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Post by ChaseUTB on Aug 1, 2017 20:35:56 GMT -6
deckeratorI know you said you don't use the latest and greatest plugins and you stick with what works, however is there any new plugs you do really like and use?
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Post by deckerator on Aug 5, 2017 9:45:53 GMT -6
yes, i recently just started using jst (joey sturgis tones) plugins...i really like the gain plugin on vox's, and the jst clip on gtrs and drums.......
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Post by deckerator on Aug 5, 2017 9:49:12 GMT -6
A lot of interesting stuff here. Most (but not all) doesn't seem directly applicable to me with my primarily hardware based, OTB process, but I do have one question of a more general "philosophy of mixing" nature. I'm getting the idea that the majority of your work comes in tracked by other people. Do you ever do projects where you do the tracking as well? If so, does that change the way you approach the mixing stage? used to but focussed just on mixing starting bout 2000-2001...i always wanted to be the quarterback on the football team.......
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 5, 2017 17:09:03 GMT -6
A lot of interesting stuff here. Most (but not all) doesn't seem directly applicable to me with my primarily hardware based, OTB process, but I do have one question of a more general "philosophy of mixing" nature. I'm getting the idea that the majority of your work comes in tracked by other people. Do you ever do projects where you do the tracking as well? If so, does that change the way you approach the mixing stage? used to but focussed just on mixing starting bout 2000-2001...i always wanted to be the quarterback on the football team....... That's one way to look at it I guess - so you want to be the producer? I just don't understand why anyone would not want top follow a project all the way through. And the idea of having to deal with somebody else's messes doeasn't much appeal to me. Probably a generational thing.
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Post by jeromemason on Aug 6, 2017 1:21:25 GMT -6
used to but focussed just on mixing starting bout 2000-2001...i always wanted to be the quarterback on the football team....... That's one way to look at it I guess - so you want to be the producer? I just don't understand why anyone would not want top follow a project all the way through. And the idea of having to deal with somebody else's messes doeasn't much appeal to me. Probably a generational thing. The tracks Billy's mixing are not messes, they're some of the best sounding recordings you'll ever hear. Billy take's an uncut diamond and polishes it to a #1 on the chart. And producing, well when you're mixing full time you're producing too. You're not just throwing all the ingredients of the cake into a bowl and baking it, you're making some of the most critical "producing" decisions that will determine if that person is successful or not. I've sat and learned/watched Billy mix dozens up dozens of tracks and what he does is nothing short of amazing. He's every bit of a producer as anyone else wearing it on their sleeve. It takes more guts and confidence to say "I'm a mixing engineer" instead of "well I'm a mixing engineer, producer, editor, vocal tuner, file bouncer, you name it." What kind of gets me is that everyone for some reason believes that "Producer" is the top of the chain, well not really..... That's just a job, you're just as every bit in the food chain as the guy editing or tuning the vocals, you just happen to give your idea of how a song should go, to make it the best it can be. Well, isn't that everyone's job that is in that chain? Everyone plays a vital role in doing their part to make sure the artist/band can be the best they can be. I just never have understood why everyone hear's "Producer" and thinks that person is more valuable than anyone else, or has achieved more than anyone else.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 7, 2017 15:00:34 GMT -6
That's one way to look at it I guess - so you want to be the producer? I just don't understand why anyone would not want top follow a project all the way through. And the idea of having to deal with somebody else's messes doeasn't much appeal to me. Probably a generational thing. The tracks Billy's mixing are not messes, they're some of the best sounding recordings you'll ever hear. Billy take's an uncut diamond and polishes it to a #1 on the chart. And producing, well when you're mixing full time you're producing too. You're not just throwing all the ingredients of the cake into a bowl and baking it, you're making some of the most critical "producing" decisions that will determine if that person is successful or not. I've sat and learned/watched