ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,940
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Post by ericn on Mar 23, 2018 15:40:03 GMT -6
The merits of a good design only get one so far in business. A lot of it just comes down to marketing. In this industry people are often skeptical of affordable prices. If it's super expensive it must be good right? For a business owner this psychology is appealing (I'll take selling $3k items to 100 people over $300 items to 1000 people any day). As a consumer...I'd rather search for the hidden gem at an unbelievable price point and then judge it for myself. Which in this case I did. Brad Marketing, distribution, getting it to the right reviewers all very important, much easier in the world of consumer stuff much easier than pro!
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Post by jdc on Mar 24, 2018 5:57:08 GMT -6
I have a pair of hifiman he400i at 35ohms, I'm guessing those should sound great through this
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 27, 2018 16:00:51 GMT -6
It states this thing has a jitter measurement of 100 Femto...... That's crazy! jimwilliams Is this the newest ESS chip?? The number seems familiar when I was researching their newest technology. Good find! Jerome Mason
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Post by svart on Mar 27, 2018 17:15:06 GMT -6
It states this thing has a jitter measurement of 100 Femto...... That's crazy! jimwilliams Is this the newest ESS chip?? The number seems familiar when I was researching their newest technology. Good find! Jerome Mason Depends on if it's actual measurements, or if it's assumed due to division.. Dividing a clock signal down that has a constant period jitter will make it better, but not on the scale of the division. A division of 2 will likely only yield 25% better jitter, etc. If the jitter is deterministic (it's the same from cycle to cycle), then division doesn't necessarily reduce the output jitter at min/max from the RMS value, but makes it smaller in comparison to the length of the cycle, which will improve cycle-to-cycle performance. If it's random, then not much helps besides averaging the clock signal. On my ADC converter I used a clocking device meant for RF devices with ~2ps RMS period jitter, which the ADC chip internally divided by 128-512 based on the intended sampling rate, likely resulting in lower internal jitter. It also only had (typ) 600fs of phase jitter.
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Post by winetree on Mar 27, 2018 18:48:11 GMT -6
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Post by jimwilliams on Mar 29, 2018 11:03:48 GMT -6
This box uses the newest ESS 9038 DAC chipset. It is the low power version of that part. That way it could be powered by the USB cable. The S2 uses a pair of these stereo converter chips in a dual sine/cosign config. That does help improve the specs even more over using one chip.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 29, 2018 16:55:32 GMT -6
A wall wart through the micro-usb connection? I don't see a typical wall wart dc type of connection? But regardless of the voltage, it's still unbalanced? Regardless of the amount of voltage, how is that as good as a proper balanced connection? Unbalanced connections have no way to cancel noise. I know that some people prefer unbalanced circuitry because of there being no need for balancing circuitry and the apparent sonic benefits that may come from that. I defer to your knowledge on such things, but I don't see the equivalency? The thing about balanced vs unbalanced is this while over long distance and in RF hell balanced may be better, in general is adding another stage to balance the signal really worth it ? Transformers aren't active, so it's really not "adding another stage", yes?
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Post by Guitar on Mar 29, 2018 17:16:18 GMT -6
Semantics.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,940
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Post by ericn on Mar 29, 2018 17:20:05 GMT -6
The thing about balanced vs unbalanced is this while over long distance and in RF hell balanced may be better, in general is adding another stage to balance the signal really worth it ? Transformers aren't active, so it's really not "adding another stage", yes? True but you are adding a device that contributes to the sound, even to an extent Jensen’s! It’s about this whole idea that balanced means better, you know it’s all a series of trade offs and most don’t understand most balanced gear operates unbalanced the signal is simply balanced at input and out put and that stage will effect the tone to some degree! Many manufacturers will use the cheapest method simply to win the feature check list war!
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 29, 2018 19:26:59 GMT -6
spoke with a person who used to work for the distributor who used to carry project audio products. He said that although the products were good for their price, the failure rate was almost borderline unacceptable and wouldn't recommend buying them just from reading what's on their website. Sounds to me like an unqualified sales pimp who used to work for a huckster pushing borderline projects. Failure rate on kits is and always has been something of a problem but you can't fault the people who make he kits for that. Of course there are low quality kits but you can't damn everyone for those. EDIT: My mistake, I was misled by the phrase "project audio products".
