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Post by notneeson on May 1, 2019 7:36:23 GMT -6
Yeah it's not at all that there's not gain reduction, it's that too much (to my ear) unattenuated signal gets through before the gain reduction kicks in. It's possible the vintage Ureis are slower like this too and the clones are too fast. I doubt it but can't say for sure. If I can get the time I may rent a Urei or two and refresh my memory while I evaluate this ADG. Agreed about the tone. I love it. It's got a lot of harmonic content but it's really elegant sounding. Recognizable from the vintage units and the records they're slathered all over. I LOVE the Rev G on acoustic guitars. And I suspect I'll love it on piano too. If we can get the attack situation sorted out, it's a helluva box. I have lots of time on an original Urei 1176LN, this description doesn’t sound familiar FWIW.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2019 8:14:45 GMT -6
Yeah it's not at all that there's not gain reduction, it's that too much (to my ear) unattenuated signal gets through before the gain reduction kicks in. It's possible the vintage Ureis are slower like this too and the clones are too fast. I doubt it but can't say for sure. If I can get the time I may rent a Urei or two and refresh my memory while I evaluate this ADG. Agreed about the tone. I love it. It's got a lot of harmonic content but it's really elegant sounding. Recognizable from the vintage units and the records they're slathered all over. I LOVE the Rev G on acoustic guitars. And I suspect I'll love it on piano too. If we can get the attack situation sorted out, it's a helluva box. I have lots of time on an original Urei 1176LN, this description doesn’t sound familiar FWIW. I’ll check here in a bit...it’s pretty easy to determine whether the attack fast/slow has been wired incorrectly...and that’s not the case. Some have mentioned they thought the 2 and 20 ratio buttons were switched, but as I posted a couple pages back, a dude had a thorough explanation of ratios and how 2 is going to attenuate before 20 so it just might “seem” to be compressing more. Anyway, Stam has said they have “slow” meters and the attacks were exactly the same as vintage boxes...but the proof is in the waveform. I posted examples of the ADG vs. UAD and you can hear the difference in how the UAD versions can suck and pump and the ADG doesn’t. I’m very much at the same point as ragan. Love the tone, and it’s still very usable - just not particularly like I would normally use an 1176. If the attack was like I was used to, it would seriously be an almost perfect box.
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Post by jeremygillespie on May 1, 2019 8:38:07 GMT -6
Correct me if I’m wrong but an 1176 has the fastest attack of any hardware compressor ever made: 20 MICROseconds. No way it lets through an uncompressed part of the signal. I’d agree with this. Even on a slow attack an 1176 is REAL fast. I get the crush or the holding things in place more by messing with the release settings and how much input I dial in when I use them 🤷♂️
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Post by ragan on May 1, 2019 8:38:30 GMT -6
The attack and release are wired correctly over here. Slower counter clockwise, faster clockwise.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2019 8:42:07 GMT -6
The attack and release are wired correctly over here. Slower counter clockwise, faster clockwise. It’s like the “throw” of the pot is wrong. Last time I checked, it seemed like I could flatten the initial transient in most ratios when the attack was all the way fast...but then come off just a little and the spike is back.
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Post by stam on May 1, 2019 8:46:01 GMT -6
This is very strange
The Wave forms on my original 1176 and several other replicas I have here all behave the exact same way on both attack and release
I will investigate again tomorrow with the team and report back
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Post by stormymondays on May 1, 2019 8:47:17 GMT -6
The slowest attack on an 1176 is 0.8 ms which should still whack pretty much any transient.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2019 8:52:43 GMT -6
This is very strange The Wave forms on my original 1176 and several other replicas I have here all behave the exact same way on both attack and release I will investigate again tomorrow with the team and report back I’ll be glad to give you any examples you need. I can send you say drums/snare etc. and then settings on my ADG and results.
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Post by ragan on May 1, 2019 9:22:12 GMT -6
It's possible it's technically starting its compressor action at the right point but it's not compressing enough, quickly enough. If you peak match the ADG and say the WA76, you can hear and see by the metering of the track (in the DAW) that the RMS value of the ADG signal is lower, making it overall quieter (again, if peaks are matched). And it's not all peaks, mostly just initial peaks when the compressor has had some time to recover. Although even with something steady like drums, the ADG is still letting more transients through.
