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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 28, 2017 20:44:07 GMT -6
Wunder CM49 vs FLEA 49 vs FLEA 49 Next? Now that I officially have the bug for an M49 mic, has anyone tried any of these? Heck I'm curious if anyone has tried the Flea 49 Next vs the standard Flea 49. I don't want to spend 3k on the next and think, oh if only I'd spent the extra grand. Same for the Wunder. I don't want to spend 4K on the Flea and think, maybe I should have just saved for the Wunder. I cannot find any clips directly comparing these to each other.
I had the Flea 47 in my studio last month and was floored at how good it sound. Different than the Wagner U47W I had tried in the past. It actually worked better on my voice than the Wagner which had a larger low end, probably due to the VF14 tube vs the EF12. So right now the plan is to save for a FLEA 49, but I figured I'd ask about the Wunder and the Next and see if anyone has any thoughts. I'm actually thinking of getting the FLEA 249 which has the more readily available cable.
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Post by jampa on Jul 28, 2017 21:56:26 GMT -6
I vaguely recall that Rode may be developing an m49 style mic too
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Post by unit7 on Jul 28, 2017 22:01:23 GMT -6
I've had a pair of Flea 249s for 5 yrs. Lovely mics. Used it on number of intruments piano, acoustic, drum overhead, big band instruments, strings, woodwinds etc etc and it always makes me smile. If I'll ever move to a bigger place another pair is on my list.
Note that it's pretty unhyped/flat. I believe I read in 'Recording the Beatles' that Neumann designed the M49/50 for classical music, hence the flat response, and that the group, who of course experimented and tried everything, were among the first to use it for close miced pop vocals, although I don't think they used it that much.
IME for vocals it works best for vocals that has a lot of air and don't need a HF lift. I've had it up against a number of other hi end tube mics (U67, Original/Grosser U47, Gefell UM57, Lucas CS-1 & 4 etc) on like 50+ different vocalists. I'd say that in the cases you go wow it's more often (70% perhaps) on female vocals. Again, on more dull vocals it can be a bit meh, though it of course take eq very well.
You really should try before you buy.. Don't know about the US retailers but when you buy directly from Flea (EU only perhaps?) you can return the mic and get a full refund if you're not happy. And finally, Ivan of Flea is GREAT to deal with. Fast on email. Super service minded. Actually took in my pair for service/mod because of a new revision (I think..) last year. He ordered/payed FedEx both ways.
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Post by sean on Jul 28, 2017 23:09:34 GMT -6
I have a Flea 49 Next...I'm still undecided about it. Sometimes it seems pretty dull, other times just fine...it just doesn't blow me away. I think on Monday I'll toss up our old Telefunken 47, Flea 49, Brauner Valvet and maybe a Jim Williams modified 414 or the TLM103 we have and just compare them all side by side since I'm working with a friend
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Post by jakeharris on Jul 29, 2017 4:07:31 GMT -6
Since you like the Flea 47, I have a 47 Next I'll gladly trade for something else. Mics only.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 29, 2017 5:56:33 GMT -6
jampa, I've been reaching out to R0DE since they announced it and their TFM50. They have no new information on the release or price point. I like R0DE mics as they are dependable and clean sounding, but they generally don't thrill me. These two mics peaked my interest though. unit7, I have experience with a few M49 inspired microphones. My first came in a session where the engineer/producer and I kept debating between the Korby Kat 67 and a custom Korby 49 head. The 49 head was really nice and neutral sounding. I then picked up and Advanced Audio CM49 which has a very similar sound, but is on the whole a brighter microphone. I also own an MK U67 kit that I use with my U87ai. On the whole, the clarity and way the CM49 captures my voice is closer to what I want than the more neutral and richer/darker sounding MK U67. The MK U67 needs quite a bit of EQ. The CM49 needs little to no EQ, just a rolloff on the top to take some of the brightness out. So now that I have a really high quality U67 style mic, I really want to grab an M49. It's nice to hear you speak so highly of the FLEA 249, because that's what I'm leaning toward. My voice does better on more neutral sources as it really doesn't need enhancement. sean, if you do a direct comparison I would love to hear anything you could allow me to between the two FLEAs. You wouldn't happen to be near NY would you? jakeharris, no thank you, but I appreciate the offer. The U47 doesn't really work for my voice. It seems to compress the sweet part of my voice, killing the dynamics. It may be because I'm so loud, it may just be because my voice is such a high tenor voice. Either way, I sold my Peluso 2247SE to fund my Advanced Audio CM49 and it was worth it. It's just a better fit for my voice. The Flea 47 was one of the best and I imagine most versatile U47 style microphones I've had the pleasure to use. It did a really good job with my volume and tone. Still has that compressions thing on my top end though. I worked with a Wagner U47W in the past and it had a darker more vintage tone that really didn't work on my voice. While it's a brighter sounding M49 mic, here I am singing through the Advanced Audio CM49. It's an old school crooning style and not my typical big operatic style, but it will show you how I sound on an M49 style microphone.....which is really good.
