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Post by the other mark williams on May 1, 2019 0:56:45 GMT -6
Well friends. It has arrived and here is my super non technical and lofi unboxing and rambling. Please don't ask me to do a shootout or compare it to any thing else. I'm no good at that type of thing. Enjoy Good to see more in the wild! I am planning to do a shootout with mine, actually, vs Heritage Elite, GAP MkIII w Zenpro Mod, and Warm 273EQ. I just need to do a bit of planning. I am thinking of the following tests: 1. 2 mic guitar cab setup with Shure Unidyne III and IV (looped performance for consistency). No EQ and/or 50hz HPF only. 2. DI passive bass with a chosen EQ setting (probably not looped because the interaction between the pickups and input is an important factor). 3. Drum processing through line inputs with EQ. 4? Possibly analog synth DI or line input EQ processing. 5? Insert test between Warm and Stam with either reverb or tape echo. What do you guys think? personally, I’d love to hear the difference on vocals and on acoustic guitar, but those are understandably a bit more difficult to pull off with few variables. I’m especially interested in the EQ around the vocal “presence” range. That’s an area a lot of plugins struggle with, and I’m curious how the various pieces of hardware handle it. But again, those comparisons are harder to pull off, so no sweat if it’s just too much to tackle.
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Post by paulthesparky on May 1, 2019 19:48:18 GMT -6
I think thats a great idea. Love the sound of mine on bass and vocals so far. Liked the sound from the Heritage preamp especially, from another shootout I come across, so a Stam comparison would be quite interesting.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2019 21:19:46 GMT -6
Is the front jack line level?
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Post by paulthesparky on May 1, 2019 22:42:05 GMT -6
Is the front jack line level? I plugged my bass straight in and managed to dial up a sound, on the 60 db mic input setting. When I push the low impedance front button, I noticed the tone changed slightly for the better, and didn't affect the overall level. If you want to input line level signals, you would just need to turn the brown gain input knob anti-clockwise to the +10db to -40 db line level gain settings. (4 o'clock to 1 o'clock)
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Post by shoe on May 2, 2019 6:37:39 GMT -6
Good to see more in the wild! I am planning to do a shootout with mine, actually, vs Heritage Elite, GAP MkIII w Zenpro Mod, and Warm 273EQ. I just need to do a bit of planning. I am thinking of the following tests: 1. 2 mic guitar cab setup with Shure Unidyne III and IV (looped performance for consistency). No EQ and/or 50hz HPF only. 2. DI passive bass with a chosen EQ setting (probably not looped because the interaction between the pickups and input is an important factor). 3. Drum processing through line inputs with EQ. 4? Possibly analog synth DI or line input EQ processing. 5? Insert test between Warm and Stam with either reverb or tape echo. What do you guys think? personally, I’d love to hear the difference on vocals and on acoustic guitar, but those are understandably a bit more difficult to pull off with few variables. I’m especially interested in the EQ around the vocal “presence” range. That’s an area a lot of plugins struggle with, and I’m curious how the various pieces of hardware handle it. But again, those comparisons are harder to pull off, so no sweat if it’s just too much to tackle. I could give it a shot using the Chandler TG mic for vocals (maybe acoustic also). I'd probably have to do all the clips individually, so probably less conaistent but hey. I suppose I could also just use them as a processor on vocals or acoustic recorded through a REDD.47 to make it so none of the units is also used for the original take. However, I think the Stam, especially, is quite nice as a vocal preamp and very different from a REDD, so it'd be good to show that.
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Post by kilroyrock on May 10, 2019 16:08:18 GMT -6
Can somebody post the innards of their unit? I have a few things I would like to compare with mine. Anyone else get the ST transistor instead of the promised Toshiba? I know it might not make a hair of difference, but now I am curious. I'm curious if design decisions changed or resistors are supposed to be missing too.
