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Post by guitfiddler on Apr 3, 2018 17:45:36 GMT -6
Yes...Please share your experiences with the B2 ADC/DAC and other Burl products as well!
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Post by notneeson on Apr 3, 2018 18:56:11 GMT -6
I find with the Bomber, I like to run it on about the cleanest setting possible or it can be a bit much on a mix.
Have mixed a few songs using the Mothership and it sounds great.
But, personally I still get plenty of use out of blue and silver 192s and converters don’t really tempt my wallet much.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 3, 2018 20:27:37 GMT -6
roundbadge - we’ve discussed this before, but the input level is after the input transformers, right? The knob only sets the level goin into the AD, right? So the only way to control coloration is to push or pull back how hard you hit it going in...
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Post by spindrift on Apr 3, 2018 21:21:32 GMT -6
I find with the Bomber, I like to run it on about the cleanest setting possible or it can be a bit much on a mix. Have mixed a few songs using the Mothership and it sounds great. But, personally I still get plenty of use out of blue and silver 192s and converters don’t really tempt my wallet much. ^^^ THIS. I try to get the coloration I want on the way in to my RADAR with the analog shizzle....then add the finishing touches in the mix. The idea of having my recorder/playback add yet another flavor or color starts wiggin’ me out man. I just want my recorder/playback device to faithfully capture and repro what I recorded. Come to think of it, my RADAR Studio converters are literally 17 years old according to my original RADAR 24 unit’s build date. They still sound phenomenal. |
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Post by ragan on Apr 3, 2018 22:26:19 GMT -6
roundbadge - we’ve discussed this before, but the input level is after the input transformers, right? The knob only sets the level goin into the AD, right? So the only way to control coloration is to push or pull back how hard you hit it going in... Yeah, the Burl let’s you attenuate, that’s all. So the gain is provided by the device before it. I miss my B2 Bomber. I listen to those tracks now and there’s a sound to them I can’t get any other way (I’ve tried). But for me and my limited budget, it was just too much coin to have tied up in 2 channels of ADC. I’m almost certain I’ll buy another one though. I just like that thing a lot. |
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Post by guitfiddler on Apr 4, 2018 9:13:02 GMT -6
Interesting after talking to a few people, waiting on Burl to contact me. There is a sound(color) to the Burl stuff. Curious to hear it.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 4, 2018 9:36:09 GMT -6
For a while I had my bla modded apollo, b2 and 2192 here, did some clips I’ll see if I can find them.
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Post by bartacusad on Apr 5, 2018 7:14:15 GMT -6
I love the B2 Bomber ADC. I’ve only been able to compare it to the Avid HD I/O converters and the Apogee Rosetta but the biggest difference for me is that the Burl just sounded wider and had more depth than those two. I’ve never wanted for anything else on that side of things. I’m researching D/A now.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Apr 5, 2018 8:28:25 GMT -6
Yep, still got my ole B2. Use it almost all the time for tracking and bouncing.
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Post by drsax on Apr 5, 2018 8:42:50 GMT -6
Love the B2 ADC. It’s my go to here. Wish I had 16 more channels of Burl
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Post by roundbadge on Apr 17, 2018 19:01:30 GMT -6
The B2 is great.
Theres that weight and solidness I haven’t heard in other AD’s.(I also have Avid I/O’s).
The only thing is it does round transients/detail off a tad even at lower inputs.
for my purposes (after a few years w Burl) tracking with the mothership is enough.
Hitting it again through the B2 w all the other outboard stuff at mix is for me,too much of a good thing.
I’m getting the new cranesong hedd quantum and dangerous boxes in here in the next couple weeks for a test vs B2.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 17, 2018 19:02:42 GMT -6
The B2 is great. Theres that weight and solidness I haven’t heard in other AD’s.(I also have Avid I/O’s). The only thing is it does round transients/detail off a tad even at lower inputs. for me (after a few years w Burl)is tracking with the mothership is enough. Hitting it again through the B2 w all the other outboard stuff at mix is for me,too much of a good thing. I’m getting the new cranesong hedd quantum and dangerous boxes in here in the next couple weeks for a test vs B2. I really want to hear that Cranesong... |
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Post by roundbadge on Apr 17, 2018 19:39:45 GMT -6
The B2 is great. Theres that weight and solidness I haven’t heard in other AD’s.(I also have Avid I/O’s). The only thing is it does round transients/detail off a tad even at lower inputs. for me (after a few years w Burl)is tracking with the mothership is enough. Hitting it again through the B2 w all the other outboard stuff at mix is for me,too much of a good thing. I’m getting the new cranesong hedd quantum and dangerous boxes in here in the next couple weeks for a test vs B2. I really want to hear that Cranesong... I’ll keep ya’ll posted when it arrives. I’ve heard good things about the new danger convert stuff as well.shootout time. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 17, 2018 20:34:04 GMT -6
But the Cranesong uses words like Quantum. Must be better...
