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Post by Guitar on Dec 2, 2017 15:19:37 GMT -6
Same here. The big toms always I treat as a bass instrument. Usually use a large diaphragm dynamic mic there. Just GOTTA HAVE THAT BOOM!!!
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Post by EmRR on Dec 2, 2017 15:48:50 GMT -6
I did a club remote last week with the house beta 58's on all the guitar amps, and noted their rejection was amazing. Those tracks sound like overdubs compared to everything else used.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 2, 2017 15:58:09 GMT -6
Supercardioid... I do find that pattern very useful sometimes... Even though I don't pull them out every day.
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Post by jampa on Dec 2, 2017 16:19:18 GMT -6
Not necessarily the best mics for minimal bleed, but sort of relevant
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 2, 2017 16:26:33 GMT -6
The subject of directional mics, Directional mics are directional at higher frequency and naturally go closer to Omni as you go lower. Those that don't get phazey because they are using are phase based. The E604 and its siblings were an attempt at bring the sound of the MD421 in a cheap compact package, not bad for the money but what many like about them is the limited bandwidth, which is in fact what many hate!
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Post by wiz on Dec 2, 2017 16:44:04 GMT -6
Not necessarily the best mics for minimal bleed, but sort of relevant I think what matters there, is what the cymbals sound like in the overheads... that would determine if I gate/edit the tom tracks....if the bleed interferes with the sound of the overheads in a negative way cheers Wiz
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Post by popmann on Dec 2, 2017 18:40:38 GMT -6
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Post by jampa on Dec 2, 2017 18:42:11 GMT -6
I put close mics up but don't necessarily use them
Sometimes I run tom mics wide open
I'm always battling cymbals - probably the rooms I use
If it's me I play them softer and or drums harder
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Post by rowmat on Dec 2, 2017 19:05:27 GMT -6
Heil PR30's or PR31BW's (we have three - same mic but in a more compact body)
Good rear rejection.
Great on toms but also work great on snare and guitar amps.
If you can cope with Charlie Waymire's enthusiasm here's a video clip
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Post by notneeson on Dec 2, 2017 19:09:39 GMT -6
Heil PR30's or PR31BW's (we have three - same mic but in a more compact body) Good rear rejection. Great on toms but also work great on snare and guitar amps. If you can cope with Charlie Waymire's enthusiasm here's a video clip Seconded, the PR30 is a great, somewhat "condenser-like" dynamic mic. Haven't put one up on drums in a bit, nice to be reminded.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 3, 2017 22:49:41 GMT -6
I like e604. Live I've used them and they can sound just like I want a recording to sound. I've never owned them though. But a drummer I recorded had one. I tried to use it on floor tom, it sounded terrible, rattling etc. I took it off the clip and put it on a stand. Much better/no more rattling but kinda nothing impressive about the sound. I backed off the distance to get that fat floor I'm used to hearing. Didn't work. Im not sure why not- figured it was broken or something. The sound was not fat, not beefy, just all attack even at distance. So I tried beta58 because I ran out of mics. The beta58 destroyed the e604 immediatley, fat, clean, detailed etc. It confused me because I've used e604 hundreds of times live and they work really well. So I don't know if the one I used that day was broken, or if they changed the design along the way, or if they suffer from counterfeits out in the world, or what. But I learned something important that day: if it sucks, try EVERY mic. Even the ones I "know" won't work,. In my experience one of the major problems with the e604 is that it's not very durable, not a trait I admire in a tom or snare mic. Mine has seen relatively few gigs (maybe half a dozen or so) and a few recording sessions and it had lost its front grille and is starting to come apart.
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Post by jampa on Dec 4, 2017 0:53:04 GMT -6
You say "condenser-like" and it has me thinking there might be more to that
I remember reading that the beyer m88 has a Hostaphan diaphragm
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 5, 2017 5:34:06 GMT -6
Does anyone have any experience with the ATM450's? Small side address condensor, 150dB dynamic range with the pad and a 3-7Khz presence lift. On paper it seems like it'd be great for tom sounds and the profile would make placement easy, not too expensive either (I guess about 150 US dollars?). Being the Albini freak I am I'd love the E22's, but I'm not spending 4 figures on Tom Tom microphones.
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Post by gouge on Dec 5, 2017 7:32:09 GMT -6
Does anyone have any experience with the ATM450's? Small side address condensor, 150dB dynamic range with the pad and a 3-7Khz presence lift. On paper it seems like it'd be great for tom sounds and the profile would make placement easy, not too expensive either (I guess about 150 US dollars?). Being the Albini freak I am I'd love the E22's, but I'm not spending 4 figures on Tom Tom microphones. i've got a pair. crisp sounding mics. i've used them on brushes and snare and some americana drums i made from plastic buckets and cardboard. worked very well in all of those situations. imagine they'd be good on guitar cabs too. not used them on toms. i've not use the e22s but from what was described to me the sound is nothing like the atm450. you should try an sm57 with the transformer removed... hint hint....