Thanks
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Post by shoe on May 11, 2019 18:12:38 GMT -6
Can somebody post the innards of their unit? I have a few things I would like to compare with mine. Anyone else get the ST transistor instead of the promised Toshiba? I know it might not make a hair of difference, but now I am curious. I'm curious if design decisions changed or resistors are supposed to be missing too. Thanks I was really debating posting about this, since I feel uncomfortable about outright criticism of another builder's product execution (though I don't make any rack gear for sale, so in this field I am just another customer). I looked inside my units as well, to see if I could find the cause of an issue I am having with my midrange control (switching frequencies also drags the boost/cut knob with it, which is not great). While I was in there, I decided to take a closer look at the circuit and parts used. I unfortunately found that, besides the transformers and, I think, the inductors and switches, the list of parts described on stam's site does not closely match what I recieved at all. In fact, it matches the list of parts that are specifically described as what should NOT be used in the unit. This is pretty upsetting to me, honestly, because I specifically ordered the unit in large part because of the described parts list. I will say, however, that the 1073MPA I have DOES match this description of the active parts (it doesn't have carbon comp resistors, either, but that doesn't particularly concern me in this voltage+current range). So, I'm actually curious to put them up head to head to see if it actually makes any difference to the sound.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 11, 2019 18:38:17 GMT -6
That’s not good
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Post by Johnkenn on May 11, 2019 18:41:16 GMT -6
Doesn’t that say 2N3055 on the part in your pic?
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Post by kilroyrock on May 11, 2019 19:05:09 GMT -6
Glad to know I'm not crazy, as the same part is missing on yours. I will say that I am confused by the change in parts
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Post by kcatthedog on May 11, 2019 19:06:37 GMT -6
Or it’s interesting, as one of the knocks on the clones is switching out parts where people say sonically it doesn’t matter: maybe they are right ?
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Post by stam on May 11, 2019 19:12:49 GMT -6
Can somebody post the innards of their unit? I have a few things I would like to compare with mine. Anyone else get the ST transistor instead of the promised Toshiba? I know it might not make a hair of difference, but now I am curious. I'm curious if design decisions changed or resistors are supposed to be missing too. Thanks I was really debating posting about this, since I feel uncomfortable about outright criticism of another builder's product execution (though I don't make any rack gear for sale, so in this field I am just another customer). I looked inside my units as well, to see if I could find the cause of an issue I am having with my midrange control (switching frequencies also drags the boost/cut knob with it, which is not great). While I was in there, I decided to take a closer look at the circuit and parts used. I unfortunately found that, besides the transformers and, I think, the inductors and switches, the list of parts described on stam's site does not closely match what I recieved at all. In fact, it matches the list of parts that are specifically described as what should NOT be used in the unit. This is pretty upsetting to me, honestly, because I specifically ordered the unit in large part because of the described parts list. I will say, however, that the 1073MPA I have DOES match this description of the active parts (it doesn't have carbon comp resistors, either, but that doesn't particularly concern me in this voltage+current range). So, I'm actually curious to put them up head to head to see if it actually makes any difference to the sound. I should clarify point by point why I made some changes in your best interest: 3) They were unobtainable and a large batch I bought had the wrong readings, unusable and I determined they were probably counterfeit. These ones worked like a charm. 4) We ended up using metalfilm capacitors instead of Ohmite carbon resistors because it sounded better to my ears (Allen Bradley NOS should be removed from that list). Again, better for our clients. 5) Same as 3 6) Those are clearly Philips (Vishay Sprague) capacitors on the audio path. The others don't pass audio. Feel free to return the unit if you feel cheated, I will cover the return shipping as I understand I made some changes for it to sound better and failed to update the site, the new site we will have 24-7 access to. Please email me if you wish to return it Josh
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Post by kilroyrock on May 11, 2019 19:45:53 GMT -6
After another builder here was straight forward about having issues with counterfeit, I'm not shocked. I trust I have a great unit, it was mostly just confusing. I'll be honest I would have bought mine either way, you had me at Sowter.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 11, 2019 19:47:48 GMT -6
Gotta say, pretty straight up response!
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Post by shoe on May 11, 2019 19:52:46 GMT -6
I was really debating posting about this, since I feel uncomfortable about outright criticism of another builder's product execution (though I don't make any rack gear for sale, so in this field I am just another customer). I looked inside my units as well, to see if I could find the cause of an issue I am having with my midrange control (switching frequencies also drags the boost/cut knob with it, which is not great). While I was in there, I decided to take a closer look at the circuit and parts used. I unfortunately found that, besides the transformers and, I think, the inductors and switches, the list of parts described on stam's site does not closely match what I recieved at all. In fact, it matches the list of parts that are specifically described as what should NOT be used in the unit. This is pretty upsetting to me, honestly, because I specifically ordered the unit in large part because of the described parts list. I will say, however, that the 1073MPA I have DOES match this description of the active parts (it doesn't have carbon comp resistors, either, but that doesn't particularly concern me in this voltage+current range). So, I'm actually curious to put them up head to head to see if it actually makes any difference to the sound. I should clarify point by point why I made some changes in your best interest: 3) They were unobtainable and a large batch I bought had the wrong readings, unusable and I determined they were probably counterfeit. These ones worked like a charm. 4) We ended up using metalfilm capacitors instead of Ohmite carbon resistors because it sounded better to my ears (Allen Bradley NOS should be removed from that list). Again, better for our clients. 5) Same as 3 6) Those are clearly Philips (Vishay Sprague) capacitors on the audio path. The others don't pass audio. Feel free to return the unit if you feel cheated, I will cover the return shipping as I understand I made some changes for it to sound better and failed to update the site, the new site we will have 24-7 access to. Please email me if you wish to return it Josh Sorry if I missed the Phillips capacitors in there. I have removed that part of my post. Thank you for clarifying the reasoning for these changes.
