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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 14, 2017 19:42:04 GMT -6
Had to send my 0-13's back today, I'll miss them. I can't really afford to buy one right now. It's ironic though, I've probably sold more mics for Soyuz than anyone. They're good guys at Soyuz and at Alto Music though, and it was great to have them for a while.
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Post by The Rising Tide on Nov 7, 2017 19:05:19 GMT -6
I was lucky enough to spend a couple weeks comparing the SU-013 to the SU-011 on acoustic guitar. I had a pair of the 011s and just a single 013. I’ve spent a couple weeks working with my tracks from those sessions, and for me it’s a really tough choice between the two! They definitely sound different, but either can sound excellent. As a disclaimer, these are just my opinions based on my guitars, and I have no problem if someone else had a different experience they would like to share.
Some general observations:
I don’t find either mic bright. I tend to prefer the SU-013 on the strumming parts, and the 011 for finger-style playing.
SU-011 – Amazing finger-style tones (at least for my style of playing). Articulate, musical, and a nice presence for finger-style. I find it more natural sounding, and a bit more open/clear sounding. A bit less fullness overall – especially on the low end, but that’s not always a bad thing.
SU-013 – Really nice for strumming parts. Huge and full sound – it has a presence to it that really comes out switching between the two mics. I wouldn’t say it’s a bright presence, more like a fullness overall. I find it pretty thick and slightly more coloured sounding (slightly darker perhaps?). In a lot of cases, I think this mic complements the mid-range of my guitar better, and gives me more polished sounding tracks for some reason – especially when strumming more aggressively. For the price, this mic is really nice.
The only bad things about this comparison is my decision is really hard! I was planning on buying a pair, but I would be happy with one of each or just a single. I’m not sure how much I want to get into stereo micing at this point, and realistically I might not even need the pair. I like to keep things simple if possible.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 7, 2017 22:20:22 GMT -6
I’ve used both and like them both. If I had to choose one, I’d take the 0-13. The 0-11 is a little rounder, and the charm is seductive, but the 0-13 was more versatile and lively I felt. All the Soyuz mics have incredible gain and very low noise. You can’t go wrong either way.
Forgot to say welcome to the forum The Rising Tide.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 8, 2017 9:30:35 GMT -6
Not sure I’d want an sdc darker than the 13
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 16, 2018 15:36:21 GMT -6
Congratulations Hadaja! If memory serves, the Soyuz 0-13 has considerably more output than the KM84,yet remains clear. That gave me a vibrant very alive sound that I loved. No knock against the KM84, which I use extensively, but I preferred the 0-13 when I had them both here.
I would probably never use the KM84 or the 0-13 as a vocal mic unless I was in a jam and my other mics weren't working, but that's just me. They can work just fine as vocal mics, especially with the right pop screen and a little distance to help avoid plosives.
The Soyuz mics have a little color, and that's part of the attraction. It's really up to the user to decide if it's the right color for their tracks. If I was pressed to describe, I'd say like a Neumann, but smoother and a bit fatter in a good way.
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Post by brenta on May 26, 2019 13:15:23 GMT -6
Has anyone used the Soyuz 011 on drum overheads? How do they compare the km84 there?
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Post by johneppstein on May 26, 2019 20:08:31 GMT -6
Wonder how these compare to the venerable KM84? Here's a lovely video from bluegrassdan (That's not bluegrass, Dan...) comparing the 84 with the SU-011 On axis, sounds lovely (for an internet clip.)
Off Axis?
