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Post by mrholmes on Jun 24, 2017 14:03:24 GMT -6
Dear RGOs.
Female singer with some strong SS in the 4.5 k region.
Did try to move the mic but mhhhh its already 16" away.
I ask because I don't want to use a deesser this time.
Any hint is welcome...
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Post by duke on Jun 24, 2017 14:58:58 GMT -6
Edited: I misunderstood the question and my response was of no value. |
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Post by jazznoise on Jun 24, 2017 15:08:36 GMT -6
The issue could still be positioning. Pointing down and having the singer face straight ahead, takes you off axis from plosives and bright sibilances. Trying different mics can help, something a little less mid forward? At that distance you could even try an SDC or a dynamic like an M201. A lot of singers emulate specific vocal sounds, and they can be very strident because they emulate the presence peak they here on pop recordings.
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Post by M57 on Jun 24, 2017 15:11:21 GMT -6
Where are you aiming the mic? Is the singer aware of the problem? Does she, or could she learn some mic techniques that mitigate the issue? ..such as singing a bit more "across" the mic, especially when she sings S's? Are F's a problem too?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 15:19:43 GMT -6
Which microphone are you using?
You can use a LDC condenser paired with a ribbon or high quality dynamic (md441)and mix to taste. you can sidechain sss sound from one to another mic
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 24, 2017 17:21:01 GMT -6
If anybody figures it out. Let me know.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 24, 2017 19:13:22 GMT -6
Wear a Phil Spector wig and wave about a .38
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 24, 2017 19:37:01 GMT -6
The issue could still be positioning. Pointing down and having the singer face straight ahead, takes you off axis from plosives and bright sibilances. Trying different mics can help, something a little less mid forward? At that distance you could even try an SDC or a dynamic like an M201. A lot of singers emulate specific vocal sounds, and they can be very strident because they emulate the presence peak they here on pop recordings. If you can discuss it with the singer and if it doesn't make her too self concious, get her to try a little mic technique, turning away from the mic to some degree when hitting those sibalent parts. I have an ongoing sib problem and I find that this, combined with placing the mic with the diaphragm at around eye level but angled down can help a lot. On one song I switched from my usual Pearlman TM-1 LDC to a Beyer M88, but usually not. |
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 24, 2017 20:25:13 GMT -6
The issue could still be positioning. Pointing down and having the singer face straight ahead, takes you off axis from plosives and bright sibilances. Trying different mics can help, something a little less mid forward? At that distance you could even try an SDC or a dynamic like an M201. A lot of singers emulate specific vocal sounds, and they can be very strident because they emulate the presence peak they here on pop recordings. I am stupid yeah I totaly forgot to try off axis something I do with acoustic guitars often. I will let you know what worked best... |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,953 
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Post by ericn on Jun 24, 2017 20:29:56 GMT -6
It's all about choosing the right mic for the particular voice, even then you might need a good desser.
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Post by ragan on Jun 24, 2017 21:01:05 GMT -6
You don't need to make the singer try and 'aim' off axis either. Rotate the mic a little in the clip/mount. Works wonders.
And like other people have mentioned, place the mic a little high and angle downwards a little.
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Post by reddirt on Jun 24, 2017 23:22:57 GMT -6
As others have alluded to ; get the singer to sing past the mic, by angling it i.e. not directly into the capsule.
Years ago we used a rubber band to hold a pencil vertically, flat against the wind screen in the middle of the capsule; can't actually remember if it worked but the idea was to disturb the air movement and was hot property at one time - give it a go.
Another is, if a gap in the front teeth is accentuating it then small bit of discreetly placed chewing gum to plug the gap, could work.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by M57 on Jun 25, 2017 4:50:55 GMT -6
Another is, if a gap in the front teeth is accentuating it then small bit of discreetly placed chewing gum to plug the gap, could work. ..and if they're singing flat, have them stand on their tippy toes. Just kidding. But seriously - I never thought of that. Fixing the problem by physically altering the instrument is a real interesting and valid concept for vocals. I'll be tempted to try it on my own vocal at some point. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 25, 2017 6:19:14 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 25, 2017 8:35:15 GMT -6
Chocolate rain baby
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Post by svart on Jun 25, 2017 8:52:44 GMT -6
On the headphone mix going back to the singer, boost the eq at the places where you get siblance. See if they naturally back off a little due to hearing it so much.
