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Post by donr on Oct 8, 2017 21:17:57 GMT -6
I've opined more than once, the decline in average emotional power in today's popular music could well be blamed on quantized rhythm, and equal temperament instruments, as in electronic keyboards and 'tuned vocals. It's like half the artist's available tool palate to distinquish a musical performance is removed.
Looped drums and sequences were novel when they first appeared, but now everybody has metronomic time. The unique tuning of a particular acoustic or tine piano or clavinet at a particular instance in time is gone. The rub of small tuning shifts between ensemble instruments is largely absent. Jangly electric guitars and acoustic instruments remain the only pop instrument immune to the syndrome. Tuning and timing was a big part in differentiating and distinquishing the classic pop recordings and performances of my time.
All the innovations of modern electronics and computer science were novel when they appeared. Equal temperament keyboards and sequences were fresh in the 80's, even as the recordings made were already inferior in depth and nuance to great artists and performances previous. Same with Autotune when it came out.
My ear WANTS some rub. I also glory in just intonation, or intonation that harmonically works for a key, or even a chorus phrase or moment. People hearing and singing/playing in that moment the record light is on.
It's plainly obvious the rigidity of time/tuning in pop music is fashionable. But it doesn't make the music better, does it?
(Getting off my own lawn,) I see today's music creatives working within the conventions of today's pop. I see by the viral (if that's at all real) popularity choices, it's something you want to watch on your phone for a couple minutes. To paraphrase Mark Knopfler in "Money For Nothing," that's how you do it.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Oct 9, 2017 7:26:00 GMT -6
Just because we have the machines / power that allow us to fix everything, it doesn't mean we should~! But I'll take it a step further, Don, you and I are about the same age, and I truly believe we are going thru the slow process of the Dumbing Down of our industry & popular music.
Starting with signing of new artist and bands by people with less A&R knowledge / vision then years gone by.
The fact that many records are made in less then stellar environments, by people that really don't know what the are do'ing. The use of cheap mic's / pre-amps / interfaces.
The over use, abuse of plug in's, modeling guitar amps, etc, etc,
I believe each of the above has done it's bit to help destroy the emotional impact of music we once knew and loved!
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Post by adamjbrass on Oct 9, 2017 7:32:37 GMT -6
I have not heard any "amazing" records using this technology yet. Though I am sure many home artists are using this stuff and finding sounds with it. I actually question that "Mic Modeling is even for the people its marketed at. Its tweaker stuff...And the tweakers are the ones that NEVER finish anything!
Personally, I have yet to be blown away by it. In many ways, its just like anything else that "makes you feel Authentic" while performing a task. For instance -- Some people love some of the worst sounding U47's I have heard. They are blindly trusting this large beer can and shiny top even when it plays back and sounds bad.
While its good to have options, I just think its getting kinda silly. Emulations are only short term listenable to my ears. Which is why they sell. If you find that it works EVERYWHERE and on EVERYTHING, which is certainly its marketing claim, I would be surprised.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 9, 2017 10:00:40 GMT -6
The decline in quality of music coincides with the rise in the idea of celebrity for being celebrity over celebrity singer. Historically it was the music that paid the bills now the music is just the entrance to celebrity, celibrity means fashion, endorsements, reality, err unscripted drama shows. The time and energy that were in the past devoted to the writing and practice ( hell as long as you get it close to right once in pieces we can assemble, pitchshift it and reuse "live")! Now that Dulce & Gabana spread is going to pay the bills!
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 9, 2017 15:13:00 GMT -6
Wow! I don't even feel the need to put in my grumpy old 2 cents - you guys just said it all!
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 30, 2018 19:23:02 GMT -6
Sweetwater just posted a nice shootout between the Slate VMS, Antelope Edge, and Townsend Sphere. www.sweetwater.com/insync/virtual-mic-shootout-sound-samples/?utm_source=gearslutz&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=microphone-month&utm_content=thread-linkAll of these virtual mic systems have their benefits. Slate’s has the most microphone emulations and Steven isn’t one to stop where he is. I’m sure there are more on the horizon; like a Classic FET Collection. The Townsend’s stereo capabilities far outweigh their accuracy of their emulations. As a room mic or for stereo capture of an instrument, the possibilities are amazing. Personally I thought the Antelope sounded closest to the originals. Except Slate’s FG12, which was my favorite emulation on that mic and which shines here. That said, I still preferred the originals by a lot. That’s not to say you can’t make a good recording with any of these mics. What I would have liked to have heard was a source with some weight. I have found the low end to be very revealing on these mic systems. It’s one of the things I didn’t particularly like about the Slate VMS when I owned it; a lack of low end on the emulations that didn’t match their vintage counterparts. I haven’t heard the MKII versions though.
