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Post by mrholmes on Mar 28, 2018 6:05:10 GMT -6
RGOs
A friend brought me files tracked on one of those famous SSL E consoles. To my taste and ear everthing that has top end sounds hard, harsh and needs EQ in the mix.
If that is the famous SSL sound AE rave about?
Would like to leran something by the old dogs here.
In short I dont like taht sound! Are there other AE which say no thanks to this sound??
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Post by svart on Mar 28, 2018 6:22:10 GMT -6
That's not my experience. I found them to be a bit more "dull" than those tracked through other consoles.
Do you know how it was tracked through the console? Internal preamps?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 28, 2018 8:04:05 GMT -6
It's not the SSL. Every time I've been around one, its sound might be described as huge and muscular, with an extremely balanced sound at all frequencies. That might make it seem dull to some, because it's not hyping anything in particular, but dull would not be the way I'd describe it. I'd call it huge, with great detail and balance.
I haven't been around SSL's for any extended length of time though. Besides doing some of my own work, I was a guest on mixing sessions for James Blunt and Neo, and it was just spectacular, I can't think of a fault or complaint to voice.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 28, 2018 8:19:33 GMT -6
Seems to me like either the console was in need of some work (All E's need work these days for the most part unless they've been well maintained), or the tracking engineer was having some... issues.
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Post by svart on Mar 28, 2018 8:34:01 GMT -6
It's not the SSL. Every time I've been around one, its sound might be described as huge and muscular, with an extremely balanced sound at all frequencies. That might make it seem dull to some, because it's not hyping anything in particular, but dull would not be the way I'd describe it. I'd call it huge, with great detail and balance. I haven't been around SSL's for any extended length of time though. Besides doing some of my own work, I was a guest on mixing sessions for James Blunt and Neo, and it was just spectacular, I can't think of a fault or complaint to voice. I guess "dull" was a poor choice of words, but I did mean more like there was nothing in particular that stood out, unlike using something like an API or Neve, where the flavor of the console is readily apparent.
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Post by drsax on Mar 28, 2018 8:41:08 GMT -6
An SSL won’t save poorly recorded tracks. They aren’t known for killer preamps. It is common for records to tracked through Neve or API and mixed on SSL.
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 28, 2018 11:48:19 GMT -6
I worked on a 6000e for several years, the recording ability of those boards are not what they are great for. When you mix files from an API or Neve through it, that's when that console comes to life.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 28, 2018 13:30:08 GMT -6
So, that makes me wonder how close it would sound if a guy in an apartment or in a basement, tracked with a Neve or API preamp and then mixed the tracks on a Softube Console 1.
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Post by notneeson on Mar 28, 2018 14:54:26 GMT -6
So, that makes me wonder how close it would sound if a guy in an apartment or in a basement, tracked with a Neve or API preamp and then mixed the tracks on a Softube Console 1. You have to qualify your statement... Really hard to get a great drum sound in a basement or apartment. Although, I love me some Exile on Main Street.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 28, 2018 14:58:58 GMT -6
Good point notneeson. I use Toontracks Superior Drummer, and on occasion, an online drummer like our own Hakan @ drumrec.
I think it would be fun to see how close the Console 1 can get.
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Post by notneeson on Mar 28, 2018 15:20:08 GMT -6
Good point notneeson. I use Toontracks Superior Drummer, and on occasion, an online drummer like our own Hakan @ drumrec. I think it would be fun to see how close the Console 1 can get. And your stuff sounds great! But as I’m sure you have noticed in your career, real studio live rooms are the business, and also tend to be home to great consoles. FWIW, I mixed a great sounding record cut on the SSL at Different Fur, but I’m not sure how much of it used the console pres. Funny story, the singer had a tremendous lisp and at first I was like, “darn the tracking engineer really de-essed the crap out of these vocals.”
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Post by svart on Mar 28, 2018 15:32:21 GMT -6
So, that makes me wonder how close it would sound if a guy in an apartment or in a basement, tracked with a Neve or API preamp and then mixed the tracks on a Softube Console 1. The real 4K SSL sound happens when you push it. Gotta wonder how much they're able to emulate nonlinear distortions in analog circuitry.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 28, 2018 18:16:08 GMT -6
So, that makes me wonder how close it would sound if a guy in an apartment or in a basement, tracked with a Neve or API preamp and then mixed the tracks on a Softube Console 1. The real 4K SSL sound happens when you push it. Gotta wonder how much they're able to emulate nonlinear distortions in analog circuitry. First off all thanks for the answers. I guess they used the internal mic pres? I have to ask! Steven Slate claims also to get the nonlinear distortions in the VCC right. It should be easy for long time SSL users to proof if they like what they hear. All I can say sometimes pushing the mixbus works great with the VCC and other times it sounds like a circular saw. Sometimes it opens the mix up, the next time it makes it smaller....
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 28, 2018 20:38:35 GMT -6
I've often found Slate plugs to be hit or miss, and the UAD stuff consistent. I have no idea why. In Slate's VBC, sometime the "Mu" style compressor they designed opens the track up better than a Clariphonic, and other times it cuts the balls of the track right out.
