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Post by johneppstein on Dec 22, 2017 1:37:26 GMT -6
I gladly pay my taxes if they go to support medical programs, schools, and even food stamp programs. I know mothers who work (nearly) full time at Walmart - which refuses to giving them the full 40 hours necessary to qualify for minimum wage and worker's benefits, capping them at 38 or 39 hours, who can't feed their kids without food stamps. I have no problems with paying taxes that pay for police and fire services, road maintenance, and even government workers and honest (more or less) politicians. But I object strenuously to paying taxes to enrich people who already have more money than they could possibly spend in a lifetime or to bolster the coffers of corporations who will used it for stock buybacks and windfall payments to overpaid executives, board members, and wealthy stockholders. You want to give my money to corporations? Give me voting stock in the company - that's what investors usually receive.
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Post by iamasound on Dec 22, 2017 9:31:41 GMT -6
On a basic level, people here in NYC have seen Trump up close for 35 years. We know him better than people not from New York. Basically, if you trust him to do something right, you're screwed, he never does what's right, only what gets more for himself. So trusting that lying, cheating, disgusting braggart to do something right is seriously misplaced trust, and you will get burned, and we the people will get burned, mark my words. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat anymore, it's divided us all. I'm only interested in what you are for. We've begun basing our judgement of people on what they believe, and not who they are and what they do. It's a huge mistake. I don't care if you're super right wing, or a pinko Liberal, if you're a good person, I'll be your friend. You took the words right outta my mouth.
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Post by drbill on Dec 22, 2017 10:40:42 GMT -6
Trump is NOT "just" another self serving egomaniac. He's in a whole new class by himself. Trump actually has the capability to destroy the world. And he is not a mere egomaniac - at best he is a raving sociopath, at worst a full blown psychopath with well developed paranoid traits and the self control of a two year old. Who controls a very large nuclear arsenal. In all likelihood Trump is the most dangerous man who has ever lived. To underestimate him is a mortal danger. john, do us all a favor and take it somewhere else. Please.
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Post by drbill on Dec 22, 2017 10:41:14 GMT -6
Trump is NOT "just" another self serving egomaniac. He's in a whole new class by himself. Trump actually has the capability to destroy the world. And he is not a mere egomaniac - at best he is a raving sociopath, at worst a full blown psychopath with well developed paranoid traits and the self control of a two year old. Who controls a very large nuclear arsenal. In all likelihood Trump is the most dangerous man who has ever lived. To underestimate him is a mortal danger. John, do us all a favor and take it somewhere else. Please. You're getting delusional.
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Post by christopher on Dec 22, 2017 10:55:50 GMT -6
Just about everyone from both 'sides' of US politics will benefit from the tax package as most have some kinds of property investment portfolios. Totally untrue. I don't know where you get this nonsense. (Well, actually I do,. but it's a total lie.) I don't have any "property investment portfolio". Neither do any of the local musicians I know in the Bay Area, or the majority of small businessmen,. or anybody in any of the service industries (who make up the builk of the woirkers in the SF area, or any of the schoolteachers (of whom I know several), or most of the construction workers, truck drivers or non- upper management workers in ther Bay Area tech sector. They ALL rent. In fact, do you know who owns most of the property in urban California? Foreign investors from China, Russia, and the Middle East, specifically Saudi Arabia, that's who. And it's the same situation in the New York City real estate market and pretty much every other expanding urban real estate market in the country. And they're all jacking up the rents as high as they canm get them. Rents in SF on bob-rernt controlled properties haver been doubling and tripling as tenants are forced out. I was forced to leave my home and studio in SF when my rent was summarily tripled in January 2016. Do you know what the the #! cause of major studio closings is in major US cities? In case you haven't been paying attention it's usorious rent increases by major real estate speculators, the majority of whom are either either members of the US mega-rich or or foreign "investors". Do you know what the primary conduit for money laundering by the Russian Mob is? US Real estate, that's what. And guess who is a major player? Yes, that