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Post by wiz on Apr 30, 2018 20:03:59 GMT -6
Sweetwater just posted a nice shootout between the Slate VMS, Antelope Edge, and Townsend Sphere. www.sweetwater.com/insync/virtual-mic-shootout-sound-samples/?utm_source=gearslutz&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=microphone-month&utm_content=thread-linkAll of these virtual mic systems have their benefits. Slate’s has the most microphone emulations and Steven isn’t one to stop where he is. I’m sure there are more on the horizon; like a Classic FET Collection. The Townsend’s stereo capabilities far outweigh their accuracy of their emulations. As a room mic or for stereo capture of an instrument, the possibilities are amazing. Personally I thought the Antelope sounded closest to the originals. Except Slate’s FG12, which was my favorite emulation on that mic and which shines here. That said, I still preferred the originals by a lot. That’s not to say you can’t make a good recording with any of these mics. What I would have liked to have heard was a source with some weight. I have found the low end to be very revealing on these mic systems. It’s one of the things I didn’t particularly like about the Slate VMS when I owned it; a lack of low end on the emulations that didn’t match their vintage counterparts. I haven’t heard the MKII versions though. I was most impressed, and I aint joking, by the vintage SM57 cheers Wiz
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 30, 2018 20:28:38 GMT -6
Sweetwater just posted a nice shootout between the Slate VMS, Antelope Edge, and Townsend Sphere. www.sweetwater.com/insync/virtual-mic-shootout-sound-samples/?utm_source=gearslutz&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=microphone-month&utm_content=thread-linkAll of these virtual mic systems have their benefits. Slate’s has the most microphone emulations and Steven isn’t one to stop where he is. I’m sure there are more on the horizon; like a Classic FET Collection. The Townsend’s stereo capabilities far outweigh their accuracy of their emulations. As a room mic or for stereo capture of an instrument, the possibilities are amazing. Personally I thought the Antelope sounded closest to the originals. Except Slate’s FG12, which was my favorite emulation on that mic and which shines here. That said, I still preferred the originals by a lot. That’s not to say you can’t make a good recording with any of these mics. What I would have liked to have heard was a source with some weight. I have found the low end to be very revealing on these mic systems. It’s one of the things I didn’t particularly like about the Slate VMS when I owned it; a lack of low end on the emulations that didn’t match their vintage counterparts. I haven’t heard the MKII versions though. I was most impressed, and I aint joking, by the vintage SM57 cheers Wiz Swiss Army knife.
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Post by jtc111 on Apr 30, 2018 20:59:42 GMT -6
I can see where these modeling systems would be useful to beginners who have no idea what microphone path to trod and are looking for a hint at that direction. But if you know the flavor you're after, there are better affordable choices out there (Advanced Audio, ADK, etc) if the reason for purchasing one of these is economics.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 30, 2018 21:39:24 GMT -6
What might be interesting is if this modeling technology somehow leads to the cloners building better clones by learning what it really is that makes the classics the classics!
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Post by iamasound on Apr 30, 2018 23:27:48 GMT -6
My friend is building a clone of the Warm WA-47 for me. Love that mic!
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Post by johneppstein on May 1, 2018 2:04:40 GMT -6
I don't know, guys. have you heard the songs that are #1 on Billboard lately? your fancy iconic piece of hardware doesn't really matter anymore. The songs getting hundreds of millions of youtube views sound like absolute shit, like the vocals were cut on an iPhone via GarageBand. But that's what is popular now. 195M views: Basically, the same song but with shittier vocals, recorded 3 years earlier. 113M views: You can covet all of that vintage analog gear you want, but the market speaks for how much they care about the gear used to make the music that is #1 on Billboard today... s1.postimg.org/7z9l9eob0f/Screen_Shot_2017-10-02_at_3.57.36_PM.pngTaylor Swift ain't even f*ckin' SINGING on the chorus anymore and this sh*t has 500M+ views! Wow u are so wrong regarding rap vocal chains .... Try Lauten Audio Eden lt386 into a Chandler Little Devil Pre with bright switch on into a Rupert Neve 551 eq .... So you ears are way off.. I don’t talk shit about music I don’t like ... And I dam sure don’t speak I’ll of hard working engineers who have invested thousands into their vocal chain then say it’s the equivalent Of an iPhone into GarageBand because the genre is not what I prefer to listen or support... U obviously don’t like the music but no need to disparage it... I have used GarageBand plenty to produce colors and edit... it’s free too! www.bboytechreport.com/2017/09/25/michael-ashby-lauten-audio-sonic-secrets-behind-cardi-bs-bodak-yellow/This is a joke - isn't it? Have you actually LISTENED top any of those "modern pop songs"?