Where? I see no off axis test, and that's where the KM84 STOMPS all others,
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Post by johneppstein on May 26, 2019 20:13:39 GMT -6
I was lucky enough to spend a couple weeks comparing the SU-013 to the SU-011 on acoustic guitar. I had a pair of the 011s and just a single 013. I’ve spent a couple weeks working with my tracks from those sessions, and for me it’s a really tough choice between the two! They definitely sound different, but either can sound excellent. As a disclaimer, these are just my opinions based on my guitars, and I have no problem if someone else had a different experience they would like to share. Some general observations: I don’t find either mic bright. I tend to prefer the SU-013 on the strumming parts, and the 011 for finger-style playing. SU-011 – Amazing finger-style tones (at least for my style of playing). Articulate, musical, and a nice presence for finger-style. I find it more natural sounding, and a bit more open/clear sounding. A bit less fullness overall – especially on the low end, but that’s not always a bad thing. SU-013 – Really nice for strumming parts. Huge and full sound – it has a presence to it that really comes out switching between the two mics. I wouldn’t say it’s a bright presence, more like a fullness overall. I find it pretty thick and slightly more coloured sounding (slightly darker perhaps?). In a lot of cases, I think this mic complements the mid-range of my guitar better, and gives me more polished sounding tracks for some reason – especially when strumming more aggressively. For the price, this mic is really nice. The only bad things about this comparison is my decision is really hard! I was planning on buying a pair, but I would be happy with one of each or just a single. I’m not sure how much I want to get into stereo micing at this point, and realistically I might not even need the pair. I like to keep things simple if possible. So do they actually sound like the guitar?
In the room?
Without anything else in the way?
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Post by ragan on May 26, 2019 21:58:20 GMT -6
Unpopular opinion: I think the KM84 off-axis thing is blown out of proportion and approaching canonical internet gear myth status a la SM7b The Giant Killer.
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Post by guitfiddler on May 27, 2019 7:49:10 GMT -6
Has anyone used the Soyuz 011 on drum overheads? How do they compare the km84 there? This ☝🏻
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 27, 2019 8:12:47 GMT -6
It's been a long time since I had the Soyuz 0-11 and the 0-13 here for a couple of weeks. Having used the KM84, I noticed the point and play aspect many times. It wasn't extra sensitive to placement, it sounded great wherever it was.
I don't recall any discernible difference in that regard when I used the 0-11 and 0-13, but I wasn't comparing off axis quality, just recording acoustic guitar, so I don't really know.
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Post by drsax on May 27, 2019 18:45:02 GMT -6
I can’t speak for the su-011, but my su013’s are not picky about placement. Just throw them up and record and they sound great. I rarely need to mess with placement much
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Post by drbill on May 27, 2019 18:54:32 GMT -6
Unpopular opinion: I think the KM84 off-axis thing is blown out of proportion and approaching canonical internet gear myth status a la SM7b The Giant Killer. Fair enough. I can see how you might feel that way. Have you owned KM84's though and recorded with them in a room with multiple musicians at the same time. i.e. tracking a band? For me, that's were the magic lies. And yeah, it's ALL about the off axis response in those conditions. Also, say, a string quartet. Or as overheads over strings in a section orchestra. Or even a drum kit. All situations that may not be normal for some guys, but situations which show off what you evidently find irrelevant about the mic. I know, I know, kinda old school to record multiple things at once.
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Post by ragan on May 27, 2019 21:47:58 GMT -6
Unpopular opinion: I think the KM84 off-axis thing is blown out of proportion and approaching canonical internet gear myth status a la SM7b The Giant Killer. Fair enough. I can see how you might feel that way. Have you owned KM84's though and recorded with them in a room with multiple musicians at the same time. i.e. tracking a band? For me, that's were the magic lies. And yeah, it's ALL about the off axis response in those conditions. Also, say, a string quartet. Or as overheads over strings in a section orchestra. Or even a drum kit. All situations that may not be normal for some guys, but situations which show off what you evidently find irrelevant about the mic. I know, I know, kinda old school to record multiple things at once. No, I've never owned them. Just been in sessions with them and rented them for my own use several times. I'm by no means an expert and my comment was meant pretty flippantly. Just feels a little like the Off Axis Secret Magic thing is getting a little ahead of its skis on the internet.
