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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 29, 2018 22:10:44 GMT -6
I was in a room with Steven Slate, Alex Oana and Alan Sides and then CLA walked in. We were listening to one of my mixes, enjoying Alan Side's new monitor speakers. Then CLA popped on a new mix he'd just finished, and he cranked the living shit out of it, I mean really really frickin LOUD, just annoying as hell loud, all the while grinning like the cheshire cat. God knows what shape his ears are in, but maybe he needs it like that to hear anything. It was balanced but hard. I don't know if the hardness was from the SSL or just his mix. I’m fairly certain I had just left that room when CLA was about to walk in. A buddy and I saw him coming and made a quick escape haha. We knew what was coming and that there wasn’t enough Room in there for us and his ego.
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Post by donr on Mar 29, 2018 23:02:08 GMT -6
There are so many fantastic and clean mixes done on SSL consoles. The idea that because CLA pushes his E into a harsh spot so all SSL consoles are harsh is pretty silly. Honestly, an E sounds pretty great for Rock when you push it. The J and K just straight up fold on themselves when pushed. But if you know the sweet spot, you aren’t going to get anywhere close come Mix time with anything else. How about any of Spike’s mixes? I can’t imagine finding something to complain about in anything he’s done on his. How about the classic '80's Bob Clearmountain mixes? What'd he use? Sounds musical to me. I think ITB Slate VCC E mixes benefit from the plugin, as rounding and glue, even as I may use Trident or API on certain channels. The 2 bus and most tracks are generally VCC E. I don't push levels too hard, you can hear it get less euphonic as you punish it, as just every digital plugin does. There's always a sweet spot, and gain staging ITB with digital does not yet have a clear road map.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 30, 2018 8:56:30 GMT -6
My benchmark vocal sounds are Lyle Lovette's "Road Ensenada". and lately, Dierks Bentley's "Home".
I know Ensenada was done with a black U67 on voice and a C24 on guitar through custom Massenberg pres and converters. I don't know anything about Bentley's sound on that track, but I'd guess it's a U47. Anyone know anything about that?
When Jeremy described the SSL sound as "super Hi-Fi, deep, open and clean", that would be how I describe Lovett's sound on that record.
I was at recording sessions of Neo and James Blunt using a gigantic SSL, I guess it was a 9000 series, but it was as big or bigger than the one Jeremy uses. Neo tracked five songs, and James Blunt tracked 5 songs on it for a broadcast. I stayed for the mixing sessions, and the sound was as good as anything I've ever heard, all due respect to Jim Williams, but it sure didn't sound like a "fuzz tone" ;-)
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 30, 2018 19:15:00 GMT -6
You have to remember when the 4K first came out it was like an analog DAW, you had Dynamics, filters on every ch all this cool bussing snapshot and fader automation! A lot of the sound is what parts you use and how you drive it. It was almost 10 years before people were talking and excepting the sonics, they sold at first because they saved time between sessions and remember that was when studios were in demand 24/7!!
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 25, 2018 15:53:46 GMT -6
Jeremy, I just realized from re-reading your post, that you must of been in that room with me when I was playing my mixes!
I think we might have even spoken for a few seconds, even though we didn’t know each other then
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Post by adamjbrass on May 26, 2018 4:52:26 GMT -6
people tend to ruin the sound WAYYY more than any of the gear, by itself.
And this is coming from a person who doesn’t like “the SSL sound”
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Post by Guitar on May 27, 2018 11:42:27 GMT -6
I love the CLA stories!
Smashing Pumpkins - "Machina" was mixed on an SSL and I love that record. Some of the Andy Wallace stuff is almost untouchable, Grace, Nevermind, RATM, etc.
My close friend is an engineer at Omega Studios in MD, and they used to have this big, beautiful SSL. Apparently it caught on fire and caused a huge amount of damage, so they had to extract it from the room. Sort of an unglamorous ending for such an iconic piece of gear. I think Radiohead cut a demo or a B-side in there sometime in the '90s. Omega has a lot of impressive credits but these days it's more of an audio school than a proper studio.