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Post by aremos on Jul 29, 2017 7:19:56 GMT -6
Over a couple of years ago I tried both FleA's on vox (tenor & baritone) for a while & thought their 47 & 49 were very good mics that actually sounded similar but I wasn't overly impressed. I don't know of anything that sounds like (out there now) a 701 tube / k47 capsule combination (as well as VF14 / k47).
That said there are excellent new mics that do the job like any of the Josephson's (716 or 715). In the Neumann camp, for vox, I'd check out the 89, 170 or even the 47Fet. If you need a tube, the new Chandler sounds great.
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Post by sean on Jul 29, 2017 9:05:29 GMT -6
Not in New York (Nashville) but maybe I can convince him to do a vocal pass of a small section on each microphone and I'll send it to you.
I think, because I'm not a singer, it's really hard for me to audition microphones. To be honest I've never really "shoot out" microphones on any sessions...doesn't seem like I ever have time! Same with preamps...compressors...I just do something different until I settle on something I like! But it would be good to do a comparison to see if I should really justify it. I just recently got the Brauner Valvet as well...it was too good a deal to pass up and it definitely has a nice sparkle, which can also translate to being thin, but it's never strident.
One thing I hate about the Flea is the polar pattern switch. It's only cardioid, omni, and figure 8 but it has a 10 position switch like a M149 or something. It just looks and feels cheap. And the Brauner is mighty dinky looking. There's just something about being in front of a U47 or U87 that seems to do something to the confidence of a singer. Like "oh I've seen this microphone I'm in a pro studio"
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Post by yotonic on Jul 29, 2017 10:13:16 GMT -6
In my opinion Andreas Grosser makes the best 49 right now. I also think short of a vintage Neumann his Voxorama is the nicest 47 out there. I had one with an M7 cap I bought from Roundbadge it was awesome. I sold it to buy a long body Neumann before prices went retarded.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 29, 2017 19:24:55 GMT -6
sean, if it's possible that would be cool. Yeah, I have my U87ai. Luckily most people who come into my place are friends and they know if I tell them to use a mic it's because I know their voice well. Most of them are either Jazz, Broadway, or operatic singers. If I need to do a test I'll usually set up the mics close together on the very first take and then listen back choose what works and then do additional takes with that mic going forward. I'm a big believer that when you find the right mic, you don't have to do much to it. I try to use minimal EQ, etc. aremos, you make some good points about the tube/ capsule combo. Thanks for your input on the FLEA mics. As for the other mics, I've never tried any of the Josephson's. I also haven't tried the FET U47 or the U89 & 170. Admittedly, I have a thing for tube mics. The chandler looks awesome, but the U47 just doesn't do what I want for my voice. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to try any of them if I had the opportunity. yotonic, thanks. I don't see the 49 on their website, only the 47. Maybe I'll reach out for more details.
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Post by drbill on Jul 29, 2017 19:41:07 GMT -6
M49's are probably my favorite mic. A good one is chock full of magic fairy dust and boocoo inspiration. I have not heard any of the clones come remotely close to conjuring up the magic. I don't own any though. A good M49 is the only mic I'd be willing to spend "stupid vintage money" on though. At this point, I think all the good ones will never be sold. The M49's at Capitol are amazing. Just mind blowing. The pair at Conway are crazy insanely good at putting you into a time machine. A sense of realism I rarely experience from a mic.
Sigh......
Good luck. If you find one with the dust in it, let us know.....
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jul 29, 2017 20:33:49 GMT -6
A Great M49 is my be all end all holy grail mic, I have heard from people who I respect that the Flea Next 49 was a supriseing great 47 sounding mic for the price. As Bill said good ones are being held onto by the owners, there are a few ok to blah examples that seam to come up for sale from time to time though, I think Don Larking might have a couple of good ones now or in the future. Keep in mind that Besides 3 electronic revisions and were built with both M7 and later K47 capsules. There have been a number of DIY body runs and of course the machining of TLM49 bodies. I would also contact Shannon Rhodes and see what it would cost to have him build you a 49 clone. Sorry for introducing you to my Unicorn Vincent but your voice and talent deserve the very best!
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 29, 2017 20:46:02 GMT -6
ericn, you only poured a little gasoline onto a flame that was already there.
