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Post by M57 on Apr 28, 2018 8:19:58 GMT -6
This is kind of an off-shoot from the "How Many Plugs Do I Need" thread. Let's say I was considering using less plugins by going with a hybrid setup (500 series). I'd need to sell my Heritage OST-4 to trade up for more slots.
I already have a pretty nice vocal chain but I need a stereo piano/guitar chain for recording - and obviously, I'd like a processing chain for I/O once I'm ITB. Money is tight so I'm looking for the least expensive equipment that doesn't create a weak link in my existing hardware chains. My current 500 mic-pres: MP-500NW and a P-1 so let's say the bar isn't low.
These are not 500 Series but I also have a Warm WA-2A, WA76, and TB12. Here's the wish list..
With the GR and 2A I have a pretty happy vocal chain, but I'll want an all-purpose stereo compressor (drums, piano, BGVs, 2-buss etc). Can/should I consider two single channel comps that link? That would give me more flexibility say for re-tracking mono tracks. A pair of Golden Age Project Comp-554 would cost about $800 ..or am I better off staying ITB at that price-point? I'd like to keep the stereo comp under $1000 if at all possible. The Lindell Audio 77X Stereo Compressor/Limiter comes in at $750 and the elysia xpressor at $1000 - or do I absolutely need to spend more to make doing this worth the investment?
I need another mic-pre that matches one I already have - mostly for piano, so I'm thinking about getting another P1 for the job.
Does anyone want to argue that I should purchase EQs? I'm thinking of leaving these ITB. This not only saves me rack-space, but let's me allocate funds for higher quality mic-pres and/or comps and a monitor upgrade down the line. One of the things that scares the crap out of me where going hybrid is concerned is that I hate dealing with spaghetti. What do people think of the PBR8 8-Slot (with a patch-bay)? I can see myself using the stereo comp all the time for recording piano, and then of course wanting to turn around and use it for re-tracking - or is that routing that's accomplished at the interface?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 28, 2018 8:36:46 GMT -6
This is kind of an off-shoot from the "How Many Plugs Do I Need" thread. Let's say I was considering using less plugins by going with a hybrid setup (500 series). I'd need to sell my Heritage OST-4 to trade up for more slots. I already have a pretty nice vocal chain but I need a stereo piano/guitar chain for recording - and obviously, I'd like a processing chain for I/O once I'm ITB. Money is tight so I'm looking for the least expensive equipment that doesn't create a weak link in my existing chains. My current 500 mic-pres: MP-500NW and a P-1 so let's say the bar isn't low. These are not 500 Series but I also have a Warm WA-2A, WA76, and TB12. Here's the wish list.. With the GR and 2A I have a pretty happy vocal chain, but I'll want an all-purpose stereo compressor (drums, piano, BGVs, 2-buss etc). Can/should I consider two single channel comps that link? That would give me more flexibility say for re-tracking mono tracks. A pair of Golden Age Project Comp-554 would cost about $800 ..or am I better off staying ITB at that price-point? I'd like to keep the stereo comp under $1000 if at all possible. The Lindell Audio 77X Stereo Compressor/Limiter comes in at $750 and the elysia xpressor at $1000 - or do I absolutely need to spend more to make doing this worth the investment? I need another mic-pre that matches one I already have - mostly for piano, so I'm thinking about getting another P1 for the job. Does anyone want to argue that I should purchase EQs? I'm thinking of leaving these ITB. This not only saves me rack-space, but let's me allocate funds for higher quality mic-pres and/or comps and a monitor upgrade down the line. One of the things that scares the crap out of me where going hybrid is concerned is that I hate dealing with spaghetti. What do people think of the PBR8 8-Slot (with a patch-bay)? I can see myself using the stereo comp all the time for recording piano, and then of course wanting to turn around and use it for re-tracking. Adding a P1 makes sense to me if you're happy with that preamp for piano. I would buy 2 Mono compressors that link. I can definitely see times that you would want them unlinked and you would have more flexibility. I would go for a pair of Tonelux TX5C compressors. Love those. If you're interested in coming by my place and checking some stuff out, reach out and we'll get together. You could bring a piano track down and we can run it through a few different compressors. That rack/patchbay is TT, not TRS. Not sure if you currently have a batch bay, but that might sway your opinion. Some racks have DB25 connections, so you just need a couple snakes to interface with a patchbay. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 28, 2018 10:09:48 GMT -6
Have you thought about the audio scape ssl clone $650 shipped in US.
