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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 4, 2017 10:12:59 GMT -6
I spoke to Robert from RMS Audio Works via email. He's a nice guy. I actually reached out to try and demo his RMS269 for my wife. Unfortunately he doesn't have any available to demo. He did offer me a discount on a purchase if I agreed to make a video on the microphone, so it may be something to consider down the road. I also asked about his RMS49. He advised those are made to order and historically accurate to the M49, so he didn't have demos of that either. His RMS49LE has the same circuit, but it's not historically accurate. Again, he offered me a discount if I decided to pick one up and agreed to make a video. If I were closer to him I'd probably try and meet with him, but alas. As I said, I was really curious about an M269 for my wife's voice. I was finally able to get her in the studio to try nearly every mic in here; U87ai, MKU67, BLUE Rocket with B0 & B8, CM12le, CM67se, CM251, even the CL REDD, and the FLEA 49. Of them all both myself, my wife, and a few of my engineer friends all felt the U87ai and FLEA 49 worked on her voice, however the U87ai is the one we all kept coming back to. That said, I have a love/hate relationship with my U87ai. On Emily it really captures the heart of her voice. What's missing is the intimacy you get with a tube mic vs a FET mic. The BLUE with the B8 is designed to have a U87 like flavor. It adds the intimacy that's missing, but loses the "smokey quality" as my wife put it. It just doesn't have the saturation qualities of the U87. It's clean or sterile sounding, depending on your point of view. Which is the same thing I found with the B7 vs the FLEA 47. The MK U67 is just a tad too dark. I could make it work on the crooning stuff, but the opera just didn't work. The U87ai still captured the right quality from Emily's voice over the MK U67. The CM251 lost some of her beautiful mid range and was very forward in the mix, but was still nice. Neither of the C12ish mics worked right either for what were working on. The CM67se, which has a modded 67 style mic is too bright. So, I was curious about that M269 style mic. My rep from Alto music offered to let me try the Soyuz 017 on her. I may take him up on it after my concerts this weekend. We'll see. I also need to try the MK U67 in modded mode on her. I have a feeling that will also be a bit too bright for what I'm going for. Either way, I was happy to see the U87ai which I own and the Flea 49 which I'm saving for both work on her voice. So, at the worse we'll just use those two. I also need to try the U87ai through a couple of tube amps. That may help. That mic changes character notoriously well depending on the preamp used. I'm curious to hear her sing through the Tab Funk V78M. My buddy jtc111 has a Demeter VTMP that may also work. Anyway, I digress. Back to the M49 search.
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Post by nudwig on Oct 18, 2017 19:10:30 GMT -6
I thought I'd contribute to this thread as it was so informative for me. I also had the M49 bug (fueled to a fever pitch with Vincent's excellent samples) and ended up getting the AMI M49 kit. After a lot of patience and searching I lucked out and found a good ac701 and a used K47/49 for it. It has all the magical qualities I remembered from using a 49 years ago (don't know which revision as I was just a guest in that session). Haven't had a chance to conduct a side by side so I can't say how close it is but I'm very happy and it came in cheaper that all the other options I was lusting after. I've only used it on client tracks so far but I'll see if I can get something to post soon. I'll put it up against an IO Audio 67 as that seems to be a somewhat familiar reference. I should also add the metal work is excellent, highly recommended.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2017 19:17:44 GMT -6
I thought I'd contribute to this thread as it was so informative for me. I also had the M49 bug (fueled to a fever pitch with Vincent's excellent samples) and ended up getting the AMI M49 kit. After a lot of patience and searching I lucked out and found a good ac701 and a used K47/49 for it. It has all the magical qualities I remembered from using a 49 years ago (don't know which revision as I was just a guest in that session). Haven't had a chance to conduct a side by side so I can't say how close it is but I'm very happy and it came in cheaper that all the other options I was lusting after. I've only used it on client tracks so far but I'll see if I can get something to post soon. I'll put it up against an IO Audio 67 as that seems to be a somewhat familiar reference. I should also add the metal work is excellent, highly recommended. Welcome, sounds like quite the mic! Most M49 clones seam to skip the 701 with very degrees of success, but the closer you build to the real thing the closer it gets.