Billy mix dozens up dozens of tracks and what he does is nothing short of amazing. He's every bit of a producer as anyone else wearing it on their sleeve. It takes more guts and confidence to say "I'm a mixing engineer" instead of "well I'm a mixing engineer, producer, editor, vocal tuner, file bouncer, you name it." What kind of gets me is that everyone for some reason believes that "Producer" is the top of the chain, well not really..... That's just a job, you're just as every bit in the food chain as the guy editing or tuning the vocals, you just happen to give your idea of how a song should go, to make it the best it can be. Well, isn't that everyone's job that is in that chain? Everyone plays a vital role in doing their part to make sure the artist/band can be the best they can be. I just never have understood why everyone hear's "Producer" and thinks that person is more valuable than anyone else, or has achieved more than anyone else. I wasn't speaking of Billy's own work, nor was I using the word "you" in the singular sense ("you" is both singular and plural) - I was commenting on the trend (which I find somewhat alarming) to split the engineering job into separate "tracking" and "mixing" jobs to be handed out to different people. This bothers me for both musical and philosophical grounds (among other, related, issues), but this might not be the right place to discuss it. Edit: My comments (which were just a tad tongue in cheek in case you didn't pick up on that) were inspired to a degree by Billy's saying that he prefers to be the "quarterback", etc, etc. Well, to me, if the tracking enghineer is any good, and what he sends out (or doesn't, depending) isn't a "mess" of alternative tracks, versions, and indecision, the tracking engineer is, in fact the "quarterback" because what he does determines the direction and character of the entire mix. The mix engineer is the wide receiver, who catches the ball and takes it into the end zone. As William Wittman has said on numerous occasions, when he tracks he's doing everything he possibly can to set the direction, feel, etc. of the recording and making a real effort by his specific decisions to tie the hands of whoever might be entrusted with his work down the line. Edit 2: I do think it's a bit of a generational thing. When I was coming up nobody ever heard of sending a mix out to somebody else, or at least it was extremely rare.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 7, 2017 21:47:24 GMT -6
used to but focussed just on mixing starting bout 2000-2001...i always wanted to be the quarterback on the football team....... That's one way to look at it I guess - so you want to be the producer? I just don't understand why anyone would not want top follow a project all the way through. And the idea of having to deal with somebody else's messes doeasn't much appeal to me. Probably a generational thing. Maybe it's because you might not be king shit of everything? Just a thought.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 7, 2017 21:48:59 GMT -6
That's one way to look at it I guess - so you want to be the producer? I just don't understand why anyone would not want top follow a project all the way through. And the idea of having to deal with somebody else's messes doeasn't much appeal to me. Probably a generational thing. The tracks Billy's mixing are not messes, they're some of the best sounding recordings you'll ever hear. Billy take's an uncut diamond and polishes it to a #1 on the chart. And producing, well when you're mixing full time you're producing too. You're not just throwing all the ingredients of the cake into a bowl and baking it, you're making some of the most critical "producing" decisions that will determine if that person is successful or not. I've sat and learned/watched Billy mix dozens up dozens of tracks and what he does is nothing short of amazing. He's every bit of a producer as anyone else wearing it on their sleeve. It takes more guts and confidence to say "I'm a mixing engineer" instead of "well I'm a mixing engineer, producer, editor, vocal tuner, file bouncer, you name it." What kind of gets me is that everyone for some reason believes that "Producer" is the top of the chain, well not really..... That's just a job, you're just as every bit in the food chain as the guy editing or tuning the vocals, you just happen to give your idea of how a song should go, to make it the best it can be. Well, isn't that everyone's job that is in that chain? Everyone plays a vital role in doing their part to make sure the artist/band can be the best they can be. I just never have understood why everyone hear's "Producer" and thinks that person is more valuable than anyone else, or has achieved more than anyone else. Producer is Italian for "Makes most money for least amount of work."