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Post by joseph on Jun 25, 2017 9:39:32 GMT -6
RE20 worth a try.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 25, 2017 9:43:10 GMT -6
On side note, we had two female singers (sisters) in about six weeks ago for a five song demo session. Their mic technique required no de-essing and very little compression or EQ. (none was used while tracking) And they didn't hold back. I used a Bock 251 and a DIY C12 (Matador/Chunger) and no sibilance issues with either. Basically you could have stuck almost any mic in front of them and ended up with something decent. 30 plus years of professional experience recording and touring was obvious and they were a breeze to record after a couple of somewhat difficult vocal tracking sessions with some less experienced clients. Watching them work the mics along with their dynamic control was a joy not to mention the time it saves in post. I'm giving Wiz three guesses who these sisters are but I can't confirm it or I'll have to shoot him!  |
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 25, 2017 10:50:45 GMT -6
I've found those problems are caused by the mic capsule, the electronics in the body or the mic preamp, or a combination of all 3.
Fixed it here by selecting capsules without any lifts in the 4~8k hz zone. Any strident resistors, transistors, jfets or capacitors are removed from the mic body electronics.
I avoid strident, THD causing mic preamps like Neve designs, that will rip you a new one. A very clear and clean mic pre will not make sibilance ugly.
If it sounds like someone singing next to you naturally, then you have it licked.
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Post by sozocaps on Jun 25, 2017 11:30:15 GMT -6
My new coupling capacitors in your mic from what I'm hearing here so far....
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 25, 2017 11:45:37 GMT -6
My new coupling capacitors in your mic from what I'm hearing here so far.... Where they at??? sozocaps |
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Post by joseph on Jun 25, 2017 12:11:14 GMT -6
I imagine the new Manley Reference Silver would be an ideal mic for this sort of thing, if the Josephson C715 is any indication.
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Post by sozocaps on Jun 25, 2017 12:19:28 GMT -6
They will be at NAMM in your hands in a few weeks LOL
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 25, 2017 13:51:34 GMT -6
As others have alluded to ; get the singer to sing past the mic, by angling it i.e. not directly into the capsule. Years ago we used a rubber band to hold a pencil vertically, flat against the wind screen in the middle of the capsule; can't actually remember if it worked but the idea was to disturb the air movement and was hot property at one time - give it a go. Another is, if a gap in the front teeth is accentuating it then small bit of discreetly placed chewing gum to plug the gap, could work. Cheers, Ross The actual purpose of that bit of lore is to avoiid "popping" the ribbon on something like a 77 or 44. People who do in with condensers don't really understand what it's about. On the ribbon mic, the pencil lies directly in front of and parallel to the ribbon, so that it splits the pressure burst and diverts it to the sides of the ribbon. Since the diaphragm in a condenser isn't a thin, straight ribbon and is considerably wider than the pencil, it wouldn't be particularly effective.... |
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Post by wiz on Jun 25, 2017 16:23:25 GMT -6
On side note, we had two female singers (sisters) in about six weeks ago for a five song demo session. Their mic technique required no de-essing and very little compression or EQ. (none was used while tracking) And they didn't hold back. I used a Bock 251 and a DIY C12 (Matador/Chunger) and no sibilance issues with either. Basically you could have stuck almost any mic in front of them and ended up with something decent. 30 plus years of professional experience recording and touring was obvious and they were a breeze to record after a couple of somewhat difficult vocal tracking sessions with some less experienced clients. Watching them work the mics along with their dynamic control was a joy not to mention the time it saves in post. I'm giving Wiz three guesses who these sisters are but I can't confirm it or I'll have to shoot him! I know EXACTLY who you are talking about!!! Man, I would love to hear them up close and personal in the studio like that... I was watching them last Sat Night on that TV show that bears a portion of my nickname.... 8).... they were brilliant as usual.... cheers Wiz |
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