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Post by johneppstein on May 1, 2018 2:12:28 GMT -6
The more I track acoustic guitars with 1k mics and above the more I get the impression it's not a big thing frequency wise but the dynamics start a new life with the expensive mics. I have my doubts they can simulate this after they used a 50 bucks China mic... Dynamics are a very important thing. Equally , if not more, important is off axis response, which you CANNOT duplicate with "modeling" software operating on a single digital stream. Can't do it. Physically impossible. How could you possibly differentiate off-axis from center? You can't. I've argued this with Steven at least a couple of times (once here) and he has been unable to come up with a satisfactory answer.
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Post by johneppstein on May 1, 2018 2:16:18 GMT -6
Sweetwater just posted a nice shootout between the Slate VMS, Antelope Edge, and Townsend Sphere. www.sweetwater.com/insync/virtual-mic-shootout-sound-samples/?utm_source=gearslutz&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=microphone-month&utm_content=thread-linkAll of these virtual mic systems have their benefits. Slate’s has the most microphone emulations and Steven isn’t one to stop where he is. I’m sure there are more on the horizon; like a Classic FET Collection. The Townsend’s stereo capabilities far outweigh their accuracy of their emulations. As a room mic or for stereo capture of an instrument, the possibilities are amazing. Personally I thought the Antelope sounded closest to the originals. Except Slate’s FG12, which was my favorite emulation on that mic and which shines here. That said, I still preferred the originals by a lot. That’s not to say you can’t make a good recording with any of these mics. What I would have liked to have heard was a source with some weight. I have found the low end to be very revealing on these mic systems. It’s one of the things I didn’t particularly like about the Slate VMS when I owned it; a lack of low end on the emulations that didn’t match their vintage counterparts. I haven’t heard the MKII versions though. How could you possibly differentiate the finer points of microphones on a crappy internet visero stream? Don't drink the Kool-Aid.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 1, 2018 4:37:04 GMT -6
The more I track acoustic guitars with 1k mics and above the more I get the impression it's not a big thing frequency wise but the dynamics start a new life with the expensive mics. I have my doubts they can simulate this after they used a 50 bucks China mic... Dynamics are a very important thing. Equally , if not more, important is off axis response, which you CANNOT duplicate with "modeling" software operating on a single digital stream. Can't do it. Physically impossible. How could you possibly differentiate off-axis from center? You can't. I've argued this with Steven at least a couple of times (once here) and he has been unable to come up with a satisfactory answer. Well if he were to model himself in 2d it wouldn’t matter and isn’t that the next step? A Modeled pitchman selling us a model of the talent to use his modeled gear?😁
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Post by Vincent R. on May 1, 2018 6:57:12 GMT -6
Sweetwater just posted a nice shootout between the Slate VMS, Antelope Edge, and Townsend Sphere. www.sweetwater.com/insync/virtual-mic-shootout-sound-samples/?utm_source=gearslutz&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=microphone-month&utm_content=thread-linkAll of these virtual mic systems have their benefits. Slate’s has the most microphone emulations and Steven isn’t one to stop where he is. I’m sure there are more on the horizon; like a Classic FET Collection. The Townsend’s stereo capabilities far outweigh their accuracy of their emulations. As a room mic or for stereo capture of an instrument, the possibilities are amazing. Personally I thought the Antelope sounded closest to the originals. Except Slate’s FG12, which was my favorite emulation on that mic and which shines here. That said, I still preferred the originals by a lot. That’s not to say you can’t make a good recording with any of these mics. What I would have liked to have heard was a source with some weight. I have found the low end to be very revealing on these mic systems. It’s one of the things I didn’t particularly like about the Slate VMS when I owned it; a lack of low end on the emulations that didn’t match their vintage counterparts. I haven’t heard the MKII versions though. How could you possibly differentiate the finer points of microphones on a crappy internet visero stream? Don't drink the Kool-Aid. It’s ok John. I drank the Kool-Aid and survived. That’s why I eventually sold my Slate VMS. I just thought some people might be interested in the shootout.
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Post by johneppstein on May 1, 2018 12:31:16 GMT -6
How could you possibly differentiate the finer points of microphones on a crappy internet visero stream? Don't drink the Kool-Aid. It’s ok John. I drank the Kool-Aid and survived. That’s why I eventually sold my Slate VMS. I just thought some people might be interested in the shootout. You must have some of that cyanide antidote I saw them use on NCIS the other day. And I thought it was just a TV fiction... I imagine that the shootout has a certain amount of entertainment value, if I had time to spare for it - but I'm usually using my computer and speakers for things that are more important to me.