person who was legally supposed to divest himself of all such investment as a condition of taking office. And who didn't obey the law. Where do think the Russian investigation is going, anyway? The are two ob jectives - the lesser one is an investigation of treasonous activity. The other, and larger one is money laundering by the Russian Mob employing US real estate investment as the primary conduit. Are you aware that those clauses that do provide a modest benefit to middle class US investors are written so as be reduced significaqntly within 2 years and to be completely eliminated within 10? While the tax benefits to to the mega-rich DO NOT EXPIRE? No? Perhaps you should familiarize yourself whth the actual contents of the legislation you support before committing yourself, lest you receive a really nasty and unexpected bite on the ass when the chickens come home to roost? The 3 richest members of Congress all voted against the tax bill, one going on TV and calling it totally immoral and stating that the way it was rammed through is contrary to every standard of submitting and approving legislation. Which is absolutely true. Not all politicians are totally corrupt. I hav e been against the Feinstein-Pelosi "Republican Lite" cabal of real estate developer backed politicians since Di-Fi seized the office of SF Mayor in the wake of the assassination of Moscone. The only difference between them and Trump is that they pay lip service to "liberal-ish" positions and throw the occasional well-gnawed bone to to the middle and working classes - as long as it doesn't get in the way of their own ambitions. And I suspect that some of those positions, specifically gun control, are actually 5th column activity to ensure that the Democrats don't carry national elections. I dunno some people just have all the luck when it comes to investing especially when the decisions they make push up the stock prices of their own portfolios.VBery Trump-ian, aint it? I live in Bay Area and can confirm, its all true- except I have no proof about money laundering aspect, and wouldn't say so if I did. But foriegn investors show up in a minibus, all bid on a crappy property. Two weeks ago my friend's neighbor got 17 bids on first day selling their 3br nicely painted dump for $749k. And true most of the people around here have no assets. Certainly no property assets. Usually one member in the family, grandma or grandpa, still has their home from before 1980's. All the working children and grandkids live there. 10 cars in the driveway, 20 when its a birthday.
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Post by swurveman on Dec 22, 2017 11:39:03 GMT -6
Trump is NOT "just" another self serving egomaniac. He's in a whole new class by himself. Trump actually has the capability to destroy the world. And he is not a mere egomaniac - at best he is a raving sociopath, at worst a full blown psychopath with well developed paranoid traits and the self control of a two year old. Who controls a very large nuclear arsenal. In all likelihood Trump is the most dangerous man who has ever lived. To underestimate him is a mortal danger. John, do us all a favor and take it somewhere else. Please. You're getting delusional. I thought what he said about large city real estate was quite lucid.
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Post by drbill on Dec 22, 2017 11:55:26 GMT -6
The hate and vitriol has no place here. I wanted to read about net neutrality not russians in us politics.
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Post by swurveman on Dec 22, 2017 12:00:25 GMT -6
The hate and vitriol has no place here. I wanted to read about net neutrality not russians in us politics. Well, the marketplace of ideas went otherwise. C'est La Vie.
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Post by drbill on Dec 22, 2017 12:05:24 GMT -6
I thought this was a no politics forum?
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Post by christopher on Dec 22, 2017 15:34:39 GMT -6
I read a trending op-ed piece a few weeks ago where the author talked about what the NN changes are with links to the actual bill and law. I can't find it now, maybe someone already mentioned it?. He said he wanted to know the truth for himself and talked about how boring it was to read the law and the bills, and offered for us to do so, with the links. Of course he knew we wouldn't read it, so he described what he learned, with quotes from the bill and the law in place: the law in place, has many lines and states in multiple sections what is allowed and isn't allowed. The proposed changes would repeal and replace only to change the wording in a few places, but wouldn't change anything because it's already stated elsewhere in the law. So his consclusion is that the changes wouldn't change anything in any legal way. So my conclusion was: it's a way for Trump admin to deliver his promise without changing anything. And a way for anti-trump side to get riled up against him. But the article I can't find with google or bing.. so..