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 18, 2017 20:41:38 GMT -6
I thought I'd contribute to this thread as it was so informative for me. I also had the M49 bug (fueled to a fever pitch with Vincent's excellent samples) and ended up getting the AMI M49 kit. After a lot of patience and searching I lucked out and found a good ac701 and a used K47/49 for it. It has all the magical qualities I remembered from using a 49 years ago (don't know which revision as I was just a guest in that session). Haven't had a chance to conduct a side by side so I can't say how close it is but I'm very happy and it came in cheaper that all the other options I was lusting after. I've only used it on client tracks so far but I'll see if I can get something to post soon. I'll put it up against an IO Audio 67 as that seems to be a somewhat familiar reference. I should also add the metal work is excellent, highly recommended. Would love to hear it. I'm no DIYer. Wish I were. Either way, I look forward to hearing it. Someone out of Brooklyn is building and selling this kit on reverb and eBay, although obviously not with a 701 tube. I've debated reaching out, but at that price it's not too off from what I can get the FLEA 49 for.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2017 21:00:33 GMT -6
I thought I'd contribute to this thread as it was so informative for me. I also had the M49 bug (fueled to a fever pitch with Vincent's excellent samples) and ended up getting the AMI M49 kit. After a lot of patience and searching I lucked out and found a good ac701 and a used K47/49 for it. It has all the magical qualities I remembered from using a 49 years ago (don't know which revision as I was just a guest in that session). Haven't had a chance to conduct a side by side so I can't say how close it is but I'm very happy and it came in cheaper that all the other options I was lusting after. I've only used it on client tracks so far but I'll see if I can get something to post soon. I'll put it up against an IO Audio 67 as that seems to be a somewhat familiar reference. I should also add the metal work is excellent, highly recommended. Would love to hear it. I'm no DIYer. Wish I were. Either way, I look forward to hearing it. Someone out of Brooklyn is building and selling this kit on reverb and eBay, although obviously not with a 701 tube. I've debated reaching out. Always worth a look!
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 18, 2017 21:25:58 GMT -6
Maybe.
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2017 21:36:59 GMT -6
Maybe. Hey at least send the guy an email, I have made some great friends from gear enquieries, but if your spiffs sences tingle, drop it!
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Post by nudwig on Oct 18, 2017 21:50:12 GMT -6
I saw that too, a bit pricey for the stock parts. Maybe if you could get it at that price with the M7 and source the Phaedrus ac701 that'd be a nice setup. I haven't heard or known anyone who used the Phaedrus 'tube' yet but I'm curious. I ended up with an extra Thiersch redline and was thinking of going this route if I wanted another one.
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 18, 2017 23:05:29 GMT -6
I emailed the guy. He's fairly close to me. Maybe he'll accept my offer to meet. Maybe not. We'll see.
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2017 7:52:47 GMT -6
I saw that too, a bit pricey for the stock parts. Maybe if you could get it at that price with the M7 and source the Phaedrus ac701 that'd be a nice setup. I haven't heard or known anyone who used the Phaedrus 'tube' yet but I'm curious. I ended up with an extra Thiersch redline and was thinking of going this route if I wanted another one. The Phaedrus seams to be just another variation of the solid state AC701 substitute that has been around for a while with various levels of success. For the life of me I don't understand why if this is such a great alternative why nobody has simply implemented this circuit in a 49 clone PCB, one would think it would be simpler and the power supply would be simplified!
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Post by jakeharris on Oct 19, 2017 12:30:30 GMT -6
The Phaedrus seams to be just another variation of the solid state AC701 substitute that has been around for a while with various levels of success. For the life of me I don't understand why if this is such a great alternative why nobody has simply implemented this circuit in a 49 clone PCB, one would think it would be simpler and the power supply would be simplified! Circuit stays the same. And you still need an overbuilt PSU feeding the same plate/heater voltages, as if it was a real AC701. The main reason no-one's biting, it's a lot cheaper to use a substitute real tube. Up to 200 times cheaper for a 5840.
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 19, 2017 13:36:54 GMT -6
Maybe. Hey at least send the guy an email, I have made some great friends from gear enquieries, but if your spiffs sences tingle, drop it! Hey, he got back to me. His demo, which has a Thiesch M7 in it, is out in use and should be back in a week. Then I'll arrange to head out there and try it. I'll bring my CM49 as a reference. If he'll give me a half hour to sing through a couple of song sequences I'll know right away what I'm dealing with. 1 opera, 1 crooning, 1 pop. We'll see. It would save me $1000 or so.
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Post by jakeharris on Oct 19, 2017 13:46:37 GMT -6
You can buy that bodykit on GDIY.
Get someone to build it for you, even use a Flea K47, and save yourself $2-$2.5K
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 19, 2017 15:27:22 GMT -6
You can buy that bodykit on GDIY. Get someone to build it for you, even use a Flea K47, and save yourself $2-$2.5K If I knew some one personally who could I might, but I would still want to hear it first. I'm still pretty set on the FLEA despite the additional expense. More than anything it brought this real clarity to my voice, but still had heft. I also know a couple of guys whose opinions I respect who swear by them. But, since this guy is local, I'd be willing to meet him and try it. If it's as good, then I have some options including simply have this tech build me one.
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Post by jakeharris on Oct 19, 2017 19:07:19 GMT -6
Sure, just saying if you go down this route, there's no need to pay $3K. He's just assembling a kit, and then doubling/tripling the cost.
When you buy a $4K mic from a boutique manufacturer, you get a unique design they've put years of work into, a warranty, support from a local dealer, and resale value based on brand reputation. Whole different set of parameters dictating the final price. In contrast, DIY is meant to be cheap. If an assembled DIY mic ends up being basically the same price as a boutique mic, then it's too expensive. In this case, the RMS M49LE is the much better buy for the same money.
That aside, the Flea you like is based on the M49B. Not many manufacturers make them, most make the M49C. Make sure to ask him what his build is based on. The C version uses a much simpler PSU, and isn't as nice on vocals (less lowend).
