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Post by stam on Oct 9, 2017 19:58:15 GMT -6
I saw on the purple site, that the SA47 in the form it was originally advertised as, is no more. Josh has said that product has been cancelled. He has another 47 he is going to use, I think it has a different capsule and different transformer to the original offer. The price for those who pre ordered will be 1290USD with its retail price being 1590USD. Now as thats a 500USD rise on what I pre ordered, I have opted out. I can't afford that sort of price rise. He is going to send out a newsletter via email tomorrow advising all this. Its a shame... The communication of this stuff could certainly be handled better. Cheers Wiz Joshua himself just posted a shootout in another thread here on RGO. Like 2 days ago. What's going on with this mic??? The dual pentode tube project has been cancelled. The mic posted here is the new one based on the Telefunken EF800 tube Several major upgrades had to happen to achieve that. Everybody who wants to get a refund will get refunded, alternatively they can jump in on the new one with a 300 dollar discount plus a 100 dollar discount on any future orders. Newsletter goes out tomorrow.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 9, 2017 20:32:11 GMT -6
So we haven't been listening to the mike we thought we were listening too and it actually is a fair bit more expensive ?
Having bought and built the ioauduo mk-u47 with the Thiersch cap, the price point on the first stam 47 seemed kind of unreal to me.
Sorry this has happened for people but I frankly never understood that first price: Max's diy kit without a capsule was more 3 year's ago: seemed too good to be true?
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Post by stam on Oct 9, 2017 20:42:55 GMT -6
Yes, it is definitely poor planing on my side. I thought I could make this work with the T47 and a cheaper capsule, it sounded very good but then came the time for testing vs the original and there was something missing everywhere, low, mids and highs. The tubes were also not reliable.
I then tested several capsules, Thiersch included, Dany's D7, etc.., the biggest difference was the output transformer, the AMI BV08 sounded so much closer to the Neumann mic, in the end I had to decide between putting out a mic at a cheap price that sounded good but not close enough or raising the price and selling what we had achieved with endless hours of testing.
This mic is on the same league as other popular clones that cost 4 or even 6 times as much, it actually uses more expensive parts.
At 1.290 for those who originally reserved I don't make a profit, I am actually literally building them for what they cost. I will only offer it at this price this once to make up for my mistake and the fact that I took much longer to get there.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 10, 2017 6:09:56 GMT -6
Yes, it is definitely poor planing on my side. I thought I could make this work with the T47 and a cheaper capsule, it sounded very good but then came the time for testing vs the original and there was something missing everywhere, low, mids and highs. The tubes were also not reliable. I then tested several capsules, Thiersch included, Dany's D7, etc.., the biggest difference was the output transformer, the AMI BV08 sounded so much closer to the Neumann mic, in the end I had to decide between putting out a mic at a cheap price that sounded good but not close enough or raising the price and selling what we had achieved with endless hours of testing. This mic is on the same league as other popular clones that cost 4 or even 6 times as much, it actually uses more expensive parts. At 1.290 for those who originally reserved I don't make a profit, I am actually literally building them for what they cost. I will only offer it at this price this once to make up for my mistake and the fact that I took much longer to get there. The issue is that the mic I reserved was originally scheduled to ship last month. I haven't seen any communication about my mic until the post here from wiz last night. Now, the mic is already a month late and the price just jumped $500 dollars. This kind of news needs to be communicated much, much, sooner than a month after the ship date. When are the new mics going to be shipping? Maybe you should raise prices across the board and hire a PR person. I imagine you're going to have a number of alienated customers when they find out the news this late in the game.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 10, 2017 6:37:34 GMT -6
No one can change the past, so I guess Joshua will be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't: guess his only option was to be straight up now and offer people the option of getting the new mike/. The new price makes sense to me as you can't both have the high parts' quality and the low price if people are to make some money ? Also, lets remember the new mike that we heard here, really does sound good and is still a very good deal relatively speaking. Anybody priced a used Flea recently ?