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 7, 2017 21:55:39 GMT -6
The tracks Billy's mixing are not messes, they're some of the best sounding recordings you'll ever hear. Billy take's an uncut diamond and polishes it to a #1 on the chart. And producing, well when you're mixing full time you're producing too. You're not just throwing all the ingredients of the cake into a bowl and baking it, you're making some of the most critical "producing" decisions that will determine if that person is successful or not. I've sat and learned/watched Billy mix dozens up dozens of tracks and what he does is nothing short of amazing. He's every bit of a producer as anyone else wearing it on their sleeve. It takes more guts and confidence to say "I'm a mixing engineer" instead of "well I'm a mixing engineer, producer, editor, vocal tuner, file bouncer, you name it." What kind of gets me is that everyone for some reason believes that "Producer" is the top of the chain, well not really..... That's just a job, you're just as every bit in the food chain as the guy editing or tuning the vocals, you just happen to give your idea of how a song should go, to make it the best it can be. Well, isn't that everyone's job that is in that chain? Everyone plays a vital role in doing their part to make sure the artist/band can be the best they can be. I just never have understood why everyone hear's "Producer" and thinks that person is more valuable than anyone else, or has achieved more than anyone else. I wasn't speaking of Billy's own work, nor was I using the word "you" in the singular sense ("you" is both singular and plural) - I was commenting on the trend (which I find somewhat alarming) to split the engineering job into separate "tracking" and "mixing" jobs to be handed out to different people. This bothers me for both musical and philosophical grounds (among other, related, issues), but this might not be the right place to discuss it. Edit: My comments (which were just a tad tongue in cheek in case you didn't pick up on that) were inspired to a degree by Billy's saying that he prefers to be the "quarterback", etc, etc. Well, to me, if the tracking enghineer is any good, and what he sends out (or doesn't, depending) isn't a "mess" of alternative tracks, versions, and indecision, the tracking engineer is, in fact the "quarterback" because what he does determines the direction and character of the entire mix. The mix engineer is the wide receiver, who catches the ball and takes it into the end zone. As William Wittman has said on numerous occasions, when he tracks he's doing everything he possibly can to set the direction, feel, etc. of the recording and making a real effort by his specific decisions to tie the hands of whoever might be entrusted with his work down the line. Edit 2: I do think it's a bit of a generational thing. When I was coming up nobody ever heard of sending a mix out to somebody else, or at least it was extremely rare. Well, when you were coming up (no offense intended) bands would take a year to finish a record...that's a lot of time to experiment with a 24 channel mix. Also, it's kind of like artists being songwriters. Some are. Some were born to do it and no one else should do it for them. Some have no business doing it and it's an egotistical mess when they pull rank and do it. Same could be said for "producers." Tom Dowd should have mixed his own recordings. Limp Biscuit shouldn't have.
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Post by swurveman on Aug 8, 2017 17:55:57 GMT -6
That's one way to look at it I guess - so you want to be the producer? I just don't understand why anyone would not want top follow a project all the way through. And the idea of having to deal with somebody else's messes doeasn't much appeal to me. Probably a generational thing. And producing, well when you're mixing full time you're producing too. You're not just throwing all the ingredients of the cake into a bowl and baking it, you're making some of the most critical "producing" decisions that will determine if that person is successful or not. What kind of gets me is that everyone for some reason believes that "Producer" is the top of the chain, well not really..... That's just a job, you're just as every bit in the food chain as the guy editing or tuning the vocals, you just happen to give your idea of how a song should go, to make it the best it can be. Well, isn't that everyone's job that is in that chain? Everyone plays a vital role in doing their part to make sure the artist/band can be the best they can be. I just never have understood why everyone hear's "Producer" and thinks that person is more valuable than anyone else, or has achieved more than anyone else. I always wonder about the role of the Producer, particularly in great songs. Take "Jump Into The Fire". Great bass riff and drum/guitar groove.... and then this perfect-for the song- delay that works superbly with the vocal melody giving the song a uniqueness that is still highly valued to this day. This is Golden Age stuff. My guesss is that it was a collaborative effort that came out of a period where lots of people were invested in the song. I don't know the background of who was responsible for what. If anybody does, that would be cool.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 8, 2017 19:35:22 GMT -6
