|
Post by Vincent R. on Oct 23, 2017 7:13:06 GMT -6
Maybe I'm late to the game, but it looks like Black Spade has a new website and a couple of new high end mics, The RS2 which is a 251 style mic and the RS4 which can be made into a U47 style mic or an M49B style microphone. Their original mics are still there, but renamed the UM4X, UM49B, UM12, and UM250. Interesting. www.bsa-microphones.chNo renaming, they're all new models. There's two new UM series models with competitive pricing, a C12, an ELAM 250, and the two RS series mics. I'm a big fan. I have two of the UM49B's which I bought as custom builds a few years ago. I'm very happy to see they released them as a production model. Same performance level as my Flea, and remember it's rare to find manufacturers who make the B version. I only know of BSA and FLEA who do it properly, with bulky and quiet PSU's. Everyone does the C instead. The new Beesneez is a good example of this, it's super expensive but disappointingly another C remake. Yeah, the Advanced Audio CM49 I use these days is also based on the sonic qualities of an M49C too.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Oct 23, 2017 7:45:20 GMT -6
jakeharris I'm curious which you prefer, the FLEA 49 or the UM49B? What similarities and differences do they have? What capsules are in each of them? I wonder how much difference the difference headgrills make.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 23, 2017 8:42:54 GMT -6
It's all new models, no renaming. There's two new UM series models with competitive pricing, a C12, an ELAM 250, and the two RS series mics. I'm a big fan. I have two of the UM49B's which I bought as custom builds a few years ago. Very happy to see they released it as a production model. Same performance level as my FLEA, and it's rare to find manufacturers who make the B version properly. I only know of BSA and FLEA, with bulky and quiet PSU's. Everyone does the C instead. What's the story here? How are the UM and RS mics different? From Blackspade...
|
|
|
Post by jakeharris on Oct 23, 2017 9:06:44 GMT -6
jakeharris I'm curious which you prefer, the FLEA 49 or the UM49B? What similarities and differences do they have? What capsules are in each of them? I wonder how much difference the difference headgrills make. Sound is the same, nothing between them. Both in same performance class. In a comparison the decision falls to aesthetics vs cost: FLEA wins aesthetics, BSA easily wins cost. In my case, I bought a FLEA 49 s/h, a pair of custom BSA 49B's, and a new 47 Next. Ended up selling the FLEA 49, and kept the BSA's and 47 Next. Should mention I went all out and also bought the RS Series PSU's too. No regrets, all these mics sound amazing. For differences and similarities, my BSA's have the same Russian tubes as the FLEA, and instead of the FLEA F7, use Blue Thiersch M7's. Both have European BV11's. I see they're offering the Haun K47 on the RS4 though – that's an *amazing* capsule. I'd consider asking for that on the UM49B, as you've already confirmed you like the K47. Otherwise, I love the Blue Thiersch, smooth and lush, and just the right amount of highs for me. Not convinced grill shape makes all that much difference in tone though, the signature sound of these mics is definitely in the amp. Mesh layers make more of a difference to me, and both use the same setup (3-layers).
|
|
|
Post by adamjbrass on Oct 23, 2017 9:09:34 GMT -6
head grill shape and acoustics easily amount to 1/3 of the microphone's sound. The acoustics near the capsule are important
|
|
|
Post by jakeharris on Oct 24, 2017 10:58:33 GMT -6
head grill shape and acoustics easily amount to 1/3 of the microphone's sound. The acoustics near the capsule are important Put a round headbasket on the M49, and it will still sound like an M49. Reflections and resonances might change, but it will still be an easily recognisable M49. Change either the capsule, transformer or circuit, and game over. No more M49.
|
|
|
Post by adamjbrass on Oct 24, 2017 12:14:33 GMT -6
No, I disagree. The M49 head shape makes the image different.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Oct 24, 2017 15:50:34 GMT -6
Chances are I'm going to go with the FLEA 49. I love the vintage style look. My big debate now is do I go with the K47 style capsule or the M7 style capsule. I worry about the M7 being a bit dark. Trying to get in front of one. The one I demoed had the K47, and sounded great on me.
|
|
|
Post by jakeharris on Oct 24, 2017 15:59:05 GMT -6
No, I disagree. The M49 head shape makes the image different. Capsule > Transformer > Circuit+Tube > PSU > Bodykit Everytime...
