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Post by Johnkenn on May 15, 2017 20:24:26 GMT -6
Wonder how these compare to the venerable KM84? Here's a lovely video from bluegrassdan (That's not bluegrass, Dan...) comparing the 84 with the SU-011
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Post by Ward on May 15, 2017 22:01:43 GMT -6
Comparable, equal but different.
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Post by donr on May 15, 2017 22:24:08 GMT -6
Beautifully played. I'll take two of each.
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Post by ragan on May 15, 2017 22:30:45 GMT -6
That is some beautiful playing. And I love the way those Soyuz sound. KM84s are of course a classic, instantly recognizable sound. In this case, I prefer the Soyuz.
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Post by mikec on May 16, 2017 6:29:13 GMT -6
Both sound really great. I have a matched pair of SU-011s and couldn't be happier with them. Anyone know how he had the stereo pair setup for this recording?
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Post by m03 on May 16, 2017 9:17:58 GMT -6
Does anyone here have the FET version mentioned in the title?
Curious about those, given the low sticker price.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 17, 2017 19:41:44 GMT -6
So I bought the SU-013...with money I don't have...
And damn, I'm glad I did! Suuuuper natural. VERY similar to the KM84. Maybe a little less upper mid forward...so it might seem like the lower mids are big and thick. Not sure the bottom is quite as big, but man, excellent, excellnt mic! I'll try and post some raw files.
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Post by Ward on May 17, 2017 19:57:02 GMT -6
So I bought the SU-013...with money I don't have... Brother, can you spare a dime? How much money are we talking here? What's the best street price anyone has found? And damn, I'm glad I did! Suuuuper natural. VERY similar to the KM84. Maybe a little less upper mid forward...so it might seem like the lower mids are big and thick. Not sure the bottom is quite as big, but man, excellent, excellnt mic! I'll try and post some raw files. Your ears are similar enough to mine for me to take your word for it. I'll put it on the list!
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Post by Johnkenn on May 17, 2017 20:01:19 GMT -6
So I bought the SU-013...with money I don't have... Brother, can you spare a dime? How much money are we talking here? What's the best street price anyone has found? And damn, I'm glad I did! Suuuuper natural. VERY similar to the KM84. Maybe a little less upper mid forward...so it might seem like the lower mids are big and thick. Not sure the bottom is quite as big, but man, excellent, excellnt mic! I'll try and post some raw files. Your ears are similar enough to mine for me to take your word for it. I'll put it on the list! I'm sure there might be better ones out there, but I got it for a few shakes less than listed price out the door.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 17, 2017 20:54:49 GMT -6
BTW - I opened it up in the car...and the badge was off. They're gonna get me another one...
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 17, 2017 21:08:01 GMT -6
I just got a pair to try out for a little while, and I plan to borrow my friend's KM84's when he gets back from vacation and do a little shootout video. What interested me in them is they're in the same top shelf class as the KM84, but easily available new with a warranty. No worries about capsule condition, old parts failing, etc..
Although far from cheap, they're fair priced in comparison. Will I prefer it to the 84, I don't know yet, but as great as the 84 is, it does have a slight nasal character, so I can understand why so may classic recordings were done with a U67 on acoustic guitars. It might also prove to be a great combination with an LDC mic when recording acoustic guitar and vocals at the same time.
The slight difference you hear in the low end was actually something I often have to dial out when using the K84's. Solo, it's lovely, but in a track, it was often in the way.
It's highly possible the 0-13 will be even closer to the KM84, and potentially even better, since it's FET like the KM84 is.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 17, 2017 22:12:09 GMT -6
I'll say this - it reminds me of the KM84 in this regard...it just works. I'm not futzing with it to try and make it work. I recorded two parts and panned L&R...I had initially EQ'd the first guitar with a little boost at 5kHz...but ultimately took it off after hearing them together. Then added a little 10kHz from Gold. Really, really awesome.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 17, 2017 22:14:40 GMT -6
I'll definitely get something uploaded tomorrow. I've got the Coil Audio CP-248 Phantom PS...so I'll probably post some comparison files.
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Post by stormymondays on May 18, 2017 3:24:47 GMT -6
Dammit, I really wanted to like the Soyuz, but I think the KM84 still wins...
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,919
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Post by ericn on May 18, 2017 6:34:50 GMT -6
So I bought the SU-013...with money I don't have... And damn, I'm glad I did! Suuuuper natural. VERY similar to the KM84. Maybe a little less upper mid forward...so it might seem like the lower mids are big and thick. Not sure the bottom is quite as big, but man, excellent, excellnt mic! I'll try and post some raw files. Of course you did !
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Post by Johnkenn on May 18, 2017 6:47:08 GMT -6
I thought the 011 was a little softer in that video, which sounded like less detail. I'd love to hear that with the 013.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 18, 2017 9:16:15 GMT -6
John said, " I'd love to hear that with the 013". Me too, the 0-13 is an FET design, and it's possible it will be closer, and even more competitive with a KM84 since that's an FET mic too.
The 0-17 and 0-11's are tube mics, and they have a beautiful smoothness that in a way could be thought of as being softer, but it's deceptive, and I'd call it smoother and less harsh.
In the tracks I did with the 0-17 when I had it for a week, I happened to have done the same vocal track with my Blackspade UM-17B then, and that mic is perhaps the MOST detailed vocal mic I've ever heard, and the Soyuz 0-17 sounded better. The detail was there, but there was more depth and tone in the low end, so the vocal detail just blended in more because was more there of other important things too. The Soyuz was more voluptuous.
I'm looking forward to comparing them to my friend's KM84's, as soon as he gets back from his vacation.