I have 3 of the new Samsung S 48 patchbays all switching on front which is nice, seem very solid.
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 28, 2018 10:31:00 GMT -6
For a stereo buss compressor i think one of the best choices for 500 gear is the Serpent Audio SB4001. Built in parallel, lots of ratio options, great timing and Side chain filtering. Under a grand too. It is just a bit more cost wise than the other SSL style compressors out there but has WAY more features and flexibility.
Your on a budget so hands down the best way to make your dollar go further is DIY. TONS of great DIY 500 kits, including racks. Our friend Jeff at CAPI makes the best bag for buck 500 rack in the US. Cremal in the UK at Total Audio Control makes the coolest 500 rack with some stellar I/O and routing options built in.
1176 kits, Hairball audios FET500s are legit.
Can't go wrong with anything by Jeff at CAPI.
Id personally get the SB4001 for buss dutys/drum bus and get a couple other mono compressors for other things. Hell a DBX 560a can be had for cheep and sounds great on bass or vocals even. Not super vibey but a great VCA compressor too.
JLM LA500a for opto duties.
Peterson at DIYRE makes some great kits, the EQP5 is totally worth the money. Awesome Pultec style compressor, get the vintage output too. His new OLA5 opto compressor will be out this summer. Can't beat his prices really and very easy kits to build.
I know it seems like a huge hill to climb but buying outboard in your position is just a matter of time and dedication. Don't sell yourself short up front, get an 11 slot rack from Jeff or Cremal. This allows you to expand easily over time buy adding modules as you go. Thats what is awesome about 500 series.
I think anything outboard is magic compared to ITB. So Eqs are still awesome to have. For a good one the BT50 by Jeff would be a great choice. Anything that goes through some op amps and transformers is going to sound better(least to me and just about everyone else). That said, for surgical stuff, can't beat the ITB options. the FabFilter Pro2 Q is probably the best for jobs like that.
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Post by drbill on Apr 28, 2018 10:36:59 GMT -6
Does anyone want to argue that I should purchase EQs? I'm thinking of leaving these ITB. With a very large hybrid mixing setup, (96 i/o) I could see your approach making sense in a smaller setup. I love the fact that you can get a lot of bang for the buck in a small footprint with the 500 series stuff. At this point, I AM moving more into hardware EQ, (the Miad's have been life changing) but it does slow me down, and until you get into the big buck EQ's, its less bang for the buck spent than going towards compressors IMO. The cheaper 500 EQ's have not really done it that much for me, although I do love my vintage 550A-1's. For me, in the 500 camp, the best pieces I've bought for a hybrid approach have been (in no particular order) : Splices, SB4001, Chroma's, API 550A's, and an LC25. I love the Moog filters, although I don't use them that much. I prefer stuff that I can find my sweet spot, and LEAVE it. Using PT trim plug's to push into the pieces as needed. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 28, 2018 11:39:29 GMT -6
Does anyone want to argue that I should purchase EQs? I'm thinking of leaving these ITB. With a very large hybrid mixing setup, (96 i/o) I could see your approach making sense in a smaller setup. I love the fact that you can get a lot of bang for the buck in a small footprint with the 500 series stuff. At this point, I AM moving more into hardware EQ, (the Miad's have been life changing) but it does slow me down, and until you get into the big buck EQ's, its less bang for the buck spent than going towards compressors IMO. The cheaper 500 EQ's have not really done it that much for me, although I do love my vintage 550A-1's. For me, in the 500 camp, the best pieces I've bought for a hybrid approach have been (in no particular order) : Splices, SB4001, Chroma's, API 550A's, and an LC25. I love the Moog filters, although I don't use them that much. I prefer stuff that I can find my sweet spot, and LEAVE it. Using PT trim plug's to push into the pieces as needed. Man i really want to get a pair of the Moog 500 delays. |
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Post by drbill on Apr 28, 2018 12:00:10 GMT -6
With a very large hybrid mixing setup, (96 i/o) I could see your approach making sense in a smaller setup. I love the fact that you can get a lot of bang for the buck in a small footprint with the 500 series stuff. At this point, I AM moving more into hardware EQ, (the Miad's have been life changing) but it does slow me down, and until you get into the big buck EQ's, its less bang for the buck spent than going towards compressors IMO. The cheaper 500 EQ's have not really done it that much for me, although I do love my vintage 550A-1's. For me, in the 500 camp, the best pieces I've bought for a hybrid approach have been (in no particular order) : Splices, SB4001, Chroma's, API 550A's, and an LC25. I love the Moog filters, although I don't use them that much. I prefer stuff that I can find my sweet spot, and LEAVE it. Using PT trim plug's to push into the pieces as needed. Man i really want to get a pair of the Moog 500 delays. Me too. But I think they are gone for good.  |
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Post by mulmany on Apr 28, 2018 12:09:55 GMT -6
I know you are asking for 500 series options... But have you considered a Silver Bullet? Buy a SB4001(or any other comp), filling up your rack, then add the LTL SB as a stereo pre/EQ/2 buss processor. You add the SB4001 to the insert of the SB. I think you would gain a more versatile setup.