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Post by wiz on Dec 5, 2017 14:28:03 GMT -6
Does anyone have any experience with the ATM450's? Small side address condensor, 150dB dynamic range with the pad and a 3-7Khz presence lift. On paper it seems like it'd be great for tom sounds and the profile would make placement easy, not too expensive either (I guess about 150 US dollars?). Being the Albini freak I am I'd love the E22's, but I'm not spending 4 figures on Tom Tom microphones. i've got a pair. crisp sounding mics. i've used them on brushes and snare and some americana drums i made from plastic buckets and cardboard. worked very well in all of those situations. imagine they'd be good on guitar cabs too. not used them on toms. i've not use the e22s but from what was described to me the sound is nothing like the atm450. you should try an sm57 with the transformer removed... hint hint.... I would love to hear the Americana drums you rigged up Cheers Wiz
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Post by Coil Audio on Dec 5, 2017 14:54:31 GMT -6
Does anyone have any experience with the ATM450's? Small side address condensor, 150dB dynamic range with the pad and a 3-7Khz presence lift. On paper it seems like it'd be great for tom sounds and the profile would make placement easy, not too expensive either (I guess about 150 US dollars?). Being the Albini freak I am I'd love the E22's, but I'm not spending 4 figures on Tom Tom microphones. Ive used these on Toms before - they do a pretty great job at making the cymbal bleed dare i say - 'musical' , even with a basher. Easily processed. Didnt really like them on the snare drum or anywhere else on the kit - or for any other instrument for that matter. Surprised no one mentioned the Audix i5 or a Shure 545 ....... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by gouge on Dec 5, 2017 15:24:59 GMT -6
i've got a pair. crisp sounding mics. i've used them on brushes and snare and some americana drums i made from plastic buckets and cardboard. worked very well in all of those situations. imagine they'd be good on guitar cabs too. not used them on toms. i've not use the e22s but from what was described to me the sound is nothing like the atm450. you should try an sm57 with the transformer removed... hint hint.... I would love to hear the Americana drums you rigged up Cheers Wiz Will post something this weekend
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 5, 2017 21:35:44 GMT -6
I like e604. Live I've used them and they can sound just like I want a recording to sound. I've never owned them though. But a drummer I recorded had one. I tried to use it on floor tom, it sounded terrible, rattling etc. I took it off the clip and put it on a stand. Much better/no more rattling but kinda nothing impressive about the sound. I backed off the distance to get that fat floor I'm used to hearing. Didn't work. Im not sure why not- figured it was broken or something. The sound was not fat, not beefy, just all attack even at distance. So I tried beta58 because I ran out of mics. The beta58 destroyed the e604 immediatley, fat, clean, detailed etc. It confused me because I've used e604 hundreds of times live and they work really well. So I don't know if the one I used that day was broken, or if they changed the design along the way, or if they suffer from counterfeits out in the world, or what. But I learned something important that day: if it sucks, try EVERY mic. Even the ones I "know" won't work,. In my experience one of the major problems with the e604 is that it's not very durable, not a trait I admire in a tom or snare mic. Mine has seen relatively few gigs (maybe half a dozen or so) and a few recording sessions and it had lost its front grille and is starting to come apart. Sounds like the problem is the shit drummer that can’t hit the middle of the head 😂
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Post by ericn on Dec 5, 2017 21:37:37 GMT -6
In my experience one of the major problems with the e604 is that it's not very durable, not a trait I admire in a tom or snare mic. Mine has seen relatively few gigs (maybe half a dozen or so) and a few recording sessions and it had lost its front grille and is starting to come apart. Sounds like the problem is the shit drummer that can’t hit the middle of the head 😂 Yeah but all to often he's the one paying, and we know it's his life savings!
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Post by joseph on Dec 5, 2017 21:43:10 GMT -6
Does anyone have any experience with the ATM450's? Small side address condensor, 150dB dynamic range with the pad and a 3-7Khz presence lift. On paper it seems like it'd be great for tom sounds and the profile would make placement easy, not too expensive either (I guess about 150 US dollars?). Being the Albini freak I am I'd love the E22's, but I'm not spending 4 figures on Tom Tom microphones. Yes but the e22s' sound great on everything, not just Tom Toms.
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 6, 2017 3:34:47 GMT -6
Yes but the e22s' sound great on everything, not just Tom Toms. I've access to a pair of KM184's. Until my recording budget moves on, those will be the only "fancypants" mics I'll be using. Cheers to @coil Audio and gouge for the advice on the ATM450's. I think I might pick some up over the summer, they're definitely brighter than the E22's from the graph I saw but not dramatically so. I'll be picking up an SM7 in the near future also, so if I'm not getting the low end I need I can always put that on Floor Tom duty.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 6, 2017 8:33:13 GMT -6
I tried an ATM450 many years ago. I thought it sounded bad on acoustic guitar. I didn't even get to try it on drums... WHOOPS.
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Post by drumrec on Dec 6, 2017 10:29:10 GMT -6
I use quite cheap microphones on my toms with good results. High Toms Audix D2, Floor Toms Audix D4 or D6. Sometimes I have Shure SM7
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Post by Guitar on Dec 6, 2017 11:13:27 GMT -6
Some guy did a Heil thing on YouTube, I thought the PR30 sounded really nice on all the toms. They make a more compact version called the PR-31BW. If I had fat stacks of cash I'd buy some just for the heil of it.
I saw Queens of the Stone Age doing the 'big drum' thing at one of their big gigs, they had Beta 52 on every tom including the big rack tom. I thought that was a cool idea to follow.
I just decided to order an SE V7X for my snare drum. I think it's really going to cut out a lot of bleed, compared to the 57. Just to stay roughly on the topic of this thread.
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Post by ericn on Dec 6, 2017 12:38:51 GMT -6
I use quite cheap microphones on my toms with good results. High Toms Audix D2, Floor Toms Audix D4 or D6. Sometimes I have Shure SM7 Nothing wrong with cheap drum mics, I'm the guy who always pushes buying cheap dynasties and finding your own tone! Audix D series has a very defininitive sound you either love it or hate it! Me it works when and where it works, the thing about the Audix D stuff is it's easy to get that sound with them, very much point and pound!
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