And producing, well when you're mixing full time you're producing too. You're not just throwing all the ingredients of the cake into a bowl and baking it, you're making some of the most critical "producing" decisions that will determine if that person is successful or not. What kind of gets me is that everyone for some reason believes that "Producer" is the top of the chain, well not really..... That's just a job, you're just as every bit in the food chain as the guy editing or tuning the vocals, you just happen to give your idea of how a song should go, to make it the best it can be. Well, isn't that everyone's job that is in that chain? Everyone plays a vital role in doing their part to make sure the artist/band can be the best they can be. I just never have understood why everyone hear's "Producer" and thinks that person is more valuable than anyone else, or has achieved more than anyone else. I always wonder about the role of the Producer, particularly in great songs. Take "Jump Into The Fire". Great bass riff and drum/guitar groove.... and then this perfect-for the song- delay that works superbly with the vocal melody giving the song a uniqueness that is still highly valued to this day. This is Golden Age stuff. My guesss is that it was a collaborative effort that came out of a period where lots of people were invested in the song. I don't know the background of who was responsible for what. If anybody does, that would be cool. These days there are MORE people likely to be "invested" in the song. Back then it was like a ship and the producer was the captain. He might not have his hands on the wheel all the time, but he has the vision for the journey, sets the course, and gets the best performance out of the "crew". Now it seems like there are too many chiefs and not enough indians. And the producer on that particular album was the great Richard Perry.
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Post by deckerator on Aug 23, 2017 21:58:27 GMT -6
used to but focussed just on mixing starting bout 2000-2001...i always wanted to be the quarterback on the football team....... That's one way to look at it I guess - so you want to be the producer? I just don't understand why anyone would not want top follow a project all the way through. And the idea of having to deal with somebody else's messes doeasn't much appeal to me. Probably a generational thing. Gentlemen I'll jump in here allow me π.....do i wanna be a producer? ?? Hmmmmm? ? Yes I have been the producer before...... twice coproducing with Scott Hendricks ... once for Tony Brown back during the mca days... once by myself for David Kersh on curb ... once by myself for Kristy Lee Cook on Broken Bow, and twice now for Rodney Atkins over at curb ...each time I got a producer advance per song from the label, i then went on to mix each and every one... I was involved from the start tracking through overdubs to mixing ..... because of the way I like to mix , i've always felt my best work comes from when I've never heard the song and just come in cold and put my stamp on it ... as of next week I'm gonna have my 13th number one with Dustin Lynch small-town boy ... none of the ones I coproduced or had anything to do with tracking wise have ever made it half that way.....now I'll honestly say, I just set myself up for a rhetorical question... what I'm trying to say is I think I do my best work when I don't even have any knowledge of the song and just come in cold and put a fresh take on it ..... to be honest I'm most proud of the stuff that I just mix as far as sonics go... for me I get too close and find myself going back and back and back and back to try to make it better. Over the years I found I always do my best work when I do shoot from the hip and then just let it go .... as far as being the quarterback on the football team .... I don't mean to be rude, but I'm thinking the Chris lord alge's of the world who just mix, tend to get more pussy than any tracking engineer I've ever met π³πππππ.... That was a figure of speech in case nobody got the joke ππππππ Mix on fellas, you can be good at a bunch of things, or be great at oneππ
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 23, 2017 23:13:32 GMT -6
That's one way to look at it I guess - so you want to be the producer? I just don't understand why anyone would not want top follow a project all the way through. And the idea of having to deal with somebody else's messes doeasn't much appeal to me. Probably a generational thing. Gentlemen I'll jump in here allow me π.....do i wanna be a producer? ?? Hmmmmm? ? Yes I have been the producer before...... twice coproducing with Scott Hendricks ... once for Tony Brown back during the mca days... once by myself for David Kersh on curb ... once by myself for Kristy Lee Cook on Broken Bow, and twice now for Rodney Atkins over at curb ...each time I got a producer advance per song from the label, i then went on to mix each and every one... I was involved from the start tracking through overdubs to mixing ..... because of the way I like to mix , i've always felt my best work comes from when I've never heard the song and just come in cold and put my stamp on it ... as of next week I'm gonna have my 13th number one with Dustin Lynch small-town boy ... none of the ones I coproduced or had anything to do with tracking wise have ever made it half that way.....now I'll honestly say, I just set myself up for a rhetorical question... what I'm trying to say is I think I do my best work when I don't even have any knowledge of the song and just come in cold and put a fresh take on it ..... to be honest I'm most proud of the stuff that I just mix as far as sonics go... for me I get too close and find myself going back and back and back and back to try to make it better. Over the years I found I always do my best work when I do shoot from the hip and then just let it go .... as far as being the quarterback on the football team .... I don't mean to be rude, but I'm thinking the Chris lord alge's of the world who just mix, tend to get more pussy than any tracking engineer I've ever met π³πππππ.... That was a figure of speech in case nobody got the joke ππππππ Mix on fellas, you can be good at a bunch of things, or be great at oneππ Heh....... Looking back, I should have added that a lot of it also probably has to do with the stuff you've got coming in. But it was late....