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Post by stam on May 11, 2019 20:15:18 GMT -6
Just sent an email to our webmaster to edit the resistors to metalfilm (Neve used them as well on the 1073's) and BC550 which is a direct replacement as the BC184 is obsolete.
I want to make it clear that every decision I make about my machines are sound and reliability oriented first, price or cost of production does not come into the equation.
I didn't have to solder all those audio grade capacitors (which are extremely expensive) into the EQ, we did not promise them on the spec list I believe
I am sorry the website is not updated, however, this does not interfere nor change the sound of the unit in anyway other than the Philips Capacitors which are there as well the Tantalum and Polystyrene ones. Motorola, ST or Toshiba 2N3055 respond the same way. BC550 is a direct replacement of BC184
We are also the only ones offering Carnhill inductors on the low end pricing which does make a big difference on the EQ.
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Post by indiehouse on May 11, 2019 20:33:40 GMT -6
Stoked to get mine.
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Post by pope on May 12, 2019 3:41:19 GMT -6
But since it uses common components and not the (original) as advertised, how different is it from the other cheap clones out there? I mean sound-wise. Obviously the transformer is different but other than that? I guess you can swap the transformer if you want anyway. Has anyone compared them to other stuff like warm, golden age or heritage?
Personally I'd be way pissed off if I was buying something different than what's advertised, lol
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Post by stam on May 12, 2019 4:14:50 GMT -6
But since it uses common components and not the (original) as advertised, how different is it from the other cheap clones out there? I mean sound-wise. Obviously the transformer is different but other than that? I guess you can swap the transformer if you want anyway. Has anyone compared them to other stuff like warm, golden age or heritage? Personally I'd be way pissed off if I was buying something different than what's advertised, lol It sounds pretty different. It is discrete, it has Philips capacitors, it has Carnhill inductors and audio grade capacitors. None of those are present on the brands you mentioned. The output transformer is 50% of the sound. You can't swap it as it is a custom part made for us.
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Post by pope on May 12, 2019 4:51:14 GMT -6
What do you mean by "discrete"? All these clones are discrete aren't they? Also, heritage, AML audio and a bunch of other 1073 clones use carnhill inductors as far I know?
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Post by Johnkenn on May 12, 2019 8:59:47 GMT -6
As Stam said, I think the majority of the tone is coming from the input and output transformers. And the Sowter sounds fantastic. While I agree it kind of sucks that it was billed one way and then not delivered that way...I don’t think the sound is affected in any intelligible way.
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Post by pope on May 12, 2019 13:45:12 GMT -6
As Stam said, I think the majority of the tone is coming from the input and output transformers. And the Sowter sounds fantastic. While I agree it kind of sucks that it was billed one way and then not delivered that way...I don’t think the sound is affected in any intelligible way. See what happened here? Stam advertised a product as "identical" to the original (down to the last component) and as the only one to be the exact copy of the OG. People pre-ordered. A year later the product is ready but different from what it was advertised and no mention whatsoever about the changes until someone pointed out. I can think of three different reasons why this happened... 1) Stam thought that by advertising the "identical" clone, people would buy it and when they find out that the product isn't what they paid for, they'll most likely not return it since it took them so long to receive it. It also sounds good, so why bother? Think about it for a moment. If he hadn't advertised it the way he did, do you believe there would be the same interest? 2) Stam advertised a product that hadn't even built (and therefore had no clue what was possible and what not) and most importantly what it sounded like compared to the OG. 3) both of the above In my book this is unethical whatever the reason is. I'm not commenting on the sound. I'm sure it sounds good but I'm also sure that it's not too different from other clones out there made by guys who were honest on what components they use and on the delivery times. But, it seems that people don't really care so at the end of the day it seems that stam is doing the right thing. Anyway, I don't want to be "that guy".