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Post by stam on May 1, 2019 9:43:29 GMT -6
This is very strange The Wave forms on my original 1176 and several other replicas I have here all behave the exact same way on both attack and release I will investigate again tomorrow with the team and report back I’ll be glad to give you any examples you need. I can send you say drums/snare etc. and then settings on my ADG and results. John Please do email me the waveforms on drums Thanks
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Post by svart on May 1, 2019 9:53:17 GMT -6
A few notes on the 1176.. Attack time changes slightly with ratio. Higher ratios actually cause the attack to appear "slower", although it's not really acting slower, but reacting to the modified waveform differently.
Also, higher input level makes the attack times different as well since the sidechain is not variable in detection ability. Try increasing the input level more before trying the attack settings and the sidechain will "see" the signal more effectively and thus result in apparent faster reaction.
One last one, attack is faster when turned clockwise on the 1176. Lots of folks have accidentally hooked these up backwards and never known it because the attack time at slowest is still crazy fast.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2019 10:02:25 GMT -6
Yeah, slow is not crazy fast.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 1, 2019 11:28:14 GMT -6
Well hopefully josh can just measure what the actual reaction times are, and if people want faster fast, I would think it a simple mod ?
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Post by svart on May 1, 2019 12:01:18 GMT -6
Yeah, slow is not crazy fast. TWSS..
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Post by stam on May 1, 2019 12:05:27 GMT -6
It would be indeed be a very easy fix.
Problem is we are not finding the same issue, I tested these units for months before production started so I am puzzled
We will have a meeting tomorrow with the engineering team and see if we are missing something or these are some isolated cases with a wrong value component
Regardless of what it is we will fix it at no cost to anybody or everybody if there happens to be a problem
Josh
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Post by kcatthedog on May 1, 2019 12:34:35 GMT -6
Understood, if there are some wrong value components, can you tell us what to check ?
Thx!
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Post by Ward on May 1, 2019 15:06:19 GMT -6
This is very strange The Wave forms on my original 1176 and several other replicas I have here all behave the exact same way on both attack and release I will investigate again tomorrow with the team and report back I’ll be glad to give you any examples you need. I can send you say drums/snare etc. and then settings on my ADG and results. Yes please. So I can compare also.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 1, 2019 15:19:14 GMT -6
If someone shares a snare and a pic of the settings, I'll run it through too. Not in studio until Saturday though.
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Post by ragan on May 1, 2019 22:15:50 GMT -6
I only had a few minutes to play with it today but the initial transient thing wasn't bugging me as much. If I can get the time I'm gonna put together a little video to send Joshua about it.
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Post by askomiko on May 1, 2019 22:16:18 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on May 1, 2019 22:33:34 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on May 1, 2019 22:35:11 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2019 23:08:18 GMT -6
Guess I should have checked here first. Anyway, Here are pics of what I'm talking about. You can see - especially at 20:1 that the UAD plugs basically level the transients out. Each section is the same part, I recorded then dragged over, so they may not be perfectly aligned, but each section is the same part - again, just focus on the transients. This is a loud chorus of drumbus. Input is cranked to max. I just used my ears to get close on volumes - this is basically just to show that transients are slipping through more with the ADG. I did 4 examples: ADG - D, ADG - A, UAD - E, UAD - A The pics are as follows: Release is fastest in all examples ADG - D - 4:1 Slowest Attack --- 4:1 Fastest Attack --- 20:1 Slowest Attack --- 20:1 Fastest Attack ADG - A - 4:1 Slowest Attack --- 4:1 Fastest Attack --- 20:1 Slowest Attack --- 20:1 Fastest Attack UAD - E - 4:1 Slowest Attack --- 4:1 Fastest Attack --- 20:1 Slowest Attack --- 20:1 Fastest Attack UAD - A - 4:1 Slowest Attack --- 4:1 Fastest Attack --- 20:1 Slowest Attack --- 20:1 Fastest Attack
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2019 23:09:45 GMT -6
Here is a pic of just the 20:1 to show where you can really see the difference
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2019 23:12:27 GMT -6
And on snare, here is the ADG A on top and UAD A on bottom. Same pattern, 4:1 slowest ATT fastest 20:1 Slowest ATT then Fastest
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