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Post by deckerator on Aug 25, 2017 18:25:05 GMT -6
Gentlemen I'll jump in here allow me π.....do i wanna be a producer? ?? Hmmmmm? ? Yes I have been the producer before...... twice coproducing with Scott Hendricks ... once for Tony Brown back during the mca days... once by myself for David Kersh on curb ... once by myself for Kristy Lee Cook on Broken Bow, and twice now for Rodney Atkins over at curb ...each time I got a producer advance per song from the label, i then went on to mix each and every one... I was involved from the start tracking through overdubs to mixing ..... because of the way I like to mix , i've always felt my best work comes from when I've never heard the song and just come in cold and put my stamp on it ... as of next week I'm gonna have my 13th number one with Dustin Lynch small-town boy ... none of the ones I coproduced or had anything to do with tracking wise have ever made it half that way.....now I'll honestly say, I just set myself up for a rhetorical question... what I'm trying to say is I think I do my best work when I don't even have any knowledge of the song and just come in cold and put a fresh take on it ..... to be honest I'm most proud of the stuff that I just mix as far as sonics go... for me I get too close and find myself going back and back and back and back to try to make it better. Over the years I found I always do my best work when I do shoot from the hip and then just let it go .... as far as being the quarterback on the football team .... I don't mean to be rude, but I'm thinking the Chris lord alge's of the world who just mix, tend to get more pussy than any tracking engineer I've ever met π³πππππ.... That was a figure of speech in case nobody got the joke ππππππ Mix on fellas, you can be good at a bunch of things, or be great at oneππ Heh....... Looking back, I should have added that a lot of it also probably has to do with the stuff you've got coming in. But it was late.... All good palππ
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 25, 2017 19:57:42 GMT -6
Heh....... Looking back, I should have added that a lot of it also probably has to do with the stuff you've got coming in. But it was late.... All good palππ All good!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 25, 2017 20:22:35 GMT -6
Hi Billy, I completely respect what it takes to do what you do, but it also seems a bit like being hooked on one night stands. If being the mix engineer is truly your specialty though, well more power to you.
With all your skill and reputation, I would think you would want to see just how far you can take it. Imagine how wonderful it was to be George Martin, helming that amazing crew. Or being Glyn Johns and getting the Rolling Stones, the Who or Led Zeppelin captured perfectly for all time? They didn't just make records, they made history.
Oh, and I don't think they suffered for some very personal attention either ;-)
Just trying to be inspiring.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 25, 2017 21:28:29 GMT -6
Having traded the hats from mix specialist, to tracking engineer but at a different place in the market from where Billy sits here is my perspective while my mix clients came to me to save projects where they were in over their heads , & Billy gets projects involving engineers who pretty much could do it as well there is a commonality, expediency both in time and economics of employing somebody who you know will deliver and not kill the budget. We have to remember one mans art is another's paycheck! As I track more and more for music that isn't intended for direct consumption I find I'm happy I'm not mixing for the client!
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