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 29, 2018 19:31:29 GMT -6
NOT "semantics". It's a very valid and important engineering point. You can balance any unbalanced output with a transformer and if the transformer is of sufficient quality there will be little difference in quality. Whereas if you do the balancing with an active circuit you are, in fact, adding another stage with the attendant noise and harmonic distortion. Which is why so many classic consoles are full of transformers while mid-quality consoles are full of opamp chips.
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Post by jin167 on Mar 29, 2018 19:46:12 GMT -6
spoke with a person who used to work for the distributor who used to carry project audio products. He said that although the products were good for their price, the failure rate was almost borderline unacceptable and wouldn't recommend buying them just from reading what's on their website. Sounds to me like an unqualified sales pimp who used to work for a huckster pushing borderline projects. Failure rate on kits is and always has been something of a problem but you can't fault the people who make he kits for that. Of course there are low quality kits but you can't damn everyone for those. you don't seem to know what you're talking about. We're not talking about kits. Go back to the beginning of the thread, read carefully then return.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 30, 2018 7:48:55 GMT -6
I'm unaware of this problem....still a thing?
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 30, 2018 7:51:44 GMT -6
Jeesh - let’s keep it civil. John Epp is our beloved local Oscar the Grouch.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 30, 2018 7:52:27 GMT -6
I'm unaware of this problem....still a thing? Er...just a tiny issue.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 30, 2018 11:37:57 GMT -6
Sounds to me like an unqualified sales pimp who used to work for a huckster pushing borderline projects. Failure rate on kits is and always has been something of a problem but you can't fault the people who make he kits for that. Of course there are low quality kits but you can't damn everyone for those. you don't seem to know what you're talking about. We're not talking about kits. Go back to the beginning of the thread, read carefully then return. My mistake, I was misled by the phrase "project audio products".
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 30, 2018 11:44:17 GMT -6
Jeesh - let’s keep it civil. John Epp is our beloved local Oscar the Grouch. That's Ok, I mistook the phrase "project audio products", for a reference to generic project audio products. I had forgotten the context set by the initial post in the thread, since it had been a day or two since I'd read it. Even Oscar the Grouch makes occasional misteaks.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 30, 2018 14:16:44 GMT -6
And in the end, everyone learns an important lesson, hehe.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,940
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Post by ericn on Mar 30, 2018 14:49:59 GMT -6
Jeesh - let’s keep it civil. John Epp is our beloved local Oscar the Grouch. That's Ok, I mistook the phrase "project audio products", for a reference to generic project audio products. I had forgotten the context set by the initial post in the thread, since it had been a day or two since I'd read it. Even Oscar the Grouch makes occasional misteaks. We call it getting old my friend!
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Mar 31, 2018 8:46:19 GMT -6
It just needs a high-quality line amp.
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Post by jimwilliams on Mar 31, 2018 13:39:37 GMT -6
With over 3 volts RMS at full scale I don't know how much more gain someone would need from a DAC. Blast a modern rock CD with .000001 db dynamic range and you will be looking for an attenuator fast.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 31, 2018 17:53:34 GMT -6
I’m ok with John’s misteaks, but like mine rare !
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 31, 2018 19:31:35 GMT -6
That's Ok, I mistook the phrase "project audio products", for a reference to generic project audio products. I had forgotten the context set by the initial post in the thread, since it had been a day or two since I'd read it. Even Oscar the Grouch makes occasional misteaks. We call it getting old my friend! What about mold? As long as it keeps to the cheese it's fine...
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,940
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Post by ericn on Apr 1, 2018 17:27:40 GMT -6
We call it getting old my friend! What about mold? As long as it keeps to the cheese it's fine... Ha I may be a Cheesehead by birth and just returned with a ton of cheese, but I prefer my penicillin in pill form thank you! On the subject of cheese as I asked my wife on the way home “iOS it weird when somebody in your family has a connection to every cheese manufacturer in the cheese cooler at the grocery store?” But that’s Central WI!
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Post by Guitar on Apr 1, 2018 17:35:11 GMT -6
Happy Cheese Day ericn we just bought a strangely wonderful variety of cheeses at the store today as well! Some spreadable, some solid and smoked, some best melted. My favorite holidays are the cheesy ones.
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