ADK z-67 in the house

Hey achase4u, I hope you are feeling better.

iamasound - thank you for the kind wishes!  I am slowly getting there.  The dehydration is what really knocked me down.  I've got the "brain sticking to my skull" headache for two days now, but soon I should be better.  I hope to do some clips this weekend.

The ADK is really fantastic.

Here's a little silly vocal test I did on day one.  I tried the foam cap instead of a pop filter.  I was pretty close for some proximity effect boost. 

One is dry and the other is run through my Phoenix DRS q4m for some low boost 130hz shelf, 200 hz bell and 10k shelf.  Very gentle gyro eq.

It then went through my Hairball Rev D.

ADK Z-mod z-67 Blue Suede no fx

ADK Z-mod z-67 Blue Suede FX

Man. I would be, too. My adk was supposed to come the 23rd and came the 27th(because of FedEx).

I hope you get yours soon. The Flea and RMS stuff looks and sounds great by all accounts so I bet it's worth the wait.

I wonder how similar the z67 and rms 269 are...

I'll try to get some other instruments recorded this weekend. I'm no singer but I may be able to pull something off.

I think you made the right choice. I mean, what if that ac701k died early but out of warranty(do they even warranty that particular tube?) That's quite a bit of money and eventually trouble to even find a replacement. But, that's just my thinking - perhaps that's why you decided? Or was it simply the tone?

I can't wait to hear clips of what you do with the mics when you get them.

You know it's kind of funny, I never sought out a frequency plot of the Z67. I have no idea what it looks like. Now that you mention how the RMS 269 should sound, I kind of want to try some tambourine on my z67. I know what Doc's RMS 269 and tambourine sounds like, I am interested in how the z67 handles a bright sound like that. Most condensers send me running out the door on tambourine even with my slightly worn out ears!

Freq plots are certainly a look into a mic's response, but it's a frozen moment in time and a very smoothed/averaged one at that.  There are certainly cases like a u67 where the response is more fluid and a frequency plot is almost like trying to tell someone how a guitar pickup will sound just based on the DC resistance!

I find Larry's method of mic tone shaping to be interesting. All the engineering that went into the capsules to achieve the tone, while using a simple circuit to maintain linear phase, then end it with a high end transformer for subtle flavor. I think that is part of what gives this mic it's "tight" sound. All sounds put through it have a very coherent and "together" kind of vibe.

Re: the 251 testing - I agree.  I hear differences, though for my purposes they are close enough for me to be happy.  Especially knowing there are transformer tailoring options.

I wonder just how much of the difference is the capsule vs the tube we are hearing?  I too, wish someone would replicate these old tubes.  Unfortunately I know all too well the challenges of trying to recreate discontinued parts.  I've spent 10 years working on vintage pickup recipes for guitars.  The research has taken me down many rabbit holes.  There are walls every way you turn and you realize that if you are too truly recreate every piece you will need investors/loans and to charge more than 99% of people will pay for such things.  China would be our friend here, because many of the manufacturing methods(that are key) and materials are actually EPA regulated(cost tons to get or businesses simply want nothing to do with it) or banned.

Best I've been able to do was find one of only 3 magnet foundries left in the USA and get an old magnet analyzed by SEM and magnetic features, but they cost me 1.10 per tiny rod magnet and I had to order $4600 worth.  It'll take me quite a while in a boutique industry like mine to make that back.  Not to mention that even though they did an amazing job and they sound great/very close, they are not the same sounding.  Raw ores have also changed a lot.

Wire though is another story.  Youd have to shell out 20k or so and get an 18wheeler full to get it custom made.  Only one or two places makes the plain enamel true oleo resonus insulated wire that is so so important to pickup tone.  It's totally unique in its sound.  I believe all USA manufacturing has ceased for it.  It contains benzine and is incredibly hazardous to make.

So we'd have to destroy a perfectly good AC701 just to find out what's in it.  Each piece would need to be analyzed via combustion/SEM(scanning electron microscope) to find just what were dealing with.  Plate alloy is a big part of how tubes behave although it's usually some kind of tungsten. 

I digress, I really wish someone would make one(though that one in the link in the other thread claims to be?) but without thinking they could move lots and lots of them, I doubt anyone is chomping at the bit to throw down the money to do it.  I could be wrong and hope I am.  Perhaps once ac701s disappear almost completely and they are $750-1k a piece, then someone will be making them for $500?

Sorry, that turned into a much longer post than I meant it.