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Post by iamasound on May 1, 2018 18:22:07 GMT -6
Dynamics are a very important thing. Equally , if not more, important is off axis response, which you CANNOT duplicate with "modeling" software operating on a single digital stream. Can't do it. Physically impossible. How could you possibly differentiate off-axis from center? You can't. I've argued this with Steven at least a couple of times (once here) and he has been unable to come up with a satisfactory answer. Well if he were to model himself in 2d it wouldn’t matter and isn’t that the next step? A Modeled pitchman selling us a model of the talent to use his modeled gear?😁 That is a scary model of the future.
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Post by matt on May 1, 2018 19:27:36 GMT -6
Well if he were to model himself in 2d There's a serious theory in Physics that postulates the entire universe as a hologram. A projection of everything onto (into?) something else. Or something. Right now I'm projecting a fresh, ice cold Stella Artois into a freezer-stored namesake chalice, and it's definitely 3-D. And that's all that matters just now. Here's a thought: are you sure that Steven has not always been a 2-D projection?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 1, 2018 19:37:21 GMT -6
Well if he were to model himself in 2d There's a serious theory in Physics that postulates the entire universe as a hologram. A project of everything onto (into?) something else. Or something. Right now I'm projecting a fresh, ice cold Stella Artois into a freezer-stored namesake chalice, and it's definitely 3-D. And that's all that matters just now. Here's a thought: are you sure that Steven has not always been a 2-D projection? Well he has always has had a very on dimensional agenda 😁 So yeah!
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Post by bricejchandler on May 2, 2018 1:11:58 GMT -6
I listened to the shootout and I can't imagine anyone picking a modeled mic over the original. The Slate's highs were very "chinese capsule" sounding to me and they all lacked the weight and the natural compression of the originals .
I think the reason one might be tempted by these is because of the fact that in that price range, at least from what I've seen there aren't a lot of options available for a good new vocal large diaphragm condenser mic. With a $2000 budget, I can think of a lot of great vocal mics that I'd be super happy with but around $1000 I can't really think of any, Shure ksm44 maybe?
I'd probably pick an SDC at that price like a Josephson e22S or a schoeps cardio mic ( I've cut a lot of vocals with the MK4), or just an SM7 along with one of the Roswell mics that sound surprisingly good for the price.
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Post by adamjbrass on May 2, 2018 6:20:01 GMT -6
anyone try the Gauge mic modeler yet?
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Post by Vincent R. on May 2, 2018 6:46:43 GMT -6
I listened to the shootout and I can't imagine anyone picking a modeled mic over the original. The Slate's highs were very "chinese capsule" sounding to me and they all lacked the weight and the natural compression of the originals . I think the reason one might be tempted by these is because of the fact that in that price range, at least from what I've seen there aren't a lot of options available for a good new vocal large diaphragm condenser mic. With a $2000 budget, I can think of a lot of great vocal mics that I'd be super happy with but around $1000 I can't really think of any, Shure ksm44 maybe? I'd probably pick an SDC at that price like a Josephson e22S or a schoeps cardio mic ( I've cut a lot of vocals with the MK4), or just an SM7 along with one of the Roswell mics that sound surprisingly good for the price. Pretty much every mic Advanced Audio makes is about $900 and change. They all completely decimated my KSM44 and beat out the VMS on multiple sources. Now Warm has a decent Mic in that price range, which is probably in the same category as the AA Mics. The modeling Mics can provide a newbie a chance to hear what some of the classics might sound like on their work and aim them toward better high-end Mics in the future. It can also give them a cushion if they are not sure which mic may work best on a certain source. VMS will easily beat out most microphones in the sub $1000 category. The one main time I used the VMS was for a soprano I recorded on my friend’s album. We didn’t like what we were getting on my U87. I had originally believed the 251 was going to be her microphone. I ended up using the FG67 instead. If I had committed and used my advanced audio 251 her voice would’ve been much brighter than it needed to be with in the context of that song. Then again, my friend was using my AA CM67LE in vintage mode, so it made sense that Slate’s FG67, although a little brighter, was more cohesive sounding in the duet.
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Post by jtc111 on May 2, 2018 7:32:40 GMT -6
Pretty much every mic Advanced Audio makes is about $900 and change. They all completely decimated my KSM44 and beat out the VMS on multiple sources. I heard a bunch of Vincent's shootouts and the VMR wasn't just beat out by the AA mics, it got spanked. I was surprised the difference was as much as it was.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 2, 2018 7:49:45 GMT -6
anyone try the Gauge mic modeler yet? Nooooo Adam not more! I’ll still never forget this little guy from Japan trying to impress us with the original Roland system in the VS880 days and everybody taking turns walking out and into the warehouse so he couldn’t hear us burst out laughing! But hey we both know it will move boxes!
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