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Post by Johnkenn on May 12, 2019 13:49:24 GMT -6
As Stam said, I think the majority of the tone is coming from the input and output transformers. And the Sowter sounds fantastic. While I agree it kind of sucks that it was billed one way and then not delivered that way...I don’t think the sound is affected in any intelligible way. See what happened here? Stam advertised a product as "identical" to the original (down to the last component) and as the only one to be the exact copy of the OG. People pre-order. A year later the product is ready but different from what it was advertised and no mention whatsoever about the changes until someone pointed out. I can think of three different possibilities.. 1) Stam thought that by advertising the "identical" clone, people would buy it and when they find out that the product isn't what they paid for, they'll most likely not bother returning it back since it took them so long to receive it. It also sounds good, so why bother? Think about it for a moment. If he hadn't advertised it the way he did, do you believe there would be the same interest? 2) Stam advertised a product that hadn't even built and therefore had no clue what was possible and what not. 3) both of the above In my book this is unethical whatever the reason is. I'm not commenting on the sound. I'm sure it sounds good but I'm also sure that it's not too different from other clones out there by guys who were honest on what components they use and on the delivery times. But, it seems that people don't really care so at the end of the day it seems that stam is doing the right thing Anyway, I don't want to be "that guy". I agree. Shitty planning and worse communication. We all have the ability to buy or not buy.
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Post by pope on May 12, 2019 13:54:04 GMT -6
Well that's the point. Maybe it's not "shitty planning" In fact, it's a clever way of making people order. Anyway...
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Post by stam on May 12, 2019 14:02:24 GMT -6
As Stam said, I think the majority of the tone is coming from the input and output transformers. And the Sowter sounds fantastic. While I agree it kind of sucks that it was billed one way and then not delivered that way...I don’t think the sound is affected in any intelligible way. See what happened here? Stam advertised a product as "identical" to the original (down to the last component) and as the only one to be the exact copy of the OG. People pre-ordered. A year later the product is ready but different from what it was advertised and no mention whatsoever about the changes until someone pointed out. I can think of three different reasons why this happened... 1) Stam thought that by advertising the "identical" clone, people would buy it and when they find out that the product isn't what they paid for, they'll most likely not return it since it took them so long to receive it. It also sounds good, so why bother? Think about it for a moment. If he hadn't advertised it the way he did, do you believe there would be the same interest? 2) Stam advertised a product that hadn't even built (and therefore had no clue what was possible and what not) and most importantly what it sounded like compared to the OG. 3) both of the above In my book this is unethical whatever the reason is. I'm not commenting on the sound. I'm sure it sounds good but I'm also sure that it's not too different from other clones out there made by guys who were honest on what components they use and on the delivery times. But, it seems that people don't really care so at the end of the day it seems that stam is doing the right thing. Anyway, I don't want to be "that guy". 1) No. That would be extremely unethical. And yes, there would have been the same interest. 95% of our orders comes from the work of dissecting matching the LO1166. Not an identical transistor. 2) No. We had built it. We had not mass produced it and when we got the Toshiba's we did not like them. Again, probably counterfeit, they were unusable. So yes, poor planing on my side. 3) None of the above If you have not tried it you should not comment "I am sure that it's not too different from other clones". It is very different. What happened here is that I was too busy to update the website and honestly forgot about it. I make decisions based on my ears and functionality, my clients trust me blindly, my 1073 has won (as in being chosen the best sounding one) on every single shootout and is also the closest one engineering wise to an original Neve 1073 There is no difference with the original component wise. BC550 is the same as BC184 and the original also used metalfilm resistors. You are creating a fuzz about something that is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it should have been informed and nobody would have said anything. Getting something different than announced that sounds exactly the same is a problem? I could have used the counterfeit Toshiba's and said nothing, I lost all that money and it was the right thing to do. I have said enough of this subject, whoever wants to return it please do so, I will pay for shipping as well as it was my mistake to not update the website, we have quite a big list of guys that will be happy to take them from us. Stam Audio is an artisan company, we are artisans trying to professionalize, we don't have manuals nor images on boxes and we make things by hand, we are not as organized as other companies but that very same liberty allows for doing things differently, hence the amount of sales we get.
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