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Post by matt@IAA on May 9, 2018 21:13:23 GMT -6
I’ve been thinking about doing this but it really is difficult to hit any kind of price point. You quickly get into a no-man’s land, unless someone already has a bunch of 500 gear, but no console.
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Post by Tbone81 on May 9, 2018 21:31:24 GMT -6
There's the Speck LiLo mixer. I've wanted one for this very purpose but seems expensive for what it is.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 10, 2018 7:17:59 GMT -6
I’ve been thinking about doing this but it really is difficult to hit any kind of price point. You quickly get into a no-man’s land, unless someone already has a bunch of 500 gear, but no console. I met a guy who had taken an old Soundcraft 200B and had a frame and filler panels built so that the strips lined up with his 500 gear. At first I thought he was nuts then I tried to find a modular high quality line mixer without EQ that was affordable enough to do the same to no avail.
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Post by M57 on Jun 5, 2018 10:55:15 GMT -6
Any comments on the Midas L6 rack? At 6 spaces for $300 WITH routing it's hard to beat feature-wise. It comes with a handle and rack ears at that price. What's not to like? Is the power supply beefy enough?
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 5, 2018 17:34:40 GMT -6
I'd be cautious about buying any new Midas/behringer gear, just because it seems like they're really only selling the name at this point. That just me though.
Fredenstein makes some really chassis and very affordable. The Lindell racks are decent too.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 5, 2018 22:36:50 GMT -6
yeah i have a Lindell. Great for the price.
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Post by M57 on Jun 6, 2018 5:15:31 GMT -6
OK so doing some comparison shopping of 6-slot racks (Sweetwater prices).
Lindell $380 Has DB-25 connectors, which I don't really need. Also, I'm not a fan of external power supplies.
Fredenstein $300 Has Aux I/O connectors (for effects?) but I'm not clear as to how they work (post/pre? and if so, post/pre of what?) Maybe the output can be used for parallel processing?
Midas $300 - I like the design and I like that it racks. If I'm avoiding it because it's Behringer, the only argument that I can see is that it's not sturdy or perhaps there's not enough power to the rails. I mean, the thing has no sonic impact.
They all present their specs differently..
Lindell: 400mA per slot
Fredenstein: ±16V DC 1.6A, +48V DC 0.15A
Midas: 3.2A @ +/-16V and 300mA @ +48V
At 3.2A, the Midas should deliver well over 500mA per slot, right?
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 6, 2018 8:45:01 GMT -6
Just curious, but why a 6 slot?
It makes more sense to me to get a 10/11 slot one as you can always add more modules that way and price per slot is less long term.
CAPI's racks are by far the best bang for buck with one PSU powering two racks.
Also more amps isn't always better. That doesn't mean the PSU is quieter or more stable per say. There was a thread on here or GS about 500 racks and psu. Brad had some interesting insight into the PSU of some of the racks. Also there are not very many modules that pull over 200ma out there. VPR is only 175 I think..or 165..can't remember exactly. Any PSU that give over 200ma a slot is fine. Only the bigger double slot tube/opto stuff might push that power need a bit.
The Midias and Fredenstien look like the same rack. They both have switchable Compressor linking, as well as feed through to cascade modules into channel strips. Helps if you like using a certain compressor into an EQ as your vocal chain or whatever. Less wiring for you.
The Lindell has the feed switch too and if its like my 10 slot, the #6 pin is already connected which means compressors link automatically. Found that out after sticking two FET500s in mine. You can cut the trace on the PCB to get rid of this though.
The Aux part is kind of interesting. It would likely take signal form pin 7 on the module and return on pin 9. Thats how most do it. However, some modules out there don't use those pins or even have the trace on the card for it. So take that with a grain of salt as you might not even be able to use that. Lots of DIY modules don't have this feature built in. VPR compliant modules should...should..