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 10, 2017 6:58:44 GMT -6
Yes, it is definitely poor planing on my side. I thought I could make this work with the T47 and a cheaper capsule, it sounded very good but then came the time for testing vs the original and there was something missing everywhere, low, mids and highs. The tubes were also not reliable. I then tested several capsules, Thiersch included, Dany's D7, etc.., the biggest difference was the output transformer, the AMI BV08 sounded so much closer to the Neumann mic, in the end I had to decide between putting out a mic at a cheap price that sounded good but not close enough or raising the price and selling what we had achieved with endless hours of testing. This mic is on the same league as other popular clones that cost 4 or even 6 times as much, it actually uses more expensive parts. At 1.290 for those who originally reserved I don't make a profit, I am actually literally building them for what they cost. I will only offer it at this price this once to make up for my mistake and the fact that I took much longer to get there. Maybe you should raise prices across the board and hire a PR person. As a general observation I think this is excellent advice!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 10, 2017 7:59:22 GMT -6
I understand how some people might be upset, but Joshua has offered refunds, which is important to note. I think this is a good thing.
I have a saying about throwing good money after bad. It means $900 is too much money to spend if $1,300 gets you what you really want. I've heard a few transformers, and the BV-08 is special, it just has the right Neumanesque vibe and is worth every penny in the satisfaction it will bring. I had a $2,200 mic with a high quality Haufe BV8, and preferred the previous edition with the AMI transformer by far. I sold it in frustration.
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Post by ragan on Oct 10, 2017 8:45:00 GMT -6
That's a bummer, but it's kind of what you sign up for with Stam.
Joshua makes some really high quality stuff but the communication/timeline stuff is a fiasco.
I was super impressed with that recent video comparison. If I ever have $1500 (or whatever it's going to be) and a year or so to kill, I may grab one.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 10, 2017 8:54:41 GMT -6
That's a bummer, but it's kind of what you sign up for with Stam. Joshua makes some really high quality stuff but the communication/timeline stuff is a fiasco. I was super impressed with that recent video comparison. If I ever have $1500 (or whatever it's going to be) and a year or so to kill, I may grab one. This is why I wasn't sending emails looking for updates on my mic that was past the due date. I know that my SA4k was super late, so I was just waiting this thing out. The deal was good enough where it was worth the wait. Finding out that it's not actually coming anytime soon and at more than a 50% price jump, it's hard to swallow.
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Post by ragan on Oct 10, 2017 8:59:34 GMT -6
That's a bummer, but it's kind of what you sign up for with Stam. Joshua makes some really high quality stuff but the communication/timeline stuff is a fiasco. I was super impressed with that recent video comparison. If I ever have $1500 (or whatever it's going to be) and a year or so to kill, I may grab one. This is why I wasn't sending emails looking for updates on my mic that was past the due date. I know that my SA4k was super late, so I was just waiting this thing out. The deal was good enough where it was worth the wait. Finding out that it's not actually coming anytime soon and at more than a 50% price jump, it's hard to swallow. Yeah, no doubt. That's a pretty tough move from Stam.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 10, 2017 9:21:43 GMT -6
It amazes me that anyone is willing to do this informal cross-border pre-order thing. More power to ya.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Oct 10, 2017 9:25:22 GMT -6
Being still waiting for an SA-3A and an SA-76, I know what's the deal with Stam, now. You have amazing gear at a great price. What's the catch ? You have to wait, and can't trust any deadline. Is it worth it ? That's personnal. Is he honest ? I think he is, and that means a lot. You can always get a refund, so you're not tied up to anything.
We never can have everything : if the product costs 3 times less than other ones and performs equally well, then you have to pay somewhere else. Here it is the waiting time, and the inconsistency.
I made peace with it. At least I have an "almost" LA-2A, and will have one day an "almost" La-3A and 1176rev.A. Things I would propably never have had otherwise.