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 22, 2017 16:15:26 GMT -6
I don’t know much about it, to be honest. Certainly not enough to form a coherent opinion. I do think our entire medical insturance system is a massive mess, though. So we got that going for us. So, all those people who make between $16,040 and say $60,000 (just guessing). as an example, let's pretend the 60K earner has a non-working wife, 2 kids age 11 and 13 and a before-tax take-home pay of ~$2300 every 2 weeks. their take-home pay is about $44,600 or ~$1700 every 2 weeks. Their job offers a health/vision/dental plan that is gonna cost them $850/mo because they have 3 dependents, and their deductible is pretty high, at $2500/member or $10000 annually. They could pay more and get a lower deductible, but that would cost them 1100/mo and lower their deductible to 7500 annually or 1875/member. 850/mo turns into $392 per paycheck, so now their takehome pay is $1308 every 2 weeks or $34,400 annually after tax. Roughly 2866/mo www.taxformcalculator.com/tax/60000.htmlLet's start adding up the cost of living expenses, monthly. We'll assume that they live in a co-op building in a fairly large city with a decent subway system, so they don't need to own a car. They have a mortgage on their 2-br apartment in the co-op building. Cellphone: $160/mo (tmobile's family plan @ 40/line because the kids are old enough). $2706 remains in the monthly budget Electric bill: $66/mo. $2640 remains in monthly budget Cooking gas bill: $40/mo they cook a lot for 4 people because getting take out all the time is expensive. $2600 remains in the monthly budget. Internet: $50/mo $2550 remains in the monthly budget Co-Op management fee: $400/mo. Covers maintenance, heat, water, and a parking space which they don't use for the building. Does not include property taxes or mortgage interest. $2100 remains in the monthly budget. Groceries: $200/week which is considered low-cost by the USDA. 10400 annually. 866 monthly. $1234 remains in the monthly budget. Transit: $116/mo (they live near the subway system which has stations near their job). $1118 remains in the monthly budget. HSA: the job offers to match employee contributions at 50% so they chip in $50/paycheck or 1300/annually. $1009 remains in the monthly budget They still have to pay their mortgage and property taxes. clothing, etc hasn't been accounted for either. If they give up their company's health plan, they'll have an extra 425/mo in the coffers
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Post by christopher on Dec 22, 2017 17:41:35 GMT -6
Really nice layout nfc. I just thought it was interesting the food costs. It's realistic, honestly, but I wish it was lower. I constantly try to keep food costs lower, but it's tough, especially with kids. And I know some would say "they should just eat rice and beans, ..solved". But on the other side of that theres the idea of supporting the big food companies, and wanting their stocks to crush earnings. Same with cars, gasoline, tech, credit cards, bank loans.. they want people to not spend money beyond their means, but for earnings reports they desperately want them to spend beyond their means.
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Post by yotonic on Dec 22, 2017 19:05:41 GMT -6
I have some friends who get all of their "news" from Fox & Breitbart. And repeat it like talking points. That's scary. They are too lazy to stay informed by reading critically, daily and from varied and independent sources. They will read everything under the sun about a Neve 1073 but when it comes to news and national issues they eat the same low hanging fruit everyday. That's not a balanced diet.
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Post by donr on Dec 22, 2017 20:57:11 GMT -6
There are a couple of guys on here who clearly get all of their "news" from Fox & Breitbart. And repeat it like talking points. That's scary. I have friends like that. They are too lazy to stay informed by reading critically, daily and from varied and independent sources. They will read everything under the sun about a Neve 1073 but when it comes to news and national issues they eat the same low hanging fruit everyday. That's not a balanced diet. (apologies to the non-Americans reading) If only we could get rid of Fox News and Breitbart.. It's not that simple. Some of us believe, or have come to believe, that humans, especially Americans, shouldn't look to government first to solve every problem of life. Historically, it's a fairly recent phenomenon to expect that. Here, or anywhere on earth. American politicians for some time now, and more so recently, for apparent good intention, granted, has encouraged dependence on government. Not like you want to pull the plug on those who for no fault have become dependent, but you don't want to encourage more of it. You want to encourage less of it. No rancor, just trying to restore, inspire, and elevate the human species here, and abroad. I was a leftie for almost five decades. One day I decided progressives hadn't had a good idea in a long time, and all that remained for us, the one, the never again, US of A, was the determined leftist march to another failed socialist utopia. BTW, your political opponents aren't monsters. And the philisophical right doesn't just go all ad hominem in a moment like the left does. Obama's eight years of transformation, is the reason why we got Trump in 2016. Trump was perhaps the only soul on earth able to be who Trump has been. The guy has taken more arrows in the last two years than any politician in history, and any normal politician would have been long dead. He's not an eloquent statesman, is he? He's a boorish fellow with no couth. But he's historic. It's why he defeated the field of GOP candidtates. Who knew how he would govern? Nobody. Not as an ideologue, but he's done more seat-of-the-pants conservatism than any DC thinktank would have already. Way historic. Anyway, looks like there's an ideological showdown coming in America. Trump trying to get USA gov't closer to the way it was before 2008, if not 2000. In all history, there will only be one US of A, with its constitutional enshrinement of individual liberty and the federalism of state sovereignty. If it's dismantled in our time, there won't be another. I would like to keep the flame alive. I believe the USA has done the earth more good than any other nation has or ever will. By being the United States. A beacon of liberty, opportunity and self determination. Why should we support making our country less than than it was when we were born into it? I'll talk about policy and philosophy all day in this thread, or elsewhere, without getting bent about it. We all act in what we think is our interest, and I'm interested in finding out what my interest really is. I'm always willing to listen.