It is telling that there isn't a cottage industry of SSL preamp clones. Neve and API style clones are ubiquitous and I'm sure Trident style pres are around as well. There are even some who like modded Yamaha pres from their PCM consoles.
Or is it that SSL's can't be copied without infringement yet?
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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 28, 2018 21:03:49 GMT -6
I think they just aren’t known for their pres, which is a shame because the newer ones are quite good. The ones on the 9k, Duality, and AWS are fantastic preamps, and get a lot of flack, but I almost feel like people are listening with their eyes and not their ears.
No, they don’t sound like a Neve or an API, but that’s not the point. They aren’t supposed to sound like those things.
What they are is super high fi, deep, open, and clean. If you don’t want that sound, then you’ll have some issues with them. But if that’s the sound you want, you’re sure as hell not getting it from a Neve.
The Console 1 stuff is cool and does a pretty good emulation of the EQ. I don’t particularly dig the knobs, but that’s just me. It doesn’t however make it sound like you’re going through a console at mix time. So far the closest and cheapest thing I’ve heard is the Sigma (which I like a LOT).
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 28, 2018 21:18:21 GMT -6
Great post Jeremy. I remember the SSL9000 preamps sounded much better than the vintage Neve preamps we tried.
* I spent a great afternoon with Jeremy at the wonderful Barbershop Studios two summers back. We compared a bunch of classic vintage mics using the SSL pres. When the first group was finished, we tried the same acoustic guitar/vocal though the vintage Neve pre, and it was no contest, the SSL was much more preferable. Jeremy's description is a good one, Hi Fi, deep, open and clean. Hi Fi to me means being able to listen comfortably without sacrificing detail.
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Post by notneeson on Mar 29, 2018 7:53:04 GMT -6
I often come back to this thought: The Bends was recorded partly on an API and partly on an SSL.
All of it sounds like Radiohead.
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Post by Ward on Mar 29, 2018 8:14:22 GMT -6
An SSL won’t save poorly recorded tracks. They aren’t known for killer preamps. It is common for records to tracked through Neve or API and mixed on SSL. I was going to type the same exact thing!! Thanks for saving me the time, The magic of an SSL is the 'crunch' and that comes from mixing on one!!
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Post by jimwilliams on Mar 29, 2018 11:10:15 GMT -6
Welcome to the SSL sound. It's a filter combined with a harmonic generator, a nice way of saying "fuzz tone". I recall one SSL I serviced 20 odd years ago. The owners were playing that Titanic song over the monitors. They had me mod one channel of the monitor path to "see" if it made any differences.
Then, all of a sudden a bell tree pops out of the modified channel. It was not there on the stock channel. The owner asks, "what's THAT"!
I told him that was the food your SSL has been chewing for you.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,012
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Post by ericn on Mar 29, 2018 11:24:59 GMT -6
The wasn’t a console people bought for the sound at the time it was the features that made it what it is!
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 29, 2018 12:29:55 GMT -6
Welcome to the SSL sound. It's a filter combined with a harmonic generator, a nice way of saying "fuzz tone". I recall one SSL I serviced 20 odd years ago. The owners were playing that Titanic song over the monitors. They had me mod one channel of the monitor path to "see" if it made any differences. Then, all of a sudden a bell tree pops out of the modified channel. It was not there on the stock channel. The owner asks, "what's THAT"! I told him that was the food your SSL has been chewing for you. This one teached me something...thanks Jim and Happy Easter.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 29, 2018 17:25:41 GMT -6
The wasn’t a console people bought for the sound at the time it was the features that made it what it is! That explains why all those CLA mixes sound harsh and hard like crazy. He ads top like there is no tomorrow. If you crank that mix in the end you get the feel someone cuts your ear-drums.
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Post by svart on Mar 29, 2018 17:59:21 GMT -6
The wasn’t a console people bought for the sound at the time it was the features that made it what it is! That explains why all those CLA mixes sound harsh and hard like crazy. He ads top like there is no tomorrow. If you crank that mix in the end you get the feel someone cuts your ear-drums. They don't bother my ears too much. Also don't let Jims opinion sway you too much. The SSL consoles, even the older ones have plenty of bandwidth, into the 125khz+ range. They have good impulse response and low distortion. Plenty clean enough if you don't drive then hard into the mix bus.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 29, 2018 19:55:21 GMT -6
I was in a room with Steven Slate, Alex Oana and Alan Sides and then CLA walked in. We were listening to one of my mixes, enjoying Alan Side's new monitor speakers. Then CLA popped on a new mix he'd just finished, and he cranked the living shit out of it, I mean really really frickin LOUD, just annoying as hell loud, all the while grinning like the cheshire cat.
God knows what shape his ears are in, but maybe he needs it like that to hear anything.
It was balanced but hard. I don't know if the hardness was from the SSL or just his mix.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 29, 2018 22:08:20 GMT -6
There are so many fantastic and clean mixes done on SSL consoles. The idea that because CLA pushes his E into a harsh spot so all SSL consoles are harsh is pretty silly.
Honestly, an E sounds pretty great for Rock when you push it. The J and K just straight up fold on themselves when pushed. But if you know the sweet spot, you aren’t going to get anywhere close come Mix time with anything else.
How about any of Spike’s mixes? I can’t imagine finding something to complain about in anything he’s done on his.
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