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Oct 24, 2017 16:25:29 GMT -6
Chances are I'm going to go with the FLEA 49. I love the vintage style look. My big debate now is do I go with the K47 style capsule or the M7 style capsule. I worry about the M7 being a bit dark. Trying to get in front of one. The one I demoed had the K47, and sounded great on me. A different beast obviously but I don't find our Flea 47 with the M7 dark. I think however the different head basket designs between the 47 and 49 do make some differences regardless of the other components. The parallel sides of the 47 head basket will affect the frequencies that correspond in wavelength to the distance between the capsule face and the mesh and to a lesser degree the distance between the opposite sides of the head basket. This may be subtle but no doubt will colour the sound. The angled head basket of the 49 should (theoretically) have less effect and I would expect it to be somewhat smoother in the mid range region than a 47 which is characterised by its midrange presence.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Oct 24, 2017 16:52:36 GMT -6
Chances are I'm going to go with the FLEA 49. I love the vintage style look. My big debate now is do I go with the K47 style capsule or the M7 style capsule. I worry about the M7 being a bit dark. Trying to get in front of one. The one I demoed had the K47, and sounded great on me. A different beast obviously but I don't find our Flea 47 with the M7 dark. I think however the different head basket designs between the 47 and 49 do make some differences regardless of the other components. The parallel sides of the 47 head basket will affect the frequencies that correspond in wavelength to the distance between the capsule face and the mesh and to a lesser degree the distance between the opposite sides of the head basket. This may be subtle but no doubt will colour the sound. The angled head basket of the 49 should (theoretically) have less effect and I would expect it to be somewhat smoother in the mid range region than a 47 which is characterised by its midrange presence. Hey rowmatwhere did you get your flea from? is it the Next version? How much did it sting you? cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Oct 24, 2017 17:24:17 GMT -6
A different beast obviously but I don't find our Flea 47 with the M7 dark. I think however the different head basket designs between the 47 and 49 do make some differences regardless of the other components. The parallel sides of the 47 head basket will affect the frequencies that correspond in wavelength to the distance between the capsule face and the mesh and to a lesser degree the distance between the opposite sides of the head basket. This may be subtle but no doubt will colour the sound. The angled head basket of the 49 should (theoretically) have less effect and I would expect it to be somewhat smoother in the mid range region than a 47 which is characterised by its midrange presence. Hey rowmat where did you get your flea from? is it the Next version? How much did it sting you? cheers Wiz It's the 'Vintage' version (Cardioid, Omni) and I bought it from Awave in November, 2015 for $5390 AUD which translated to the same as US pricing ($4075 USD) at the time based on the conversion rate. So it would have cost me about $800 more to import it from the US with freight, GST and customs duty and I would not have had any local warranty. As it turned out there was a problem with my Flea 47 (it crackled with the slightest vibration - maybe a loose tube?) and Awave swapped it for another Flea 47 within the week.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Oct 24, 2017 17:37:36 GMT -6
Hey rowmat where did you get your flea from? is it the Next version? How much did it sting you? cheers Wiz It's the 'Vintage' version (Cardioid, Omni) and I bought it from Awave in November, 2015 for $5390 AUD which translated to the same as US pricing ($4075 USD) at the time based on the conversion rate. So it would have cost me about $800 more to import it from the US with freight, GST and customs duty and I would not have had any local warranty. As it turned out there was a problem with my Flea 47 (it crackled with the slightest vibration - maybe a loose tube?) and Awave swapped it for another Flea 47 within the week. Thanks for that cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Oct 24, 2017 17:49:29 GMT -6
Chances are I'm going to go with the FLEA 49. I love the vintage style look. My big debate now is do I go with the K47 style capsule or the M7 style capsule. I worry about the M7 being a bit dark. Trying to get in front of one. The one I demoed had the K47, and sounded great on me. A different beast obviously but I don't find our Flea 47 with the M7 dark. I think however the different head basket designs between the 47 and 49 do make some differences regardless of the other components. The parallel sides of the 47 head basket will affect the frequencies that correspond in wavelength to the distance between the capsule face and the mesh and to a lesser degree the distance between the opposite sides of the head basket. This may be subtle but no doubt will colour the sound. The angled head basket of the 49 should (theoretically) have less effect and I would expect it to be somewhat smoother in the mid range region than a 47 which is characterised by its midrange presence. Yeah, jtc111 's FLEA 47 has the F7. I don't feel it's overly dark either. At least VK will exchange it within 30 days if I buy the F7 version and decide to exchange it for the F47.
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Oct 24, 2017 18:28:42 GMT -6
A different beast obviously but I don't find our Flea 47 with the M7 dark. I think however the different head basket designs between the 47 and 49 do make some differences regardless of the other components. The parallel sides of the 47 head basket will affect the frequencies that correspond in wavelength to the distance between the capsule face and the mesh and to a lesser degree the distance between the opposite sides of the head basket. This may be subtle but no doubt will colour the sound. The angled head basket of the 49 should (theoretically) have less effect and I would expect it to be somewhat smoother in the mid range region than a 47 which is characterised by its midrange presence. Yeah, jtc111 's FLEA 47 has the F7. I don't feel it's overly dark either. At least VK will exchange it within 30 days if I buy the F7 version and decide to exchange it for the F47. I should have been clearer but the F7 (which my Flea 47 is fitted with) is supposed to be Flea's take on the M7. QUOTE: From Flea website... "Actually this mic is an exact replica of the U47. It is equipped with F7 capsule – our exact replica of M7 capsule."