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 19, 2017 19:17:30 GMT -6
jakeharris, all reasons I'm still pretty set on the FLEA.
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Post by winetree on Oct 20, 2017 11:31:27 GMT -6
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 20, 2017 11:48:48 GMT -6
Yup. That's the guy I reached out to.
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Post by jazzcabbage on Oct 20, 2017 19:09:34 GMT -6
The M49's at Capitol are amazing. Just mind blowing. The pair at Conway are crazy insanely good at putting you into a time machine. A sense of realism I rarely experience from a mic. Sigh...... Good luck. If you find one with the dust in it, let us know..... I wonder if those have the M7 or K47/49 capsule and if so have been re-skinned and by whom. Almost 70 years have gone by, parts fail caps dry up etc. A typical re-cap changes the tone, tube replacement, and in the case of the M7 most definitely a re-skin. Whoever performed the repairs must have done an impeccable job maintaining them to perfect spec or (cough cough) made them perform even better than spec.
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Post by drbill on Oct 20, 2017 19:13:11 GMT -6
Don't know, but Capitol and Conway are two of the best and have on staff tech guys.
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Post by rowmat on Oct 21, 2017 2:29:46 GMT -6
Sure, just saying if you go down this route, there's no need to pay $3K. He's just assembling a kit, and then doubling/tripling the cost. When you buy a $4K mic from a boutique manufacturer, you get a unique design they've put years of work into, a warranty, support from a local dealer, and resale value based on brand reputation. Whole different set of parameters dictating the final price. In contrast, DIY is meant to be cheap. If an assembled DIY mic ends up being basically the same price as a boutique mic, then it's too expensive. In this case, the RMS M49LE is the much better buy for the same money. That aside, the Flea you like is based on the M49B. Not many manufacturers make them, most make the M49C. Make sure to ask him what his build is based on. The C version uses a much simpler PSU, and isn't as nice on vocals (less lowend). Agreed. DIY needs to be cheap or the numbers rapidly cease to work. A DIY version of a $4k mic may say cost $1500 using decent quality parts excluding labor. Resale maybe less than half this, even as low as $500, as who really wants to take a chance on a DIY mic? So you could easily lose 2/3rd's of your cost ($1000) excluding labor assuming you can find a buyer. You are likely to take less of a hit on a Flea or similar when it comes to reselling it.
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 22, 2017 17:31:24 GMT -6
Maybe I'm late to the game, but it looks like Black Spade has a new website and a couple of new high end mics, The RS2 which is a 251 style mic and the RS4 which can be made into a U47 style mic or an M49B style microphone. Their original mics are still there, but renamed the UM4X, UM49B, UM12, and UM250. Interesting. www.bsa-microphones.ch
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Post by jeremygillespie on Oct 22, 2017 21:23:38 GMT -6
Maybe I'm late to the game, but it looks like Black Spade has a new website and a couple of new high end mics, The RS2 which is a 251 style mic and the RS4 which can be made into a U47 style mic or an M49B style microphone. Their original mics are still there, but renamed the UM4X, UM49B, UM12, and UM250. Interesting. www.bsa-microphones.chOur 269 is up and running again after some downtime. I’m super slammed right now, but if you’re able to come hang for an afternoon you’re more than welcome to if the studio isn’t being used. Most likely won’t be for about a month. Bring some mics you’re used to hearing and you can belt into any number of what we have. You’re in NYC right? We are an 45 mins to an hour from GWB.
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 22, 2017 22:50:53 GMT -6
Maybe I'm late to the game, but it looks like Black Spade has a new website and a couple of new high end mics, The RS2 which is a 251 style mic and the RS4 which can be made into a U47 style mic or an M49B style microphone. Their original mics are still there, but renamed the UM4X, UM49B, UM12, and UM250. Interesting. www.bsa-microphones.chOur 269 is up and running again after some downtime. I’m super slammed right now, but if you’re able to come hang for an afternoon you’re more than welcome to if the studio isn’t being used. Most likely won’t be for about a month. Bring some mics you’re used to hearing and you can belt into any number of what we have. You’re in NYC right? We are an 45 mins to an hour from GWB. On Long Island. That sounds cool. I'll PM you.
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Post by jakeharris on Oct 23, 2017 7:02:50 GMT -6
Maybe I'm late to the game, but it looks like Black Spade has a new website and a couple of new high end mics, The RS2 which is a 251 style mic and the RS4 which can be made into a U47 style mic or an M49B style microphone. Their original mics are still there, but renamed the UM4X, UM49B, UM12, and UM250. Interesting. www.bsa-microphones.chIt's all new models, no renaming. There's two new UM series models with competitive pricing, a C12, an ELAM 250, and the two RS series mics. I'm a big fan. I have two of the UM49B's which I bought as custom builds a few years ago. Very happy to see they released it as a production model. Same performance level as my FLEA, and it's rare to find manufacturers who make the B version properly. I only know of BSA and FLEA, with bulky and quiet PSU's. Everyone does the C instead. The new Beesneez is a good example of this, it's super expensive but disappointingly another C remake.
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