I don't own the LTL SB yet, but I am pretty sure it's my next bigger purchase.
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Post by M57 on Apr 28, 2018 13:41:08 GMT -6
I know you are asking for 500 series options... But have you considered a Silver Bullet? Buy a SB4001(or any other comp), filling up your rack, then add the LTL SB as a stereo pre/EQ/2 buss processor. You add the SB4001 to the insert of the SB. I think you would gain a more versatile setup. I don't own the LTL SB yet, but I am pretty sure it's my next bigger purchase. This is a great suggestion. The SB has always been on my radar. Between the P-1 and the GR, I only have one slot left in my OST-4. I could sell the P1 to help pay for the SB - both getting the extra matching pre-amp I want AND freeing up the extra slot for the stereo comp. |
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Post by M57 on Apr 28, 2018 14:32:56 GMT -6
Adding a P1 makes sense to me if you're happy with that preamp for piano. I would buy 2 Mono compressors that link. I can definitely see times that you would want them unlinked and you would have more flexibility. I would go for a pair of Tonelux TX5C compressors. Love those. If you're interested in coming by my place and checking some stuff out, reach out and we'll get together. You could bring a piano track down and we can run it through a few different compressors. That rack/patchbay is TT, not TRS. Not sure if you currently have a batch bay, but that might sway your opinion. Some racks have DB25 connections, so you just need a couple snakes to interface with a patchbay. Adding a P-1 does make sense ..but so does selling the one I have and picking up the Silver Bullet as mulmany suggested. I do like the idea of the TX5C's. I assume they are FET 76-like. Yeah, when school's out I'll definitely be stopping by. |
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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 28, 2018 14:52:46 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure I have an xpressor demo you can try out! Its a killer piece!
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Post by drbill on Apr 28, 2018 14:56:24 GMT -6
Do not miss that the Silver Bullet is also a great stereo API or Neve mic preamp. Beyond being an AWESOME 2 Buss processor too.
If you're sticking to 500 series, the Chroma is a good alternative to the Silver Bullet.
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Post by M57 on Apr 28, 2018 15:10:04 GMT -6
Do not miss that the Silver Bullet is also a great stereo API or Neve mic preamp. Beyond being an AWESOME 2 Buss processor too. If you're sticking to 500 series, the Chroma is a good alternative to the Silver Bullet. I have lots of 19" rack space; that's not the issue. I just have it in my mind that 500 series gear gives me more bang for the buck if only because I'm only buying one power supply. Really all options are on the table. Chroma is very cool for sure, but I have always been intrigued by how the SB offers the Neve/API blend thing. Going hybrid only gives me a bunch more reasons to consider it. |
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Post by mulmany on Apr 28, 2018 15:27:04 GMT -6
I know you are asking for 500 series options... But have you considered a Silver Bullet? Buy a SB4001(or any other comp), filling up your rack, then add the LTL SB as a stereo pre/EQ/2 buss processor. You add the SB4001 to the insert of the SB. I think you would gain a more versatile setup. I don't own the LTL SB yet, but I am pretty sure it's my next bigger purchase. This is a great suggestion. The SB has always been on my radar. Between the P-1 and the GR, I only have one slot left in my OST-4. I could sell the P1 to help pay for the SB - both getting the extra matching pre-amp I want AND freeing up the extra slot for the stereo comp. I always forget the GR is 2 slots as well. The good thing about most companies these days is they offer 19" and 500 series of the same units. |
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Post by M57 on Apr 28, 2018 15:39:49 GMT -6
This is a great suggestion. The SB has always been on my radar. Between the P-1 and the GR, I only have one slot left in my OST-4. I could sell the P1 to help pay for the SB - both getting the extra matching pre-amp I want AND freeing up the extra slot for the stereo comp. I always forget the GR is 2 slots as well. The good thing about most companies these days is they offer 19" and 500 series of the same units. True - I could trade-up the GR the ME-1NV (which unfortunately isn't 19" - why??), and that would leave space for an extra P1 and a stereo comp. |
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Post by jeromemason on Apr 28, 2018 21:41:24 GMT -6
The IGS S-type is a really great SSL style buss comp and the sound great on Keys. I modded one not long ago and for $300 it had my secret sauce of opamps, removing near about all the coupling caps and turning the blend into an air band. But, that compressor stock sounds really good already, but like everything it can be tricked out to be in it's own league.