Maybe others who have more insight to Flea's capsules and the original Neumann versions could chime in?
|
|
|
Post by joseph on Oct 24, 2017 18:37:44 GMT -6
Isn't the Flea F7 Mylar anyway?
Anyway, I have one. Stunning mic.
I would just get the F47 if you like it on your voice. It's not like your voice is prone to sibilance.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 24, 2017 18:44:12 GMT -6
I ordered a Flea 47 today.
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Oct 24, 2017 18:51:23 GMT -6
Isn't the Flea F7 Mylar anyway? Anyway, I have one. Stunning mic. I would just get the F47 if you like it on your voice. It's not like your voice is prone to sibilance. Yes mylar. PVC was the original M7 diaprahgm material but it deteriorates over time. I can't see that using mylar is an issue except maybe for the purists or those who dig the sound of a deteriorating PVC capsule!
|
|
|
Post by joseph on Oct 24, 2017 19:18:17 GMT -6
Isn't the Flea F7 Mylar anyway? Anyway, I have one. Stunning mic. I would just get the F47 if you like it on your voice. It's not like your voice is prone to sibilance. Yes mylar. PVC was the original M7 diaprahgm material but it deteriorates over time. I can't see that using mylar is an issue except maybe for the purists or those who dig the sound of a deteriorating PVC capsule! Yep, that's what I was alluding to. Seems most people have prefer the Flea to the Thiersch capsules in their mics anyway. Klaus Heyne seems to think PVC is not what it used to be, oh well. repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=36846.0
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 24, 2017 19:19:24 GMT -6
I've had three Thiersch M7 capsules, two Blueline, one Redline. They sound just a little different. Red took a strong hit a little better, but they're almost indistinguishable.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Oct 25, 2017 5:45:20 GMT -6
No, I disagree. The M49 head shape makes the image different. Capsule > Transformer > Circuit+Tube > PSU > Bodykit Everytime... You realize you're defying 'commonly accepted knowledge' with those facts, right? [roll eyes] After all, to make a U47 U67 or WA87 sound like an M49, you just have to change the head basket [/roll eyes] Kind regards!
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Oct 25, 2017 7:14:08 GMT -6
I've had three Thiersch M7 capsules, two Blueline, one Redline. They sound just a little different. Red took a strong hit a little better, but they're almost indistinguishable. yes, but you Martin John Butler understand and hear the subtle differences!
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Oct 25, 2017 7:19:15 GMT -6
Yeah, jtc111 's FLEA 47 has the F7. I don't feel it's overly dark either. At least VK will exchange it within 30 days if I buy the F7 version and decide to exchange it for the F47. I should have been clearer but the F7 (which my Flea 47 is fitted with) is supposed to be Flea's take on the M7. QUOTE: From Flea website... "Actually this mic is an exact replica of the U47. It is equipped with F7 capsule – our exact replica of M7 capsule."
Maybe others who have more insight to Flea's capsules and the original Neumann versions could chime in? www.flea-microphones.com/parts.html I am fond of the M7 capsule and the microphones I have with one, but I think the K47 capsule has a slight edge in the U47 world. It has more 'bark' which is a lot of what people like a U47/U48/clone for. The M7 is a much better choice in lighter applications. JMHO
|
|
|
Post by adamjbrass on Oct 25, 2017 7:22:48 GMT -6
Capsule > Transformer > Circuit+Tube > PSU > Bodykit Everytime... You realize you're defying 'commonly accepted knowledge' with those facts, right? [roll eyes] After all, to make a U47 U67 or WA87 sound like an M49, you just have to change the head basket [/roll eyes] Kind regards! Here is the accepted Knowledge I have acquired in my travels: To get the M49 sound you need the M49 head shape. peace a.j.b
|
|
|
Post by jakeharris on Oct 25, 2017 7:23:31 GMT -6
I should have been clearer but the F7 (which my Flea 47 is fitted with) is supposed to be Flea's take on the M7. QUOTE: From Flea website... "Actually this mic is an exact replica of the U47. It is equipped with F7 capsule – our exact replica of M7 capsule."
Maybe others who have more insight to Flea's capsules and the original Neumann versions could chime in? FLEA's translation of the word 'exact' is extremely loose. There's a funny thread on the Klaus forum, where they're trying to mod a FLEA 47, and they're all concluding the mic must be broken or badly designed because none of the components match the original schematic... It just doesn't use the original schematic at all. The FLEA F7 should also be the same as the Thiersch Redline, as they're both skinned by Thiersch. Doesn't change that it's a great mic one bit though – brings up the key point that manufacturers don't drop in an exact 1950's schematic, a bunch of modern components, and then wish for the best (a la DIY). All these boutique mics are heavily modified with proprietary circuits, and not only adjusted/equalised for the new components, but also modified to equalise any differences in the bodywork.
|
|