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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 10, 2017 15:50:45 GMT -6
Peeps might have noticed on the Stam Fb page there s a contest to win one of the 47: you know, just in case, free is is appealing ?
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 11, 2017 4:23:10 GMT -6
Peeps might have noticed on the Stam Fb page there s a contest to win one of the 47: you know, just in case, free is is appealing ? I entered.
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Post by organicsounds on Oct 11, 2017 7:03:18 GMT -6
2 Things
1) Joshua realized that the product he promised was not going to live up to his or our expectations. Behind the scenes he worked to create "that product" and when he did he informed those that pre-ordered the initial offering that there was a change, he apologized, offered a choice between a refund or to move our deposits to the new offering. Regardless of how you look at it Joshua did the standup thing and I'm sure it wasn't easy but nonetheless noble considering he risked his reputation either way but he chose to do what he believed was the right direction putting the product first.
2) I was going to build this exact mic (same components) and priced it out at nearly $2,000 CAD with shipping. My final price from Stam will be considerably less. I believe this is the better design and will deliver a product that will meet our expectations.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 11, 2017 7:53:54 GMT -6
1) Joshua realized that the product he promised was not going to live up to his or our expectations. Behind the scenes he worked to create "that product" and when he did he informed those that pre-ordered the initial offering that there was a change, he apologized, offered a choice between a refund or to move our deposits to the new offering. Regardless of how you look at it Joshua did the standup thing and I'm sure it wasn't easy but nonetheless noble considering he risked his reputation either way but he chose to do what he believed was the right direction putting the product first. The timing is the issue. The mics were supposed to be delivered in September. We should have been informed that the product wasn't going to work out as soon as the project was scrapped, not after the scheduled delivery time.
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Post by organicsounds on Oct 11, 2017 8:05:59 GMT -6
1) Joshua realized that the product he promised was not going to live up to his or our expectations. Behind the scenes he worked to create "that product" and when he did he informed those that pre-ordered the initial offering that there was a change, he apologized, offered a choice between a refund or to move our deposits to the new offering. Regardless of how you look at it Joshua did the standup thing and I'm sure it wasn't easy but nonetheless noble considering he risked his reputation either way but he chose to do what he believed was the right direction putting the product first. The timing is the issue. The mics were supposed to be delivered in September. We should have been informed that the product wasn't going to work out as soon as the project was scrapped, not after the scheduled delivery time. Yes there is that issue. I have mentioned the “Under Promise and Over deliver” concept to Stam early on which I believe would help them with this concern.
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Post by jdc on Oct 11, 2017 9:53:45 GMT -6
stam what is the new timeline for invoices and delivery of the updated sa-47 so that those of us keeping our orders can budget appropriately?
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 11, 2017 19:29:59 GMT -6
Stam refunded me so if you aren’t happy take that route! Hope this mic is a success and those that ordered are happy
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Post by dandeurloo on Oct 13, 2017 11:55:39 GMT -6
"The tubes were also not reliable." Wait a minute.....the dual tube setup from the max design is not reliable? LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! Go figure. Maybe he should have consulted with svart. He said he can make pretty much any of the $5 tubes work. (And I believe him - although there's obviously something in the initial design that prohibited this from happening in a majority of builds) Best of luck to those getting or getting out of these. I'd personally want to hear clips from the FINAL production version. The initial price did seem extremely low based on the high price of individual parts on these style runs. New price seems fair if it delivers. Hard to believe right. haha
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Post by malkit on Oct 13, 2017 14:34:14 GMT -6
I was holding back, before, because I'm a fan of the D7 capsule and was hoping Stam would use that. Given that he switched, now, I'm doing the pre-order for the 1390.00 price. It's definitely still a bargain, and- after that shootout- hopefully worth the wait.
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Post by jakeharris on Oct 13, 2017 20:35:56 GMT -6
(And I believe him - although there's obviously something in the initial design that prohibited this from happening in a majority of builds) Just a though about the noise, the initial design did use a carbon-comp plate resistor. CC's can hiss like crazy, especially on plate. Could explain why for some, endless tube rolling made no difference.
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Post by drbill on Oct 13, 2017 23:00:26 GMT -6
It was not hiss. Snap, crackle and POP!!!
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Post by jakeharris on Oct 14, 2017 5:59:59 GMT -6
They do all that too!!!