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Post by drbill on May 28, 2019 1:26:48 GMT -6
Fair enough. I can see how you might feel that way. Have you owned KM84's though and recorded with them in a room with multiple musicians at the same time. i.e. tracking a band? For me, that's were the magic lies. And yeah, it's ALL about the off axis response in those conditions. Also, say, a string quartet. Or as overheads over strings in a section orchestra. Or even a drum kit. All situations that may not be normal for some guys, but situations which show off what you evidently find irrelevant about the mic. I know, I know, kinda old school to record multiple things at once. No, I've never owned them. Just been in sessions with them and rented them for my own use several times. I'm by no means an expert and my comment was meant pretty flippantly. Just feels a little like the Off Axis Secret Magic thing is getting a little ahead of its skis on the internet. How can you say if you've never used on in it's preferred situation? Maybe time to try it out.
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Post by allbuttonmode on May 28, 2019 7:44:13 GMT -6
Finally got enough funds to buy 3 013s last week. I've never heard a better tom mic, primarily because of how nice the bleed sounds. Unless you recording wide open toms that ring like crazy, you never really need to gate. All other sdc and dynamics I've used on toms, have nasty sounding bleed, compared to these.
Yesterday I tested them quickly on acoustic guitar and vocals, and they sounded great on both(through an AML 1073). I just threw them up to capture something very quickly, and even then they sounded awesome. I can only imagine what they're able to do, when spending some time getting it right in regards to placement and processing.
Haven't tried them as OHs yet, but will do, and get back to those who asked a few posts up.
In this age of fake and paid reviews in every social media channel, I just want to point out that I am not affiliated with Soyuz in any way. Just very stoked. And skint.
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Post by brenta on May 28, 2019 9:51:40 GMT -6
Has anyone had any issues with the self-noise of the Soyuz 013 FETs?
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Post by Johnkenn on May 28, 2019 9:59:09 GMT -6
Has anyone had any issues with the self-noise of the Soyuz 013 FETs? I might have mentioned earlier but it seems to me these have higher self noise than other sdc’s I’ve used. But I have dropped this thing several times. Lol
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Post by brenta on May 28, 2019 10:32:35 GMT -6
Has anyone had any issues with the self-noise of the Soyuz 013 FETs? I might have mentioned earlier but it seems to me these have higher self noise than other sdc’s I’ve used. But I have dropped this thing several times. Lol Yeah I've seen some other people complaining about the noise on these. How bad is it? If you mic up an acoustic for a stripped down vocal+acoustic track is it noticeable?
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Post by the other mark williams on May 28, 2019 11:04:46 GMT -6
I might have mentioned earlier but it seems to me these have higher self noise than other sdc’s I’ve used. But I have dropped this thing several times. Lol Yeah I've seen some other people complaining about the noise on these. How bad is it? If you mic up an acoustic for a stripped down vocal+acoustic track is it noticeable? I have not found it to be a problem under those conditions personally. I can post some clips in the next couple days.
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Post by WKG on May 28, 2019 20:34:51 GMT -6
Has anyone had any issues with the self-noise of the Soyuz 013 FETs? I was concerned with that initially but have found it not to be an issue. Love the 013's!
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Post by allbuttonmode on May 29, 2019 3:25:43 GMT -6
Has anyone had any issues with the self-noise of the Soyuz 013 FETs? I was concerned with that initially but have found it not to be an issue. Love the 013's! I've not noticed any excessive noise either.
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Post by drsax on May 29, 2019 7:30:07 GMT -6
I might have mentioned earlier but it seems to me these have higher self noise than other sdc’s I’ve used. But I have dropped this thing several times. Lol Yeah I've seen some other people complaining about the noise on these. How bad is it? If you mic up an acoustic for a stripped down vocal+acoustic track is it noticeable? no noise issues here. I’ve used it on Ac Gtr with great results
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Post by brenta on May 29, 2019 14:31:46 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback on the noise, everyone. I pulled the trigger on a pair of the Soyuz 013 FET. I'm thinking about buying a pair of Telefunken M60s as well and then sending back whichever pair I like less.
Has anyone used the Telefunken M60s?