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Post by yotonic on Dec 22, 2017 21:22:48 GMT -6
Sounds good. That's what Max Martin and Dr. Luke are trying to do too. None of the above are qualified. You gonna hire a guy to mix FOH for you who doesn't even know what a mixing board looks like?
Trump didn't run to do anything for anyone but himself and his brand. We know him well in New York. But that's a separate matter. If you honestly think FOX News is critical journalism you aren't being honest. I watch it sometimes, it's hilarious. But they use the same strategy as Facebook which revealed through one of their original founders that their research showed they can keep more users glued to the screen if their algorithms crunch out negative news and conflict, so that's what Facebook secretly does. It is damaging. Same with all of the lying and outlandish silliness on FOX. It's more a shock jock talk show like Rush or Howard etc. I believe people are wired to fight, steal, take, kill. If you don't make an effort to lead a value based life and to raise children that way, it won't just happen. Look around you, we are all older here and looking back.
Technically Trump hasn't accomplished much at all simply because the people around him have revealed he doesn't have the intellectual capacity, or experience and skill set for government, he is a real estate guy who made money branding products. He's lip syncing so to speak and most people are woefully uninformed to know when someone is governing or not governing. Most Presidents study all night to prepare for their daily briefings and meetings. He reportedly watches TV and tweets. Allegedly the worst work ethic of any sitting President in modern time. Is that acceptable? In a band or any other job? I think not. Tons of people hated Obama, Howard Stern. Just because some guy is still standing after taking a lashing for terrible screw ups doesn't make him special unless you're in 6th grade with the class clown. Trump promised to simplify the tax code, make it a bill for the forgotten working middle class... none of that happened. Basically a tax cut for Corporations and the rich. Trump always made promises like this in business and never delivered. That said his voters don't care if he goes back on his word, he can tell them anything as he has bragged.
And how was America so different 15 years ago? Really? This line has been totally debunked. Neither party, and most Presidents have little effect over the system. Make America great again is BS. It still is great. Countries need governments to run. We are a beacon because of our values which Trump can't seem to articulate. So we don't need the EPA to protect us from pollution? Or building inspectors to make sure your concert venues have sprinklers? I find it a crock to hear anyone say make America Great Again. The biggest change I notice is families have less money and the corporations have gotten bigger more powerful and times feel like they have changed. Google takes musicians music without paying, cable companies keep raising their bills. I work more now technically with how productive phones and the internet make us than I ever have in my life, for about the same annual income. I get twice as much done but the big players take a bigger piece of everything it's dog eat dog out there.
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Post by matt@IAA on Dec 22, 2017 21:27:30 GMT -6
I don’t know much about it, to be honest. Certainly not enough to form a coherent opinion. I do think our entire medical insturance system is a massive mess, though. So we got that going for us. So, all those people who make between $16,040 and say $60,000 (just guessing). as an example, let's pretend the 60K earner has a non-working wife, 2 kids age 11 and 13 and a before-tax take-home pay of ~$2300 every 2 weeks. their take-home pay is about $44,600 or ~$1700 every 2 weeks. Their job offers a health/vision/dental plan that is gonna cost them $850/mo because they have 3 dependents, and their deductible is pretty high, at $2500/member or $10000 annually. They could pay more and get a lower deductible, but that would cost them 1100/mo and lower their deductible to 7500 annually or 1875/member. 850/mo turns into $392 per paycheck, so now their takehome pay is $1308 every 2 weeks or $34,400 annually after tax. Roughly 2866/mo www.taxformcalculator.com/tax/60000.htmlLet's start adding up the cost of living expenses, monthly. We'll assume that they live in a co-op building in a fairly large city with a decent subway system, so they don't need to own a car. They have a mortgage on their 2-br apartment in the co-op building. Cellphone: $160/mo (tmobile's family plan @ 40/line because the kids are old enough). $2706 remains in the monthly budget Electric bill: $66/mo. $2640 remains in monthly budget Cooking gas bill: $40/mo they cook a lot for 4 people because getting take out all the time is expensive. $2600 remains in the monthly budget. Internet: $50/mo $2550 remains in the monthly budget Co-Op management fee: $400/mo. Covers maintenance, heat, water, and a parking space which they don't use for the building. Does not include property taxes or mortgage interest. $2100 remains in the monthly budget. Groceries: $200/week which is considered low-cost by the USDA. 10400 annually. 