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Post by roundbadge on Apr 17, 2018 20:46:37 GMT -6
But the Cranesong uses words like Quantum. Must be better... Always.especially if you add a “MKII” after. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 17, 2018 21:27:11 GMT -6
I predict someone's gonna take the OPPO idea of a giant killing super high end converter at $399, and do a $799 A/D-D/A that rivals the best.
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Post by illacov on Apr 19, 2018 6:05:07 GMT -6
I predict someone's gonna take the OPPO idea of a giant killing super high end converter at $399, and do a $799 A/D-D/A that rivals the best. I agree wholeheartedly. The design philosophy for using transformers with converters is well documented and plentifully. Recently Rupert Neve and Steinberg teamed up to make 2 and 4 channel transformer coupled converters at this price point. Worth looking into, but I'm more interested in 8 channel devices. Thanks -L. |
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Post by svart on Apr 19, 2018 6:17:29 GMT -6
I predict someone's gonna take the OPPO idea of a giant killing super high end converter at $399, and do a $799 A/D-D/A that rivals the best. Already did that. Sold 30 of them. |
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Post by illacov on Apr 19, 2018 6:35:30 GMT -6
I predict someone's gonna take the OPPO idea of a giant killing super high end converter at $399, and do a $799 A/D-D/A that rivals the best. Already did that. Sold 30 of them. Svart is it particularly challenging to utilize a transformer in lieu of the anti-aliasing filter? Aside from sourcing the appropriate transformer, what other issues present themselves? Converter quality? Thanks -L. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 19, 2018 7:16:07 GMT -6
Svart, I thought you only made a DAC, not a A/D converter.
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Post by svart on Apr 19, 2018 7:29:22 GMT -6
Already did that. Sold 30 of them. Svart is it particularly challenging to utilize a transformer in lieu of the anti-aliasing filter? Aside from sourcing the appropriate transformer, what other issues present themselves? Converter quality? Thanks -L. Transformer AS the anti-aliasing filter? You'd want to use it as the input matching, as well as the gain matching for the input too I suppose, right? Sure you could do that. You'd need to characterize your chosen transformer for rolloff to match your anti-aliasing curve. You'd then tweak the loading a little to minimize ringing and dial in your rolloff a little better. Transformers are inherently easy to use with A/D converters, and I use them all the time in my RF work. The issue that I see is that the "transformer sound" is not necessarily inherent to the transformer itself. There are super clean transformers that don't impart much sonic footprint, and there are ones that do, and those sonics are from the components of the signal that people tend to try to avoid, like THD, ringing, nonlinearity of phase/impedance/etc.. So it'd be shooting yourself in the foot to design a super clean converter, and then try to dirty it up again, much like some folks are talking about the "Burl sound" being a bit much to have on everything, all the time. I'd still prefer to design a secondary box with some kind of variable transformer distortion method so that folks could plug that box in when they wanted, and unplug when they didn't. |
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Post by svart on Apr 19, 2018 7:33:23 GMT -6
Svart, I thought you only made a DAC, not a A/D converter. Nope it was both. A/D using PCM4222 and D/A using dual PCM1794 for 800$. I originally planned on selling each separately, but only one person bought a single DAC, and then quickly upgraded to the whole thing, so I only sold them as a whole ADDA unit. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 19, 2018 8:29:15 GMT -6
Martin I thought you tried it out?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 19, 2018 8:43:19 GMT -6
I did, but it's been a long time, and as far as I remembered, I thought it was only D/A, am I wrong?
I remember it was a definite improvement, but similar to the way a better clock sounds, better, but not a game changer. I wonder if that OPPO DAC makes a bigger difference.
Svart, you know these things from the inside out, would a converter with parts and design quality at the level of the OPPO be able to be made with both A/D - D/A under $800?
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Post by svart on Apr 19, 2018 9:02:09 GMT -6
I did, but it's been a long time, and as far as I remembered, I thought it was only D/A, am I wrong? I remember it was a definite improvement, but similar to the way a better clock sounds, better, but not a game changer. I wonder if that OPPO DAC makes a bigger difference. Svart, you know these things from the inside out, would a converter with parts and design quality at the level of the OPPO be able to be made with both A/D - D/A under $800? No, it was both. I never sent out a prototype of only a DAC. I shamelessly say that I had top of the line design and implementation in my box, the best of what was available to me at the time.. and what everyone asked me to use. I also think that any difference at these levels of quality that you might hear are just the difference in the sound of the converter ICs used. Some people like the sound of the BurrBrown designs, some like the ESS designs, it's all a matter of taste. That being said, I don't know what's in the OPPO aside from checking out their internal pics, which looks well designed and in line with what I'd do except that they use a LOT of switching power supplies in their design (which i'd minimize for cost and noise). I'd guess by the pics that they're probably in the ballpark of 300$-400$ COGS (cost of goods sold) which means that technically yes a total conversion package could be sold for 800$ by sharing a lot of internal resources, but with little profit. |
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