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 10, 2017 9:29:11 GMT -6
I have to say, the updated pricing seems more like what I would have expected. I commented earlier on this thread that I was surprised how close in pricing the original offering was to their SA87 pricing. I do love what I've heard from both the Stam mics. Looking forward to trying one in the future.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Oct 10, 2017 9:31:54 GMT -6
That's a bummer, but it's kind of what you sign up for with Stam. Joshua makes some really high quality stuff but the communication/timeline stuff is a fiasco. I was super impressed with that recent video comparison. If I ever have $1500 (or whatever it's going to be) and a year or so to kill, I may grab one. This is why I wasn't sending emails looking for updates on my mic that was past the due date. I know that my SA4k was super late, so I was just waiting this thing out. The deal was good enough where it was worth the wait. Finding out that it's not actually coming anytime soon and at more than a 50% price jump, it's hard to swallow. This is exactly why I haven't signed up for any other purchases. The SA4000 was a nightmare wait time, then the shipping cost, and it shows up with different I/O on the back then what I thought I was getting. Good piece of gear for the price? -Absolutely. Did I have to wait close to a year to get it? -Yup Hindsight, would I make the purchase again? -Probably not, I'd have just gone with something I could have ordered and been using 3 days later. You DO get what you sign up for at this point however. I don't think there has been a single on time product that Stam has put out. Sure, it may be a good product when you recieve it, but thats only half of it. Customer service and communication are a big deal in this small industry. Joshua, there is nothing wrong with overestimating the delivery/build time of a product. If something shows up 2 months early its great! 2 months late and people legitimately have a gripe.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 10, 2017 9:33:00 GMT -6
Being still waiting for an SA-3A and an SA-76, I know what's the deal with Stam, now. You have amazing gear at a great price. What's the catch ? You have to wait, and can't trust any deadline. Is it worth it ? That's personnal. Is he honest ? I think he is, and that means a lot. You can always get a refund, so you're not tied up to anything. We never can have everything : if the product costs 3 times less than other ones and performs equally well, then you have to pay somewhere else. Here it is the waiting time, and the inconsistency. I made peace with it. At least I have an "almost" LA-2A, and will have one day an "almost" La-3A and 1176rev.A. Things I would propably never have had otherwise. Yeah, it's not the wait that's the issue though. If the 76revA that you've been waiting 6 months for, suddenly changes into a 76revD and the price jumps $500, your tune might change a bit. I was cool with the wait. Waiting is the way to get the deal...
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Post by stam on Oct 10, 2017 9:56:17 GMT -6
I have been working to fix this issues and have permanent stock People seem to forget they get a really nice discount in exchange of the wait, if you don't want to wait you can always buy in stock Problem is every-time I try to make more units more demands come and we are always trying to catch up I take my time to make things perfect, it is the price to pay on my side
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Oct 10, 2017 10:26:04 GMT -6
Being still waiting for an SA-3A and an SA-76, I know what's the deal with Stam, now. You have amazing gear at a great price. What's the catch ? You have to wait, and can't trust any deadline. Is it worth it ? That's personnal. Is he honest ? I think he is, and that means a lot. You can always get a refund, so you're not tied up to anything. We never can have everything : if the product costs 3 times less than other ones and performs equally well, then you have to pay somewhere else. Here it is the waiting time, and the inconsistency. I made peace with it. At least I have an "almost" LA-2A, and will have one day an "almost" La-3A and 1176rev.A. Things I would propably never have had otherwise. Yeah, it's not the wait that's the issue though. If the 76revA that you've been waiting 6 months for, suddenly changes into a 76revD and the price jumps $500, your tune might change a bit. I was cool with the wait. Waiting is the way to get the deal... Yes, I agree with you, with one tint : Joshua is making DIY products. He fine-tunes them, builds them, finds all the parts, etc... But if my rev.A was all of a sudden getting a 500$ increase, I could always cancel my order, get a refund, and get either a Hairball or a Proreplicas, or build it myself. My point being there are alternatives, his products can be found everywhere from other brands, and I see Josh as the guy I would hire to build me a DIY product. And things like change of plans, delays, price increase or decrease always happen in DIY. I respect the fact that he refuses to have his name on an "inferior" product. I agree he should have chosen his components before announcing a price and taking pre-orders. Definitely.