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Post by jayson on Oct 14, 2017 7:49:35 GMT -6
Jeremy I agree but let's face facts 80% of Audio products are chasing the past! For years I tried to build my personal collection on the tools you wouldn't find in a normal studio, then I found myself walking into bedrooms called studios without the must haves, well they had the plugin version! As I rebuild from my last sell off I am focusing on the more esoteric. Personally I am more likely to Buy Sony, Gefell Sanken MBHO or the Chandler mic before a clone ! I have to agree here, but I think if you're going to talk about how recreations differ from the vintage originals it's also necessary to address the lack of the actual materials that created those mics. Namely armaments grade metals. The role the spent 40mm artillery shell casings that littered Germany after the war played in constructing mics never seems to get much mention - and maybe I'm mistaken and it's not that relevant. But having said that, take a look at this image - can you imagine the casings in the back-right of this image having a U47 head grill? I'd bet the brass bases of those shells could be machined into some pretty sweet back-plates and the steel from the armor that protected the gun that fired those shells would've made great transformer cores. Considering the state of affairs in post war Germany, they had to make the best of whatever materials they had access to and stuff like this would've topped the list. It seems kind of inevitable that the character of the mics would change as those materials became more historically distant and harder to come by and as a result replaced with more practical surrogates- even when they were/are produced by the original manufacturers.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 14, 2017 8:09:54 GMT -6
I agree with jayson in the sense that everything matters. There are a few great new mics, but the price is prohibitive. It's not from gouging, it costs a lot to manufacture everything and then market it. Chandler's REDD 47 is amazing, it might be the new heavyweight champ. The Soyuz 0-17 is amazing, and when testing mics for compatibility with a particular vocalist , either of those would likely be your choice, even if you had a U47 to compare to. They cost, $5,000 and $3,500, which is a great deal if you compare to prices on vintage gear. But for me, the bottom's dropped out of the music business, and those mics are in a league I can't play in right now.
So, for Stam to even get in the ballpark is a miracle for guys like me. I'm grateful Stam Audio even exists, even if there are some big bumps in the road along the way. My income may have tanked, but my tastes haven't.
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 14, 2017 9:20:24 GMT -6
I completely understand why someone who preordered this microphone would be upset that a month after they were due to receive it they were told that the initial design had been scrapped and a newer better design was put in it's place, but was going to cost more money. I imagine Stam uses those preorder funds for R&D and loosing funds in the middle of R&D would be an issue. Either way, it shouldn't have been handled that way. I'm happy to see that Stam is offering refunds for those unhappy with the new pricing to try and make it right.
That said, where are you going to find a U47 clone that comes this close for this pricing? A few people have already said that a DIY build like this would still cost 2k. Advanced Audio's CM48T doesn't really sound like a U47. It is its own beast, although I've never heard a microphone that good for $599.99. Peluso's 2247LE has a U47ish sound and quality, but a different top end and not as much low end reach, and is $1000 more than the SA47. Peluso's 2247SE is closer in pricing, but even brighter with less low end (don't fall into the trap. They do not sound the same. lol). BLUE's B7 on the Bottle or Bottle Rocket II is debatable. It has a similar sound, but different saturation characteristics. The Bottle is still around 4k, Bottle Rocket II about 1k these days, and the B7 cap $600. The FLEA 47 is a hell of a microphone. It's not as rich in the low end as a Wagner U47W I've tried, and had a little more air up top. It actually seemed more versatile because of it, but the FLEA 47 is 4K. After that we start pushing into Wunder and Telefunken territory, or a Wagner if you can find one.
Anyway, If Joshua is still tweaking this a little and gets a little more air in the top like the U47 he shot it out against, this mic should be a no-brainer for someone looking for a U47 sound under 2k. There's nothing else like it in this range. I hope I get to try one.
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Post by ragan on Oct 14, 2017 10:21:34 GMT -6
Funny how we all hear things differently. I did not hear the U47 as having more air than the Stam.
But yeah, your post is right. I've had my qualms with Stam and even I'm tempted by this 47. The comparison sounded damn good. Also his U87 sounds fantastic.
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 14, 2017 11:12:28 GMT -6
Funny how we all hear things differently. I did not hear the U47 as having more air than the Stam. But yeah, your post is right. I've had my qualms with Stam and even I'm tempted by this 47. The comparison sounded damn good. Also his U87 sounds fantastic. LOL. It's funny how some people's warm is other people's muddy and some people's present is other people's harsh. I'm actually really interested in the SA87. After trying dozens of mics on my wife and continually coming back to my U87ai as the best mic for the heart and soul of her voice, I'd love a back up and the SA87 sounds really good.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,937
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Post by ericn on Oct 14, 2017 11:18:33 GMT -6
Jeremy I agree but let's face facts 80% of Audio products are chasing the past! For years I tried to build my personal collection on the tools you wouldn't find in a normal studio, then I found myself walking into bedrooms called studios without the must haves, well they had the plugin version! As I rebuild from my last sell off I am focusing on the more esoteric. Personally I am more likely to Buy Sony, Gefell Sanken MBHO or the Chandler mic before a clone ! I have to agree here, but I think if you're going to talk about how recreations differ from the vintage originals it's also necessary to address the lack of the actual materials that created those mics. Namely armaments grade metals. The role the spent 40mm artillery shell casings that littered Germany after the war played in constructing mics never seems to get much mention - and maybe I'm mistaken and it's not that relevant. But having said that, take a look at this image - can you imagine the casings in the back-right of this image having a U47 head grill? I'd bet the brass bases of those shells could be machined into some pretty sweet back-plates and the steel from the armor that protected the gun that fired those shells would've made great transformer cores. Considering the state of affairs in post war Germany, they had to make the best of whatever materials they had access to and stuff like this would've topped the list. It seems kind of inevitable that the character of the mics would change as those materials became more historically distant and harder to come by and as a result replaced with more practical surrogates- even when they were/are produced by the original manufacturers. No doubt Jayson just look at the diaphragm material, capacitors, resistors and Transformer winding materials. The fact is we are chasing the results of 1940-60's technologies with 2017 technologies & we don't have a time machine!
