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Post by swurveman on Nov 2, 2017 11:21:27 GMT -6
I was just informed by a drummer of a band I'm recording that he wants to bring 5 toms for the recording session. He only practices with two toms. So, I hope to God he can manage 5 and still do those vutuoso fills in time.  Given that I only have three true tom mics (MD 421's) I'm wondering if anybody has used one mic for two toms at a time? I'll probably end up sample augment/replacing them anyway, but I want to make sure if I do it I can hear the seperate tom hits. If anybody has any experience/tips I'd appreciate hearing your opinion/experience. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 2, 2017 11:33:15 GMT -6
I'd grab each individually. RE20 for a floor tom? 57 for a tom?
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Post by swurveman on Nov 2, 2017 11:43:22 GMT -6
I'd grab each individually. RE20 for a floor tom? 57 for a tom? Yeah, I've got spare 57's and 58's around. No RE20. Wish I could buy some more mics, but cash strapped right now. Also limited in quality preamps. I've got 10. Gonna have to bring out my Mackie 1604 VLZ for a couple of those toms. |
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Post by notneeson on Nov 2, 2017 11:51:41 GMT -6
I have gotten away with this on tightly grouped rack toms in the past with the OHs doing the heavy lifting. That said, a 57 is a pretty acceptable rack tom mic, especially the smallest diameter.
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Post by stormymondays on Nov 2, 2017 11:53:49 GMT -6
I was just going to say the same thing. A 57 is an excellent mic for the smallest tom(s).
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Post by adamjbrass on Nov 2, 2017 12:40:28 GMT -6
use more than you need!
e22s on the top and e22s on the bottom, polarity inverted,
sounds like cannons
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Post by Steamy Williams on Nov 2, 2017 12:58:21 GMT -6
Often when I've read about people using 1 mic for 2 toms, it was a condenser mic in figure of 8.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 2, 2017 13:18:14 GMT -6
Yep I've stuck a 414 in 8 successfully many times.
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 2, 2017 13:30:08 GMT -6
Problem with MD421's is they're hypercardioid. I've used RE20 over 2 toms and it works well. But if you've the channels, mic each.
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Post by swurveman on Nov 2, 2017 13:40:56 GMT -6
Yep I've stuck a 414 in 8 successfully many times. Thanks Doug. Any positioning tips? I've got an AT-4050 with a figure 8 and a Peluso 2247. I've had drummers come in before insisting on having every tom , and then when the red light goes on, they end up using very few. Nevertheless, I have to be prepared. |
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Post by EmRR on Nov 2, 2017 13:46:41 GMT -6
It usually comes down to where it will fit AND not get hit.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 2, 2017 13:55:59 GMT -6
It usually comes down to where it will fit AND not get hit. Yeah that's the thing very few figure 8 mics that your not going to put safety over sonics! |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 2, 2017 13:56:43 GMT -6
My experience has been that each additional tom screws up the sound of the kit more due to sympathetic resonances.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 2, 2017 14:21:03 GMT -6
yeah the number of guys who show up with 38 drums and then hit 3 of them........
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Post by swurveman on Nov 2, 2017 14:45:11 GMT -6
My experience has been that each additional tom screws up the sound of the kit more due to sympathetic resonances. Bob, I think it was you who in another thread suggested getting microphones on stands even though they are clip on microphones. I ask because i've been looking at tom mics and heard the Byerdynamic Opus 88 mic, which is a clip on mic. I personally liked how full the sound was from the mic. Listen here |
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Post by pope on Nov 2, 2017 15:29:32 GMT -6
What genre are we talking about? Does it absolutely have to be close-miked? I've never miked two toms with a single mic but maybe it would work with the 421s.
421s have quite a lot of bleed due to their pattern. I much rather prefer 441s on toms but they're so bloody fragile...