866 monthly. $1234 remains in the monthly budget. Transit: $116/mo (they live near the subway system which has stations near their job). $1118 remains in the monthly budget. HSA: the job offers to match employee contributions at 50% so they chip in $50/paycheck or 1300/annually. $1009 remains in the monthly budget They still have to pay their mortgage and property taxes. clothing, etc hasn't been accounted for either. If they give up their company's health plan, they'll have an extra 425/mo in the coffers When I said I didn’t know enough about it, I wasn’t asking for a basic budgeting outline. I am quite capable of basic arithmetic. I meant along the lines of who is eligible and why, what the costs are, where it’s budgeted from, and so on. The nuances that make policy good or bad. Free stuff for population group x will always be good for x and there are always hypothetical scenarios where people will greatly benefit from a handout. But it didn’t exist before 1997. People now can’t even imagine life without it. Doesn’t that strike you as odd? Kids got sick in 1997, too. End of the day, it’s free stuff for some folks paid by some others, one way or another. Making it only for insurance or whatever is just a color of money issue. Oh - and his hypothetical wife should get a job before expecting the rest of us, collectively, to pay for her kid to go see the doc. My wife works and raises two kids. My mom worked and raised us kids. She can too.
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Post by matt@IAA on Dec 22, 2017 21:38:57 GMT -6
There are a couple of guys on here who clearly get all of their "news" from Fox & Breitbart. And repeat it like talking points. That's scary. I have friends like that. They are too lazy to stay informed by reading critically, daily and from varied and independent sources. They will read everything under the sun about a Neve 1073 but when it comes to news and national issues they eat the same low hanging fruit everyday. That's not a balanced diet. (apologies to the non-Americans reading) If only we could get rid of Fox News and Breitbart.. It's not that simple. Some of us believe, or have come to believe, that humans, especially Americans, shouldn't look to government first to solve every problem of life. Historically, it's a fairly recent phenomenon to expect that. Here, or anywhere on earth. American politicians for some time now, and more so recently, for apparent good intention, granted, has encouraged dependence on government. Not like you want to pull the plug on those who for no fault have become dependent, but you don't want to encourage more of it. You want to encourage less of it. No rancor, just trying to restore, inspire, and elevate the human species here, and abroad. I was a leftie for almost five decades. One day I decided progressives hadn't had a good idea in a long time, and all that remained for us, the one, the never again, US of A, was the determined leftist march to another failed socialist utopia. BTW, your political opponents aren't monsters. And the philisophical right doesn't just go all ad hominem in a moment like the left does. Obama's eight years of transformation, is the reason why we got Trump in 2016. Trump was perhaps the only soul on earth able to be who Trump has been. The guy has taken more arrows in the last two years than any politician in history, and any normal politician would have been long dead. He's not an eloquent statesman, is he? He's a boorish fellow with no couth. But he's historic. It's why he defeated the field of GOP candidtates. Who knew how he would govern? Nobody. Not as an ideologue, but he's done more seat-of-the-pants conservatism than any DC thinktank would have already. Way historic. Anyway, looks like there's an ideological showdown coming in America. Trump trying to get USA gov't closer to the way it was before 2008, if not 2000. In all history, there will only be one US of A, with its constitutional enshrinement of individual liberty and the federalism of state sovereignty. If it's dismantled in our time, there won't be another. I would like to keep the flame alive. I believe the USA has done the earth more good than any other nation has or ever will. By being the United States. A beacon of liberty, opportunity and self determination. Why should we support making our country less than than it was when we were born into it? I'll talk about policy and philosophy all day in this thread, or elsewhere, without getting bent about it. We all act in what we think is our interest, and I'm interested in finding out what my interest really is. I'm always willing to listen. Very well said. It’s tough because governance reminds me of Minsky’s market observations. Stability causes instability. We are stable from a good system of governance, which allows or encourages bad governance - there’s so much capacity for it due to our relative economic strength. But it produces bad. And eventually it’ll flip, like a Minsky moment in a bubble market. In the mean time, everyone thinks it’s fine because by all appearances it is - and they want to ply more and more bad governance to fix things that are not the government’s to fix. If you’ve never read Aristotle’s Politics I recommend it highly. Most of what we’re talking about here is clearly discussed there in one way or another. Which is both amazing and depressing.