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Post by jakeharris on Oct 14, 2017 11:35:13 GMT -6
That said, where are you going to find a U47 clone that comes this close for this pricing? A few people have already said that a DIY build like this would still cost 2k. No no, this exact build would cost you around $1K DIY. It's good to hype things up and recognise a good deal, but being realistic, there probably isn't a single microphone currently available that uses $2'000 or more worth of parts. Even the $10K mics don't cost that much in parts. But where you are saving money compared to other commercial products, is by buying direct. If he was selling through a dealer, his price would easily be $2'200. You save a cool 30% right there. On top of that, Stam's margins aren't big, and he definitely needs to get credit for that. Any extra revenue here can't really be counted as profit, it's pretty much labour only. These things take a good bit of time to put together and test.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 14, 2017 11:37:41 GMT -6
All the ones you mentioned can be had used in that range though. Pearlman mics are pretty well regarded and can be found in that price ballpark too. Blackspade? Geffell? U89's. Ton of competition at that price point.
I'm still in the fence personally.
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Post by drbill on Oct 14, 2017 11:41:53 GMT -6
Funny how we all hear things differently. I did not hear the U47 as having more air than the Stam. But yeah, your post is right. I've had my qualms with Stam and even I'm tempted by this 47. The comparison sounded damn good. Also his U87 sounds fantastic. LOL. It's funny how some people's warm is other people's muddy and some people's present is other people's harsh. I'm actually really interested in the SA87. After trying dozens of mics on my wife and continually coming back to my U87ai as the best mic for the heart and soul of her voice, I'd love a back up and the SA87 sounds really good. The 87 is probably the most maligned mic on the planet. Personally, I can't figure it out. I've cut everything from dulcimers and mandolin's to acoustics to nylon strings to bass to standup bass to drums in all positions to string quartets to orchestras to vocals on 87's. Countless vocals. On dozens of albums from custom can't sing worth a damn vocals to Grammy winning performances that stand the test of time. The 87 delivers. Always. Never sounded bad to me. If you can't do a record with only 87's, you can't do a record. Maybe not the perfect mic 100% of the time, but IMO, one of if not the most versatile and finest mics on the planet. If it works for your wife, why look any further??? Forget screwing around with clones. Get yourself a vintage version, and then buy an inner tube tube insert for the mic. You will have a solid state gold-standard contender, AND one of the sweetest valve mics on the planet. A serious all-rounder in one package that takes about 2 minutes to change over. Forget the DIY 47 clones - they are a dime a dozen, and most worth about that much. There are awesome mics that are decades proven for not that much money out there. (Gefell included) [edit] - PS - I know it's a controversial viewpoint, but it's what I believe. I love tube mics, but I find myself reaching for solid state mics as often or more than my tubed variants. You can't go wrong with a vintage87, and some of the AI's seem to be as good too.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 14, 2017 12:01:16 GMT -6
Countless vocals. On dozens of albums from custom can't sing worth a damn vocals to Grammy winning performances that stand the test of time. ...you know what I'm going to ask...
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Post by wiz on Oct 14, 2017 16:05:03 GMT -6
There's is an innertube mod for a 87?
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 14, 2017 16:06:22 GMT -6
drbill, not bad advice at all and something I'm considering. I have the Max Mod for the U87ai which gives me the U67 and a linear mode which is similar to the inner tube I believe, so my set up is pretty good at the moment. The U87 is a great mic, there was always just something missing on my voice. Anyway, I don't want to take over the convo. Back to the SA47.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 14, 2017 16:35:13 GMT -6
All the ones you mentioned can be had used in that range though. Pearlman mics are pretty well regarded and can be found in that price ballpark too. Blackspade? Geffell? U89's. Ton of competition at that price point. I'm still in the fence personally. You are right! And most of these mics are available in 2-3 days at your door. Tons of competition at $1000 - $ 1600... Brand New Tm1 pearlman, Cathedral Pipes Regensburg Dom, www.cathedralpipes.com/regensburg.php -> bad ass mic and components. Or could go with the used Miktek CV4 and then send to Shannon at mic rehab 🤠 knowing your skills Jesse, u could prob find one for $8-900... it’s got the ami tranny , ef800 t funk tube, good circuit and then Shannon drops in a beauty capsule and tweaks .. I assume that would be-> $900 -$1k for mic -> $200-350 at mic rehab ( guess )
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