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Post by swurveman on Nov 2, 2017 16:03:10 GMT -6
What genre are we talking about? Does it absolutely have to be close-miked? I've never miked two toms with a single mic but maybe it would work with the 421s. 421s have quite a lot of bleed due to their pattern. I much rather prefer 441s on toms but they're so bloody fragile... It's for a rock band. I might bite the bullet and buy a couple more used 421's. I'm also looking at the Audio-Technica ATM230PK (3-Pack). Much less expensive. I think AT makes good mics, but I've not heard the 230. Edit: I listened to the ATM230. It sounded fine to me for rack toms, but seemed too boomy for floor toms. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 2, 2017 17:18:13 GMT -6
What genre are we talking about? Does it absolutely have to be close-miked? I've never miked two toms with a single mic but maybe it would work with the 421s. 421s have quite a lot of bleed due to their pattern. I much rather prefer 441s on toms but they're so bloody fragile... It's for a rock band. I might bite the bullet and buy a couple more used 421's. I'm also looking at the Audio-Technica ATM230PK (3-Pack). Much less expensive. I think AT makes good mics, but I've not heard the 230. Edit: I listened to the ATM230. It sounded fine to me for rack toms, but seemed too boomy for floor toms. Try some Sennheiser e604's. They're pretty decent tom mics and easier to position than 421's, also cheaper. But make sure to use stands as the rim clips really limit your mic placement. |
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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 2, 2017 17:27:17 GMT -6
Used to do this all the time, late 80's early 90's, mostly for the heavy rock sessions with drummers who used many, many toms!
That being said it was usually with figure 8 mics, capturing two toms at a time.
Most of the time back then I would use either, AKG 414's or Neumann U89's, split between two toms.
Actually worked very well.
But more recently I've tried Royer 121 ribbons in the same positions, for the same reasons, with GREAT results!
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Post by stormymondays on Nov 2, 2017 17:31:33 GMT -6
I love the e604 and use the clips with no issues. Look up a video of Bob Clearmountain recording drums with them. It's part of some Apogee promo videos where he starts with a couple mics only.
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Post by swurveman on Nov 2, 2017 17:44:31 GMT -6
Used to do this all the time, late 80's early 90's, mostly for the heavy rock sessions with drummers who used many, many toms! That being said it was usually with figure 8 mics, capturing two toms at a time. Most of the time back then I would use either, AKG 414's or Neumann U89's, split between two toms. Actually worked very well. But more recently I've tried Royer 121 ribbons in the same positions, for the same reasons, with GREAT results! Thanks. I have a Royer 121 . So, I'll check it out. |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 2, 2017 17:49:01 GMT -6
I love the e604 and use the clips with no issues. Look up a video of Bob Clearmountain recording drums with them. It's part of some Apogee promo videos where he starts with a couple mics only. Thanks. I'll check it out. I believe Jesse here at RGO has also used the E604's on toms. There are these 3 packs of the Sennheiser e604's, the Audix D2's and the Audio-Technica ATM230PK all in the same price range. Good to get word of mouth of what people like. |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 2, 2017 17:57:15 GMT -6
It's for a rock band. I might bite the bullet and buy a couple more used 421's. I'm also looking at the Audio-Technica ATM230PK (3-Pack). Much less expensive. I think AT makes good mics, but I've not heard the 230. Edit: I listened to the ATM230. It sounded fine to me for rack toms, but seemed too boomy for floor toms. Try some Sennheiser e604's. They're pretty decent tom mics and easier to position than 421's, also cheaper. But make sure to use stands as the rim clips really limit your mic placement. Thanks. You're the third person here who has used or has suggested the e604's. . In the Audix d2 video that I watched, the rim clip seemed pretty flexible for rack toms for either getting a full sound with the mic pointed in the middle of the tom or a more ring sound pointing near the edge. What problems did you encounter with the e604's and mic placement? |
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Post by christopher on Nov 2, 2017 18:50:44 GMT -6
I've used 58s on floor toms. I just stole a vocal boom and aimed straight down, about a foot above the outer part of the top drum head out of the drummers way. My intention was to gate it and trigger samples, but it turned out surprising better than I thought it would. In fact I started using 58s instead of the clip on "tom mics" the studio had. Maybe it was being on a stand that helped? I'd prefer 421 on floor, a juicier kind of sound over 58. Just wanted to mention that 58s can sound good if the spot is good.
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Post by reddirt on Nov 2, 2017 18:50:59 GMT -6
You dont need to spend money Swurve; put the 421s on the low toms and the higher will be more than fine with 57s.
Cheers, Ross
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