So i guess it also depends on the features you want. Would you use the aux sends? Im a fan of DB25 wiring, makes it way cleaner and easy to wire up patch bays, keeps things clean. All of these choices should have rack ears for mounting available.
I personally don't see anything wrong with the midas myself. Its basically the same as the fredenstein. But I might be a bit worried on the PSU being quiet enough. Thats the only thing that could impart anything sonically on the modules. I haven't tried enough racks to see if it makes a huge difference on which rack the module is mounted in. Only used 3 different ones myself soon to be 4.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 6, 2018 13:09:14 GMT -6
Just curious, but why a 6 slot? It makes more sense to me to get a 10/11 slot one as you can always add more modules that way and price per slot is less long term. CAPI's racks are by far the best bang for buck with one PSU powering two racks. Also more amps isn't always better. That doesn't mean the PSU is quieter or more stable per say. There was a thread on here or GS about 500 racks and psu. Brad had some interesting insight into the PSU of some of the racks. Also there are not very many modules that pull over 200ma out there. VPR is only 175 I think..or 165..can't remember exactly. Any PSU that give over 200ma a slot is fine. Only the bigger double slot tube/opto stuff might push that power need a bit. The Midias and Fredenstien look like the same rack. They both have switchable Compressor linking, as well as feed through to cascade modules into channel strips. Helps if you like using a certain compressor into an EQ as your vocal chain or whatever. Less wiring for you. The Lindell has the feed switch too and if its like my 10 slot, the #6 pin is already connected which means compressors link automatically. Found that out after sticking two FET500s in mine. You can cut the trace on the PCB to get rid of this though. The Aux part is kind of interesting. It would likely take signal form pin 7 on the module and return on pin 9. Thats how most do it. However, some modules out there don't use those pins or even have the trace on the card for it. So take that with a grain of salt as you might not even be able to use that. Lots of DIY modules don't have this feature built in. VPR compliant modules should...should.. So i guess it also depends on the features you want. Would you use the aux sends? Im a fan of DB25 wiring, makes it way cleaner and easy to wire up patch bays, keeps things clean. All of these choices should have rack ears for mounting available. I personally don't see anything wrong with the midas myself. Its basically the same as the fredenstein. But I might be a bit worried on the PSU being quiet enough. Thats the only thing that could impart anything sonically on the modules. I haven't tried enough racks to see if it makes a huge difference on which rack the module is mounted in. Only used 3 different ones myself soon to be 4. The only advantage of a lunchbox in the long run is portability, but most of those I know who travel with them end up with cases they find to be just as much of a pain in the ass as racks.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 6, 2018 13:11:31 GMT -6
Just curious, but why a 6 slot? It makes more sense to me to get a 10/11 slot one as you can always add more modules that way and price per slot is less long term. CAPI's racks are by far the best bang for buck with one PSU powering two racks. Also more amps isn't always better. That doesn't mean the PSU is quieter or more stable per say. There was a thread on here or GS about 500 racks and psu. Brad had some interesting insight into the PSU of some of the racks. Also there are not very many modules that pull over 200ma out there. VPR is only 175 I think..or 165..can't remember exactly. Any PSU that give over 200ma a slot is fine. Only the bigger double slot tube/opto stuff might push that power need a bit. The Midias and Fredenstien look like the same rack. They both have switchable Compressor linking, as well as feed through to cascade modules into channel strips. Helps if you like using a certain compressor into an EQ as your vocal chain or whatever. Less wiring for you. The Lindell has the feed switch too and if its like my 10 slot, the #6 pin is already connected which means compressors link automatically. Found that out after sticking two FET500s in mine. You can cut the trace on the PCB to get rid of this though. The Aux part is kind of interesting. It would likely take signal form pin 7 on the module and return on pin 9. Thats how most do it. However, some modules out there don't use those pins or even have the trace on the card for it. So take that with