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Post by pope on Oct 10, 2017 10:31:19 GMT -6
Yes, I agree with you, with one tint : Joshua is making DIY products. He fine-tunes them, builds them, finds all the parts, etc... But if my rev.A was all of a sudden getting a 500$ increase, I could always cancel my order, get a refund, and get either a Hairball or a Proreplicas, or build it myself. My point being there are alternatives, his products can be found everywhere from other brands, and I see Josh as the guy I would hire to build me a DIY product. And things like change of plans, delays, price increase or decrease always happen in DIY. But I thought that all the Sttam products are built in China or something like that? Not saying they're good or bad, just that it's not a DIY kinda thing. I consider Proreplicas more of a DIY built and Stam more on the mass-ish production side.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Oct 10, 2017 10:43:08 GMT -6
Well La-2As, SSL Gcomps, 1176s, U87s, U47s and others are part of the DIY products since years, now. Stam is using for his mics PCBs, transfos and capsules aimed at the DIY community. And Joshua has been very honest in always telling what parts he is using. Proreplicas is the same as Stam except for the price and yes, the "mass" production. Apparently, products are more high-grade, but I would not bet a lot on it. I have a pair of blue stripes revA from Proreplicas, and they are amazing. I am eager to test them against Stam's take on it ! I think what differs the most is marketing, and a different salesman energy, I guess. I personnaly am really enjoying this explosion of affordable products. btw, I believe Stams builds everything by hand in Chile.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 10, 2017 10:48:57 GMT -6
No offence, I thought that wasn't true" that everything was built by hand in Chile. I remember Joshua saying some piece of at least one product was made in China shipped to him and then they did finally assembly ?
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Post by pope on Oct 10, 2017 10:49:26 GMT -6
Are you sure? I might be wrong but I remember him saying that he gets the units built in China and then he'll just add stuff like transformers/ tubes/ etc... Again, take this with a grain of salt as I'm not 100% sure.
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Post by drbill on Oct 10, 2017 10:55:47 GMT -6
"The tubes were also not reliable."
Wait a minute.....the dual tube setup from the max design is not reliable? LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! Go figure. Maybe he should have consulted with svart. He said he can make pretty much any of the $5 tubes work. (And I believe him - although there's obviously something in the initial design that prohibited this from happening in a majority of builds)
Best of luck to those getting or getting out of these. I'd personally want to hear clips from the FINAL production version. The initial price did seem extremely low based on the high price of individual parts on these style runs. New price seems fair if it delivers.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Oct 10, 2017 11:08:09 GMT -6
Are you sure? I might be wrong but I remember him saying that he gets the units built in China and then he'll just add stuff like transformers/ tubes/ etc... Again, take this with a grain of salt as I'm not 100% sure. No, you are right I'm not sure. I will edit my post. Thanks.
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Post by ragan on Oct 10, 2017 11:36:36 GMT -6
He's clarified it with me in other threads. It varies from piece to piece. Seems for the most part the outboard stuff (SSL comp, 1073, SA-2a, etc) is largely built in China but he does final assembly and calibration in Chile. I gather that can mean anything from knobs to more extensive add-ons like transformers or other components.
I've accused him of being cagey about it, he feels like he's been totally straight up and forthright. We agree to disagree and I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between.
The mics, last I heard, are all handbuilt there in Chile, hence the higher prices.
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Post by stam on Oct 10, 2017 15:33:15 GMT -6
SA2A, 1073, SA4000, SA76, SA3A are made in 2 steps. PCB populating and chassis in China, all the rest (transformers, tubes, some capacitors, knobs, T4b and the quality control) in Chile
SA87, SA47, SA47 FET are 100% hand made in Chile. They have the same price as the outboard, it doesn't cut cost nor make it more expensive.
All other outboard gear is also 100% hand made in Chile, this includes several new units we will be releasing soon.
It has to do with parts more than anything.
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