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Post by yotonic on Jul 29, 2017 21:39:41 GMT -6
Andreas is taking orders now for his 49 with a swappable head. Borris Karloff at Sound Device in Prague is tight with him. He can get you more info. I think the purple site was talking about it. m.facebook.com/soundevicestudio/Voxorama U49: The mic comes with a standard K137 capsule, and is fitted with two of Andreas famous VF14 style "electronic tubes". It's fixed cardoid pattern can be changed (on the power supply) and is continuously variable. Capsules may be swapped out for his CK12s or K47s capsules, which makes this mic a vintage style allrounder. price is 7860,-€ excl. VAT (9350,-€ incl. VAT)
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Post by 79sg on Jul 30, 2017 10:20:24 GMT -6
Been searching for a great M49 for a long time, maybe some day, but probably not at this point. I discussed attempting to convert my TLM49 into an M49 clone a while back with Shannon. We never got far enough in our discussion and I most likely was sidetracked by something else and dropped the ball.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 30, 2017 11:05:17 GMT -6
Shannon was nice enough to send me his info when I was looking for U67 (before I converted my U87ai with the MK kit). I think before I spend 4K on a FLEA 249, which is my trajectory right now, I'll reach out to him and see what his thoughts are. I have a little bit before I'll have the money to make the purchase, so I may as well weigh my options.
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Post by adamjbrass on Jul 31, 2017 9:11:40 GMT -6
Been looking myself, I am planning to buy a M49 kit and customize my own, though I saw Ben at Beezneez making a M-49 body recently, so I dunno. But I really want a M-49 style mic in my collection. May have to trade someone...
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Post by jakeharris on Jul 31, 2017 10:00:23 GMT -6
Shannon was nice enough to send me his info when I was looking for U67 (before I converted my U87ai with the MK kit). I think before I spend 4K on a FLEA 249, which is my trajectory right now, I'll reach out to him and see what his thoughts are. I have a little bit before I'll have the money to make the purchase, so I may as well weigh my options. Is it just the sound you're after, or do you also want the looks?
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 31, 2017 11:02:45 GMT -6
jakeharris, the sound. It doesn't have to look exactly like an M49, but I know enough to know that the grill is part of the sound.
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Post by Ward on Jul 31, 2017 17:24:36 GMT -6
jakeharris, the sound. It doesn't have to look exactly like an M49, but I know enough to know that the grill is part of the sound. To that end... when is someone going to come up with a kit that can convert an M149 into a viable M49? Like has been done with the U87/TLM67 to U67 kit?
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 31, 2017 18:34:23 GMT -6
jakeharris , the sound. It doesn't have to look exactly like an M49, but I know enough to know that the grill is part of the sound. To that end... when is someone going to come up with a kit that can convert an M149 into a viable M49? Like has been done with the U87/TLM67 to U67 kit? Holy Sh#t! If that were available it would be my next purchase. ioaudio?
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 31, 2017 20:03:35 GMT -6
I'm trying very hard to find somewhere I can demo a Flea 49. I also spoke with Shannon. What a cool and knowledgeable guy. What intrigued me about him was he took time to watch some of my YouTube videos to hear my voice before we even spoke, and when we spoke he told me not to think about it as making an M49, but starting with the M49 sound as a base, making a mic that would be perfect for my voice whether it sounded exactly like an M49 or not. Then we spoke about how he actually built the Korby 49 that I tried initially. I have some options here.
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Post by reddirt on Jul 31, 2017 20:09:33 GMT -6
If I recall correctly, Oliver Archutt before he passed converted one or two TM 149s to 49s with very happy customers so it can be done. Cheers, Ross
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jul 31, 2017 20:55:34 GMT -6
I'm trying very hard to find somewhere I can demo a Flea 49. I also spoke with Shannon. What a cool and knowledgeable guy. What intrigued me about him was he took time to watch some of my YouTube videos to hear my voice before we even spoke, and when we spoke he told me not to think about it as making an M49, but starting with the M49 sound as a base, making a mic that would be perfect for my voice whether it sounded exactly like an M49 or not. Then we spoke about how he actually built the Korby 49 that I tried initially. I have some options here. This why, especially if you are singer recording yourself and can afford it working with Shannon is a no brainer. Think of the relationship you have had with Dave at AA only at the next level. Your not buying a generic mic, your having a mic built and tuned for you by one of the most experienced and talented mic guys I have met! His post come across as some kewl kid but when it comes to mics and motor cross he is the man and where I would go!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 1, 2017 7:07:27 GMT -6
My original Blackspade UM-17 was a dead ringer for an M49. It had the most detailed midrange I've ever heard, and it came through in mixes beautifully without EQ. The thing was, it was a little light for my taste in the low end. Eventually I added a Thiersch Blueline capsule, then changed to a Redline. By then it was closer to a U47, but still a little thin. Then I did a comparison at The Barbershop Studios thanks to head engineer Jeremy Gillespie, and when I compared the M49 to the U67 and U47, the 49 was the same kind of thin. I would strongly recommend you get to try one before buying. If it's a good fit, it'll be amazing, but if not, you won't have buyer's remorse. It wasn't a scientific test, but just in case you want to listen for yourself, here ya go.. realgearonline.com/thread/5685/high-end-mic-shootout-preview?page=4
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