Not a big fan of doing separate comps and linking...... but, if it's keys and guitars that it's only used for it wouldn't be that big a deal. If you're going to use it for an actual buss compressor on the mix then yeah, I wouldn't do linking. Small variations or something not 100% correct on the linking function and your phantom center can get really thrown off.
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Post by Blackdawg on May 8, 2018 22:23:18 GMT -6
Man i really want to get a pair of the Moog 500 delays. Me too. But I think they are gone for good. Alas this is true.. But I will find a pair used...hopefully. Things have so much vibe and character no plugin does. Plus...the plugin recall of it is so bad ass. |
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Post by drbill on May 9, 2018 10:25:29 GMT -6
Me too. But I think they are gone for good. Alas this is true.. But I will find a pair used...hopefully. Things have so much vibe and character no plugin does. Plus...the plugin recall of it is so bad ass. As an alternative, find yourself a couple Yamaha E1010's. Or even 1. Still fairly available, still fairly cheap (in comparison to those 500 series), and they work great as soon as you deal with the +4>-10 - and -10<+4 issue. The other thing that works great for me in an "analog" vibe is - believe it or not - the Line6 Echo Pro rack mount unit. Very sweet. Super cheap used. |
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Post by john on May 9, 2018 11:05:22 GMT -6
if one were to try making a 16 channel console of 500 series units how could one rig in a few effect sends and returns. is there a chassis that has this as a feature?
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Post by mulmany on May 9, 2018 11:25:22 GMT -6
if one were to try making a 16 channel console of 500 series units how could one rig in a few effect sends and returns. is there a chassis that has this as a feature? Unfortunately this is a no man's land. Purple has a unit but it's 10ch to match their rack. If you want 8ch blocks there is nothing out there that's plug and play. |
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Post by Blackdawg on May 9, 2018 11:37:11 GMT -6
Alas this is true.. But I will find a pair used...hopefully. Things have so much vibe and character no plugin does. Plus...the plugin recall of it is so bad ass. As an alternative, find yourself a couple Yamaha E1010's. Or even 1. Still fairly available, still fairly cheap (in comparison to those 500 series), and they work great as soon as you deal with the +4>-10 - and -10<+4 issue. The other thing that works great for me in an "analog" vibe is - believe it or not - the Line6 Echo Pro rack mount unit. Very sweet. Super cheap used. hmm I check it out! Honestly Im a fan of the crappy SPX90s lol. They are so bad..they are good. Works for delay anyways. if one were to try making a 16 channel console of 500 series units how could one rig in a few effect sends and returns. is there a chassis that has this as a feature? Check out TAC 511 Advanced rack. It does Sends and returns. However, only modules with pin 7&9 i believe will do it. www.totalaudiocontrol.com/pr/show/11Im going to run 3 of these with ML2s for my "mixer". Use the send/returns for outboard gear and all sum into Jeffs new SumBus2. I ask Jeff to add pin 7 and 9 back to his cards as they were missing and thankfully he did. Nothing is routed to them but Cemal at TAC has been great to work with me and came up with a cool solution to fix it. Just waiting for the pieces to fall into place. if one were to try making a 16 channel console of 500 series units how could one rig in a few effect sends and returns. is there a chassis that has this as a feature? Unfortunately this is a no man's land. Purple has a unit but it's 10ch to match their rack. If you want 8ch blocks there is nothing out there that's plug and play. See above  |
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Post by john on May 9, 2018 15:06:47 GMT -6
ah bummer. would be great to get 2 sends/returns and a few knobs to blend them in.
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Post by mulmany on May 9, 2018 15:41:35 GMT -6
BlackdawgI think he is asking for a real aux send not an insert send. Level control and the whole nine yards. :-)
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Post by Blackdawg on May 9, 2018 15:52:18 GMT -6
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Post by Blackdawg on May 9, 2018 15:53:26 GMT -6
ah bummer. would be great to get 2 sends/returns and a few knobs to blend them in. Or there is this, not sure if it ever got made.. but pretty cool. Small but what you want. www.manamodular.com/ |
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