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Post by christopher on Dec 22, 2017 21:52:21 GMT -6
There was no transformation with Obama. Same politics since forever. A few boring polarizing changes basically meaningless, but nothing at all different. they wanted to force people to buy from the insurance companies, BUT we already buy from the insurance companies. Or pay a tiny fine if you didn't. Nothing else was real change at all, a few political football turnovers otherwise same economics passed on from 80s and 90s. Gay marriage maybe? created jobs for wedding planners, wedding bands, and income for government, not that big of a transformation. It's mostly lip service. Bailouts were a money grab, but they did achieve what they supposed to. Now those companies are doing great. From my perspective Obama had no big changes. Tech on the other hand..
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Post by yotonic on Dec 22, 2017 22:00:11 GMT -6
There was no transformation with Obama. Same politics since forever. A few boring polarizing changes basically meaningless, but nothing at all different. they wanted to force people to buy from the insurance companies, BUT we already buy from the insurance companies. Or pay a tiny fine if you didn't. Nothing else was real change at all, a few political football turnovers otherwise same economics passed on from 80s and 90s. Gay marriage maybe? created jobs for wedding planners, wedding bands, and income for government, not that big of a transformation. It's mostly lip service. Bailouts were a money grab, but they did achieve what they supposed to. Now those companies are doing great. From my perspective Obama had no big changes. Tech on the other hand.. Yes this ^ Well articulated. America is a harder place to live in today because of tech. You are twice as productive for the same pay. You are flooded with negative news, and have little to no chance to fight corporations if they screw you. It costs too much. At 52 years old America is not as kind and gentle as it was in the decades before 2000 and the internet. And the internet has made people crueler and more ruthless to others. It's a time in history where we need more humanity in our politics, not less.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,011
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Post by ericn on Dec 22, 2017 23:02:37 GMT -6
There are a couple of guys on here who clearly get all of their "news" from Fox & Breitbart. And repeat it like talking points. That's scary. I have friends like that. They are too lazy to stay informed by reading critically, daily and from varied and independent sources. They will read everything under the sun about a Neve 1073 but when it comes to news and national issues they eat the same low hanging fruit everyday. That's not a balanced diet. (apologies to the non-Americans reading) If only we could get rid of Fox News and Breitbart.. It's not that simple. Some of us believe, or have come to believe, that humans, especially Americans, shouldn't look to government first to solve every problem of life. Historically, it's a fairly recent phenomenon to expect that. Here, or anywhere on earth. American politicians for some time now, and more so recently, for apparent good intention, granted, has encouraged dependence on government. Not like you want to pull the plug on those who for no fault have become dependent, but you don't want to encourage more of it. You want to encourage less of it. No rancor, just trying to restore, inspire, and elevate the human species here, and abroad. I was a leftie for almost five decades. One day I decided progressives hadn't had a good idea in a long time, and all that remained for us, the one, the never again, US of A, was the determined leftist march to another failed socialist utopia. BTW, your political opponents aren't monsters. And the philisophical right doesn't just go all ad hominem in a moment like the left does. Obama's eight years of transformation, is the reason why we got Trump in 2016. Trump was perhaps the only soul on earth able to be who Trump has been. The guy has taken more arrows in the last two years than any politician in history, and any normal politician would have been long dead. He's not an eloquent statesman, is he? He's a boorish fellow with no couth. But he's historic. It's why he defeated the field of GOP candidtates. Who knew how he would govern? Nobody. Not as an ideologue, but he's done more seat-of-the-pants conservatism than any DC thinktank would have already. Way historic. Anyway, looks like there's an ideological showdown coming in America. Trump trying to get USA gov't closer to the way it was before 2008, if not 2000. In all history, there will only be one US of A, with its constitutional enshrinement of individual liberty and the federalism of state sovereignty. If it's dismantled in our time, there won't be another. I would like to keep the flame alive. I believe the USA has done the earth more good than any other nation has or ever will. By being the United States. A beacon of liberty, opportunity and self determination. Why should we support making our country less than than it was when we were born into it? I'll talk about policy and philosophy all day in this thread, or elsewhere, without getting bent about it. We all act in what we think is our interest, and I'm interested in finding out what my interest really is. I'm always willing to listen. While we agree to disagree on most things political to do with political philosophy I know Don like many of my freinds on the right do care about those of us who are not as fortunate as many of us, the question is how do we cut the posturing and BS on both sides and honestly get down to governing? The fact is both sides have been obstructionist and my hope for the new year is that we can find the middle ground and move forward! At this point I would like to see Pelosi and Schumer go as much as Trump, Paul Ryan and company! Honestly can we do something so that we are not in a constant campaign centric cycle? We people on both sides who won't be bought, vote the issues not the latest focus group! I