$40M invested in a 3rd world country that can dump the hazardous wastes with impunity ought to do it.  Seriously, has anyone reproduced the sound of ANY gold-standard tube?  No.  There are a zillion variations, many extremely close on a given day, but if you call it a repro, it, or anything else, will never stand up to the scrutiny.   This is why it isn't done....along with the equation of investment/yield...which is laughable.  How many are going to sell?  Not many, not enough to make the equation work.  Oliver Archut came up with 27,500 as the number produced in the first place; really not that many.   NOT the number for the M variation.   And even THAT number hasn't been totally depleted. 

Don't get caught up in the specifics of the tube itself....which again is why no one has the hubris to touch it, let alone the funds.   The whole thing is a recipe, and that's probably why $10K for a replica that's different physically may not be crazy at all.  You lose an ingredient, you shift everything else to arrive at as close to the same outcome as you can.  We can't get the celery to taste the same as it did in the climate of 1952, so we shouldn't say the soup isn't as good.  We can say it's different, undoubtably.  

I would guarantee that a dedicated search committee could find an existing tube, out of the thousands of types developed, that would come closer than anything used to date.  And it would be rejected for being a different size, using a different power supply method, being from a different country, being glass, whatever.   It would be rejected by many end users as not semantically adhering to every trivial detail.  It would be rejected by most manufacturers on the basis of being some out-of-production type that would be hard to source in reliable quantities, as it may be a cult favorite in some other circle, such as vintage hi-fi, and already expensive too.  And it would also be a type that no one would be able to reproduce with an identical sonic outcome, even if it met all the same technical benchmarks. 

Remember Western Electric reissued the 300B in the 1990's, same factory, same equipment, I think they were $450 1990's $s, and certainly would have made and sold way more of them than VF14's would do.....and people didn't like them as much as old ones.  

The trend amongst hi-fi tube rollers is this pervasive idea that the first version of a tube was the best, and they all went downhill after that.  It can't possibly be!  It's simply a justification to pay/charge more for a rarer earlier version.  

Reminds me of another funny tangent.  Everyone (except me) hates metal tubes for the most part, except VF14's.  Logic does not follow!

5963? Quieter graded 6SJ7. Good tube.

Alright chilrens, I got us a clip. Got the main parts done last night and did the rest this afternoon. Alas, I can't practice much anymore and never was a mandolin/slide player. So, please bear with me.  I also filled this arrangement up more with parts than I normally would, just to give more to listen to sonically.

So, I cannot comment on how a u67 or 269 would sound in comparison here as I didn't have those here to compare nor have I ever had the pleasure.  My only guess based on comparisons in my head of sounds I've heard would be that the ADK is a little more open and detailed/bright for starters.

So anyway, a little Auld Lang Syne, eh? Raise a glass to them good ole days when every good boy and girl had a u67 to mic up their favorite sources with. Ah, I miss those days.

Just did balancing on this no-fx version. I'll do another one that is "mixed" today or tonight.

The parts were all tracked through my Phoenix DRS preamp which is slightly Neve-ish but more open.  I will perhaps to a clip with the John Hardy and Sebatron Axis for some more tonal listening.

ADK z-mod Z67 "Auld Lang Syne" no fx

It's so hard to quantify the differences, thats for sure. 

And it really is a game of subtle things adding up.  That is the name of the game for sure.  Getting every one of those things right is tough if you are trying to match an old mic.

Good luck with your Christmas album! I will definitely want a copy.

I really like what I have heard from the AI version(at least a good one) vs the older ones.  It's a little darker and larger to me.  I can see it working really well in a lot of cases.  It's the descendant of a u67, so how could it not!

Looking forward to the sounds of your Flea and RMS!

Here are a couple more clips this time comparing through the Sebatron Axis 200vu (with NOS Mullards) and John Hardy M-2. I've got a cable splitter going from the PSU to the pres. The Sebatron is pushed for color.

Some OM sized acoustic on Croce Blues and Fingerstyle(with old strings) and a Coop guitars T style on the Strange Blues piece.

Croce Blues ADK z-67 Sebatron

Croce Blues ADK z-67 Hardy M-2

Fingerstyle ADK z-67 Sebatron

Fingerstyle ADK z-67 Hardy M-2

Strange Blues ADK z-67 Sebatron

Strange Blues ADK z-67 Hardy M-2

And a little mixed version of Auld Lang Syne

Mister Chase, now that you’ve had it for a bit do you have any new thoughts, or are you still just enjoying it?