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 4, 2019 1:41:29 GMT -6
OK, so I finally got around to posting these for you guys. It's all scratch tracks, but I actually quite like how they came out. I recorded the tracks a few months back. Here was the setup: Mix #1, the "dry" mix: L channel: a Soyuz 013 pointing just in front (towards the neck) of the soundhole on my 25yr old Taylor 810. Back about 14", give or take. Preamp was a Stam 1073MPA. Through a Stam SA-2A catching peaks. My SA-2A is noisy, so this test will not give you anything to go on in terms of the Soyuz self-noise. R channel: a Soyuz 013 slightly below the neck pointing up towards the neck/body joint on my McIlroy A36c with strings approaching 3yrs old. Back about 12"-14". Preamp was also a Stam 1073MPA, through a Stam SA-2A just like above. Vocal: a Soyuz 013 about 12" over my head and to the left, pointing roughly down towards my nose-ish area at an angle from about 8:00. I was sitting crumpled up in my desk chair to sing. I wanted to get as real world on this shit as possible. This was a really casual placement, and I was singing essentially straight forward with the mic over me at 12" or so, so I was singing past the capsule underneath it. This definitely qualifies as an off-axis placement. Preamp was once again the Stam 1073MPA, and through the Stam SA-2A to push the vocal forward a bit, peaks hitting 5dB maybe. I did a totally "dry mix" with the following on the 2-bus: - Silver Bullet in "N" mode with Tight filter and Vintage filter. Because regardless of any kind of similar test, the SB is going to be parked on my 2-bus.
- Audioscape SSL Bus Comp with slowest attack and Auto release. Needle baaaaarely moving.
- Finally, a DMG TrackLimit set with a ceiling of 0.3. I think it grabbed two quick little spots by 1.3dB.
The dry mix is: House of Broken Dreams dry mix for RGOOr, old school: drive.google.com/file/d/1_P2z2WYZW_MhQNRSTrTHWyM1Y5NBL7EY/view?usp=sharing---------- Mix #2, the "wet" mix: All the parts were recorded in the same way, because they're the exact same takes I then did a "wet mix" for Martin John Butler, because I know he likes to hear some reverb on these tests. The "wet" mix consists of the following: - Silver Bullet in "N" mode with Tight filter and Vintage filter.
- Audioscape SSL Bus Comp with slowest attack and Auto release. Needle baaaaarely moving.
- Zulu on MX mode, Bias as low as it goes (to "-"), Headroom to "Pro", Deck to "Hi", Enhance to one click up from zero. I swear every time I change the settings on my Zulu, I need to take a freakin' class to tell me what everything does. I wish the box were simpler, honestly. But man, it sounds great.
- 3 layers of reverb and 2 layers of delay. Not much there, though. Just kissing things in various combinations. Just wanted to get some depth and a bit of width.
- Deesser on the vocal and on the reverb and delay sends.
- Finally, a DMG TrackLimit set with a ceiling of 0.3. I think it grabbed two quick little spots by 1.3dB.
And here is the "wet mix": House of Broken Dreams wet for RGO
Or old school link: drive.google.com/file/d/14WqJAoQ0nvaSpooW9_9x0-SQyp6CWODy/view?usp=sharingI wanted the wet mix to lean more towards what I would really do if I were mixing this basic arrangement, hence the verbs/delays, deeser, and the Zulu. I tried a bunch of different EQ options on the guitars and especially on the vocal, and I chased my tail for awhile: on my Sennheiser HD 600s, I wanted to calm the top of the vocal a bit, but that sounded a little dull on my mains and on my ATH-M50s. On my ATH-M50s, I wanted to carve out a bit of 200-300Hz, but that made the vocal sound a little thin on the HD-600s and on the mains. I tried all kinds of EQs and eventually decided I was just chasing my tail in circles, so i removed all of my EQ attempts and let everything stay flat. Only exception was leaving the SA-2A on my voice in the mix. So this is probably as much a test of the Zulu as it is of the Soyuz SU-013. I hope you guys find it helpful, and I look forward to hearing your comments. Takes some guts to post scratch tracks. The links are to .mp3 files, but I can supply the 24-bit, 44.1kHz originals if anyone really wants to hear them.
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