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 22, 2017 23:37:05 GMT -6
Oh - and his hypothetical wife should get a job before expecting the rest of us, collectively, to pay for her kid to go see the doc. My wife works and raises two kids. My mom worked and raised us kids. She can too. Is it wrong for me to hope that none of any tax dollars I pay end up benefitting you directly via public services like fire, police, food stamps, health care subsidies etc..? Because you or your kids could and should obviously get a job to support yourself, right? God forbid anything happen to you or your family such that your wife can't work and raise those 2 kids. Where's the eye roll emoji. you know, I miss living in New York City. I didn't use any of the social programs they have for low-income people even tho I definitely qualified (food stamps, health care subsidies, subway/bus stipends for kids to get to school) but I'm glad they were there for those that needed them. EVEN IF THEY DID GET A JOB and it still wasn't enough. This is 'murica, I should have some kind of choice where my money goes, right?
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Post by christopher on Dec 23, 2017 1:04:06 GMT -6
Poverty is not something to be jealous of. it's pretty funny, people get all bent because some poor woman is raising kids on welfare and won't take the first absolute garbage job offer to come her way. And the HATRED, it's just funny! Yet- get this- a BILLIONAIRE.. who NEVER worked a single day in their life.. gets TAX BREAKS to the tune of millions: hip-hip-hooray!!! 3 cheers for corruption! Praise the lobbyists!... thank god the rich people who make more on annual interest than people make in their lifetime, don't have to suffer anymore!!! And now we will gladly pay our taxes to support their freedom! Down with the greedy poor people. Hahaha..
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Post by swurveman on Dec 23, 2017 9:45:26 GMT -6
There are a couple of guys on here who clearly get all of their "news" from Fox & Breitbart. And repeat it like talking points. That's scary. I have friends like that. They are too lazy to stay informed by reading critically, daily and from varied and independent sources. They will read everything under the sun about a Neve 1073 but when it comes to news and national issues they eat the same low hanging fruit everyday. That's not a balanced diet. (apologies to the non-Americans reading) If only we could get rid of Fox News and Breitbart.. It's not that simple. Some of us believe, or have come to believe, that humans, especially Americans, shouldn't look to government first to solve every problem of life. Historically, it's a fairly recent phenomenon to expect that. Here, or anywhere on earth. American politicians for some time now, and more so recently, for apparent good intention, granted, has encouraged dependence on government. Not like you want to pull the plug on those who for no fault have become dependent, but you don't want to encourage more of it. You want to encourage less of it. Don, I'm curious if you had money in the stock market in 2008? Do you think government was right to solve that problem? Has government encouraged Wall Street investors- presumably like yourself, but I don't know for certain- dependence on government by continuously coming to the rescue when the market fails? I think "dependence on government" is always couched in terms of the poor, but I believe the rich have the most dependence on government and benefit the most. Every investor should have been wiped out in 2008, think about that, but like many financial disasters since 1980 the government stepped in and stabilized the stock market for the benefit of investors. Meanwhile, banks borrow money at 0-1% and loan it at 17%. Great deal, for them and their investors. So, when you preach self determination, remember how many wealthy people's wealth-maybe even your own- is being insured by the government.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 23, 2017 11:48:17 GMT -6
One thing I think a lot of people miss is that we have bottom-up government power in the U.S.
Local government has more power over the individual than state government and state government has more power than the Federal government. The importance of local elections can't be emphasized enough.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 23, 2017 12:30:10 GMT -6
Wall Street is controlled more by the local NYC city council than the Federal Regulations regarding banking??
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