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Post by drsax on May 18, 2017 9:28:04 GMT -6
Diggin the sounds I'm hearing out of these Soyuz mics. Wouldn't mind having a pair of 011's and a 017.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 18, 2017 11:40:09 GMT -6
Just in case you guys didn't see this, I did a video demo last year:
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Post by reddirt on May 18, 2017 16:02:18 GMT -6
Very nice Martin, thanks for putting yourself out there - good song well played and sung. The mics certainly are up to par and I doubt anyone would be surprised if they were a U 47 and Km 84s instead of the Soyuz. What pattern did you run the 0-17 in as there's an impressive lack of phase cancellation, everything sounds full, natural, yet not over bloated. Cheers, Ross
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Post by Johnkenn on May 18, 2017 17:07:41 GMT -6
I recently listened to one of Martin's examples with a couple of the other soyuz and they sounded great. It led to me buying the 013. Hear that manufacturers?
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 18, 2017 20:56:11 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I was recently asked if I would like to be a featured artist by the guys at Warm Audio. They'd received emails saying that it was the way my videos were done that convinced them to buy one of their products. Warm has grown a lot, and I'm glad I helped push that along a little, and I'm very grateful for the support Warm Audio has given me.
Ross, I used the 0-17 in standard cardioid. The video was lip synced. I actually had two of the 0-11's, and positioned one in front, and one directly over my right shoulder, up a bit high. What was unusual, was there were no phase issues, no artifacts, and I could dial in as much or as little of the overhead mic as I wanted.
The reason I've been a staunch supporter of the Soyuz mics is they were shooting for world class, but they weren't yet one more clone or "in the style of" mic. They were a new design, with their own identifiable sound, but obviously rooted in classic designs. I liked that they were completely hand made by humans, not sourced, other than the actual metal I guess. There's energy transmitted you can feel when people in a company put heart and soul into the design and manufacturing. So you could now can actually get something on par with a real U67 or U47 without paying five figures to get there. Only recently Chandler entered the fray with their REDD "47", and that looks like it's a viable thing too. I can't wait to try one.
Of course, the 0-17 has a K67 style capsule, so the family resemblance to Neumann is there, but they really do sound different enough to be considered a new design.
The 0-13 is of course a challenge to the KM-84. The 84 just hit the bullseye, and nothing else has been able to dethrone it yet. But to get a beautiful handmade new mic, with a warranty that clearly competes favorably is a great thing. No worries about buying used without hearing it, or old parts failing.
I haven't tracked with it yet, but will begin trying a few things out soon, and i'll borrow my friend's KM84 soon to compare.
* forgot to say, I have nothing against a good clone or "in the style of" mic if it's done well and fairly priced, like Warm Audio or Stam have done.
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Post by rowmat on May 18, 2017 23:15:59 GMT -6
Nice comparison. The Soyuz sound very good but are slightly scooped. Not much, just a little. This is why KM84's nearly always appear mid-forward especially in comparison with most other SDC's. They aren't mid-forward to my ears at all. It's just that they aren't scooped or hyped in the highs like most other SDC's so the mids are balanced and they have excellent off axis characteristics which many mics don't. "Nasal" is probably the last thing I would ever describe a KM84 as being. It appears these Soyuz are nearer to the KM84 camp than many. I wouldn't kick a pair out of bed but I as I won't be parting with my KM84's anytime soon I'm not in the market at the moment for any SDC's. Hell even Oktava MK012's get closer to KM84's than KM184's! WTF was Neumann thinking?
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Post by reddirt on May 19, 2017 0:14:49 GMT -6
Lip-syncing; phew! For a while there I believed all my experience and conclusions that recording soloists with 2 or 3 cardioid mics particularly so far from the source, meant phase cancellations had been rendered null and void by these mics. Can now jump dpwn off the scrap heap! Whatever, they still sound really good and if we couldn't make a great record with them it's definitely not the mics' fault. Go you good things. Cheers, Ross
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Post by hadaja on Jul 27, 2017 22:56:04 GMT -6
Soyuz SU-013 Okay I jumped on the bandwagon and bought one of these. I own a have owned a few SDC like the km84, km184, Beyer MC930 UM70 and other variants and cheaper models. I just did a quick test on my brand new 013 and was wondering if my impressions are similar to others. After Running it through a EZ1290 Neve clone preamp I have found the sound of the 013 not so much like the KM84 as I first initially thought. The 013 is clear very clear on the top. like super clear and clean but not brittle but maybe only small steps away from that I imagine. It does have some low end bit notlike the Neumann KM84 and it does have some mids but it sounds like the top end of the mids - low highs are fairly strong on this mic. I like that it has a tighter pattern then my Km84 and I like that it maintains the same sound a little off axis like the KM84. This mic does not need much juice to make it work so I understand why it ships with a -10db pad (which took me a little while to work what this extra thing is). I am looking forward to pairing it up with some of my lower gain tube pres I have I think it may be a great combo.And maybe see what other darker pres I have and see how that works. I grabbed the closet SDC to me which was a Miktek PM5 to compare. I tell you the PM5 sounds just a little hazy but only a bit when directly on the source in comparison. The differences are very small directly on. But the differences become larger the further off-axis you are to the source. PM5 fades away to not so nice. But as a cheaper mic at the time of purchase the Miktek is a great performer versus value. I will have to dig out my Beyer MC930's and do some comparisons as I just love those. I think they have been my favourite KM84 styled mics over the years but still do thee own thing. The Soyuz 013 does not like close vocals without a screen. Plenty of plosives where as the PM5. MC930's has no problems with these. But this is not how i generally record. I think mic positioning will be interesting with the Soyuz 013 as it seems to exhibit a tighter pattern then my other SDC's and the Km84. So does this all sound familiar for 013 users? Or has my multiple Coffees tipped over the edge today?
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