I use the SSL EQ and the bus compressor pretty frequently, in the box. UAD is my favorite version. My favorite thing about it is how "fast" it is. I find I can get where I want pretty rapidly, on nearly any source. Setting the bus compressor properly is also pretty brainless. 4:1, slowest attack, fastest release, no more than 4 dB of reduction on the loudest parts. It's great on drum bus, too. Cytomic The Glue is a good native version, but I do prefer the UAD over all the others. Ableton comes with The Glue, nice touch.
In general, I like a 4 band EQ with Q and HPF, LPF filters. The SSL almost seems like the last major step in evolution of a hardware channel strip before stepping into digital. That's sort of how it seems to be historically, if I'm not mistaken anyway.
The UAD Unison SSL preamp is also pretty excellent, one of their best. I also find the "legacy" plugins to be nearly as good as the newer versions, and they are much lighter on DSP.
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Post by jimwilliams on May 27, 2018 12:39:11 GMT -6
You have to remember when the 4K first came out it was like an analog DAW, you had Dynamics, filters on every ch all this cool bussing snapshot and fader automation! A lot of the sound is what parts you use and how you drive it. It was almost 10 years before people were talking and excepting the sonics, they sold at first because they saved time between sessions and remember that was when studios were in demand 24/7!! That's pretty much how folks saw them at AES when they came out. Convenience 'trumps' quality, you could save and recall everything for later fixin'/mixin'. Overpaid, indulgent rock bands taking 6 months to produce records and film studios were the target audience. Today film lots use cheap digital DAW's and rock bands are poor.
No one picked them for their sound, I believe that's what created the outboard mic preamp market as I began carrying those with me around at about the same time. Much of the 4k sound is from the dbx 202 can VCA's used on each channel and the stereo mix buss. That adds a .2% THD grind to each track, worse if you push them.
One of the best examples of that sound for comparison purposes is Pink Floyd's "A Momentary Lapse of Reason", released in the 1980's and tracked/mixed on the 4k. The original CD release is full of that SSL sonic grind, it's a mess. So much so even Pink Floyd hated it. So they remixed it on a SSL with "ultimation" moving faders. That later release is a stark contrast to the original VCA version, if you can find one.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 28, 2018 11:06:12 GMT -6
Jim's right, SSL had the first console automation that worked. This meant mixing by committees of suits which meant it was a mandatory purchase. End of story.
A lot of people replaced their MCI 500s with SSLs. Everyone I know considered it a giant step down. The MCIs had been a step down from API which had been a step down from Quad-Eight and Electrodyne. Us old pfharts roll our eyes when people rave about SSL and even Neve.
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Post by schmalzy on May 29, 2018 8:43:50 GMT -6
Us old pfharts roll our eyes when people rave about SSL and even Neve. You old guys even spell "farts" with more warmth...those Electrodynes must have sounded awesome!
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 29, 2018 9:16:39 GMT -6
Not as awesome as the tube consoles that were built in the studio shop from Altec or Langevin gain stages. I started out in the very tail-end of that era.
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Post by svart on May 29, 2018 9:30:51 GMT -6
I once walked in on a student session on a brand new 9K.. It was AWFUL. Everything was either completely muddy, or crackling distorted. Lots of patched outboard preamps and gear.
And then I went to a session of a pro who used one for a decade.. Pristine and clear and punchy, without much outboard gear at all. Sounded like a finished record after an hour of work.
It may not have been a 4K, but it goes to show that the tools can produce only what the user can provide for.
Unfounded gear bashing is a trend that everyone loves to jump on these days, especially when either business revenue or nostalgia are threatened, or when someone needs to feel that their minor investment in gear can trump professional outfitting. People love that feeling of getting away with murder.
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Post by jimwilliams on May 29, 2018 9:59:24 GMT -6
SSL's rep was well deserved. It solved a problem. It didn't offer sonic bliss. Yes, some bash gear they don't like. Some offer a service to fix those sonic issues.
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