a grain of salt as you might not even be able to use that. Lots of DIY modules don't have this feature built in. VPR compliant modules should...should.. So i guess it also depends on the features you want. Would you use the aux sends? Im a fan of DB25 wiring, makes it way cleaner and easy to wire up patch bays, keeps things clean. All of these choices should have rack ears for mounting available. I personally don't see anything wrong with the midas myself. Its basically the same as the fredenstein. But I might be a bit worried on the PSU being quiet enough. Thats the only thing that could impart anything sonically on the modules. I haven't tried enough racks to see if it makes a huge difference on which rack the module is mounted in. Only used 3 different ones myself soon to be 4. The only advantage of a lunchbox in the long run is portability, but most of those I know who travel with them end up with cases they find to be just as much of a pain in the ass as racks. If i was traveling with gear Id still rack it. The only lunch box I've seen thats portable by itself is the JLM Sidekick one and thats because it has an optional cover for it. Otherwise, none of the other racks protect the gear knobs so you still end up racking it. Might was well rack 10 of em vs 6
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 6, 2018 13:30:00 GMT -6
The only advantage of a lunchbox in the long run is portability, but most of those I know who travel with them end up with cases they find to be just as much of a pain in the ass as racks. If i was traveling with gear Id still rack it. The only lunch box I've seen thats portable by itself is the JLM Sidekick one and thats because it has an optional cover for it. Otherwise, none of the other racks protect the gear knobs so you still end up racking it. Might was well rack 10 of em vs 6 If you're thinking of making this a portable solution keep in mind how heavy 8-10 channels, in a chassis, in a rack, with other outboard gear will be. I have a 10 space fredenstein in a small 6u rack for remote gigs and that thing turned out damn heavy! Definitely a pita.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 6, 2018 13:38:21 GMT -6
If i was traveling with gear Id still rack it. The only lunch box I've seen thats portable by itself is the JLM Sidekick one and thats because it has an optional cover for it. Otherwise, none of the other racks protect the gear knobs so you still end up racking it. Might was well rack 10 of em vs 6 If you're thinking of making this a portable solution keep in mind how heavy 8-10 channels, in a chassis, in a rack, with other outboard gear will be. I have a 10 space fredenstein in a small 6u rack for remote gigs and that thing turned out damn heavy! Definitely a pita. No doubt. I'm not making a portable rig was just commenting that the Sidekick rack has a lid for it. So you would literally just have to lug that around. No matter how your play it, gear is heavy if you want to bring stuff like that. Even the stuff that's designed to be portable adds up in a hurry.
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Post by M57 on Jun 6, 2018 16:09:27 GMT -6
Portability is not the only advantage of 500 series gear. 1 Power supply is a lot cheaper than 6. Once you have just 2 or three slots filled you are saving a significant chunk of change ..30 to 40 percent and even higher in most cases.
Why 6-slot?.. I didn't think I'd need more than four when I bought my current 4-slot - so that's a good question.
Well, it's less expensive - and if I keep my 4S, I'll have a total of 10. I can't see needing any more than that, ..he said :}
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 6, 2018 16:11:07 GMT -6
Why 6-slot?.. I didn't think I'd need more than four when I bought my current 4-slot - so that's a good question. Well, it's less expensive - and if I keep my 4S, I'll have a total of 10. I can't see needing any more than that, ..he said :} Theres always more..MORREEE MOOOOOOOAAAAARRRR!!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 6, 2018 17:18:36 GMT -6
Portability is not the only advantage of 500 series gear. 1 Power supply is a lot cheaper than 6. Once you have just 2 or three slots filled you are saving a significant chunk of change ..30 to 40 percent and even higher in most cases. Why 6-slot?.. I didn't think I'd need more than four when I bought my current 4-slot - so that's a good question. Well, it's less expensive - and if I keep my 4S, I'll have a total of 10. I can't see needing any more than that, ..he said :} That’s module dependent, consider how many are using DC to DC conversion and in this day in age how many are using inexpensive wall warts for compliance and cost reasons in rack gear.
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Post by Bender on Jun 6, 2018 19:06:10 GMT -6
Why 6-slot?.. I didn't think I'd need more than four when I bought my current 4-slot - so that's a good question. Well, it's less expensive - and if I keep my 4S, I'll have a total of 10. I can't see needing any more than that, ..he said :} Theres always more..MORREEE MOOOOOOOAAAAARRRR!! Bender Agree's with Zoidberg- quite rare indeed. LOL
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 6, 2018 21:52:16 GMT -6
Theres always more..MORREEE MOOOOOOOAAAAARRRR!! Bender Agree's with Zoidberg- quite rare indeed. LOL HAHA!!
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 7, 2018 22:03:44 GMT -6
Those Hairball Elements pre's, the one that has the LA-3A front end, that's what I'd be using on guitars and keys...... If you're looking to get a smoother top on the keys I'd go with something tube, LaChapelle 583, something like that, can't go wrong having a couple of those pre's around, they work great on near about everything. The new one is single space too I believe.
For compressors, on guitars I like an 1176 not doing a ton, but set just right it'll give you some "between the strings" sound. The Hairball FET comp's would work here too, I've heard great things on them. Of course Jeffs VP28 paired with his FC526 is going to be killer too. Guitars or Keys either one of those options would be great. The Harrison filters that's in the 19" rack, I'd really like to have one of those just for guitars and keys.... Even though I'd be using them in a mixing situation, when you're tracking you can get a lot of tones from mic placement and a pair of really good filters.
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Post by M57 on Jun 8, 2018 4:22:03 GMT -6
Once you have just 2 or three slots filled you are saving a significant chunk of change ..30 to 40 percent and even higher in most cases. That’s module dependent, consider how many are using DC to DC conversion and in this day in age how many are using inexpensive wall warts for compliance and cost reasons in rack gear. True, but I hate wall warts. They may make things less expensive, but it just feels cheap to me.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 8, 2018 6:30:22 GMT -6
That’s module dependent, consider how many are using DC to DC conversion and in this day in age how many are using inexpensive wall warts for compliance and cost reasons in rack gear. True, but I hate wall warts. They may make things less expensive, but it just feels cheap to me. I won’t argue with that!
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Post by mjheck on Jun 8, 2018 9:53:21 GMT -6
Yesterday I realized I was looking for a piece of rack gear - not due to any sonic need or desire, but to keep our cat from climbing through the open slot and enjoying the analog warmth : ).
The reason I don't really want or need anything else?
The Silver Bullet and the Zulu. Those two just do everything I want. I've gotten so lazy, I've taken to mostly tracking with the Neve settings and mixing through the API settings. Im embarrassed to not be using the cascade/blend capabilities, but man - to flip back and forth from track to mix with the push of a button and no recall worries? Sometimes lazy has benefits.
All this to say, the suggestion from the previous page about the SB should not be overlooked. It is just fantastic, and crazy affordable. Should probably cost 2x or 3x given how it sounds.
MJH
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 8, 2018 10:31:46 GMT -6
Yesterday I realized I was looking for a piece of rack gear - not due to any sonic need or desire, but to keep our cat from climbing through the open slot and enjoying the analog warmth : ). The reason I don't really want or need anything else? The Silver Bullet and the Zulu. Those two just do everything I want. I've gotten so lazy, I've taken to mostly tracking with the Neve settings and mixing through the API settings. Im embarrassed to not be using the cascade/blend capabilities, but man - to flip back and forth from track to mix with the push of a button and no recall worries? Sometimes lazy has benefits. All this to say, the suggestion from the previous page about the SB should not be overlooked. It is just fantastic, and crazy affordable. Should probably cost 2x or 3x given how it sounds. MJH Penn elcom vent panel! You can send 10% of the money you don’t spend to JK to keep RGO going😁
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