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Post by scumbum on May 2, 2017 9:44:01 GMT -6
All this talk of no compression and limiting when cutting vinyl records and everybody ( well most people ) praise vinyl records for their sound......perhaps its an indication that compression and limiting ( LOUD ) is not something the average person likes . They don't know whats going on but they know the CD doesn't sound as good as their vinyl .
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 2, 2017 16:07:17 GMT -6
That LF tone sounds like a slate tone that was used to identify takes while rewinding. You probably saved them a LOT of money!
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Post by stormymondays on May 2, 2017 16:58:35 GMT -6
Still not sure of the answer to my question though. In mastering for vinyl, is there a standard frequency cutoff ? Or is that left alone, in case there's low note on a 50' pipe organ being reproduced? If there is a frequency cutoff, how is it accomplished? I'm no expert but I did read several times about the RIAA-mandated frequency cut offs. 42 Hz and 12K if memory serves me well?
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 2, 2017 17:13:38 GMT -6
There are no mandated cutoffs. There was an option introduced during the '70s for playback gear to not continue the LF boost all the way from 50 to DC but that was not a required high pass filter.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 2, 2017 17:26:01 GMT -6
That LF tone sounds like a slate tone that was used to identify takes while rewinding. You probably saved them a LOT of money! That's so cool to know, thanks Bob!
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 3, 2017 9:21:46 GMT -6
I learned long ago to never question what somebody says they are hearing. Their opinion of the cause may be nonsense but where there is perceptual smoke, there generally turns out to be some very real measurable fire.
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gavg
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Post by gavg on May 3, 2017 10:22:47 GMT -6
I'd say it totally depends on the type of record you're trying to make. Level/volume control is one thing, but the vibe and intensity of a slamming 1176 (for example) can never be achieved with fader rides. Also, remeber that compressors also have a tonal quality that can serve as a form of eq and many mixers use this to their advantage.
On another point, remember that it's not just compressors that are providing compression. Tape, transformers and valves all give a certain amount of compression and peak rounding and these can be found all over the (traditional) signal chain. Much harder to get away with no compression when you're going from a condenser into a transistor based preamp into a DAW.
Last point... Not all singers are created equal! Some peoples voices just come out of their mouths sounding rich, balanced and controlled. Even FAT! Others sound thin, weedy and erratic. Combine that with no mic technique and good luck using no compression.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 3, 2017 12:27:42 GMT -6
The elephant in the room is that performance on stage has never been more important than today so the idea of propping up mediocre singers with technology is questionable​.
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gavg
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Post by gavg on May 3, 2017 12:59:10 GMT -6
I agree it's questionable, but if our job is to make the most of the material we've got to work with...
That said, even great singers can sound even better with great mixing which usually includes compression. It's all about the end result, I don't think anyone cares how you got there.
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Post by yotonic on May 3, 2017 20:07:26 GMT -6
Bruce Swedien- Michael Jackson - fader rides - Sm7 - Neve - tape
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 4, 2017 12:09:47 GMT -6
The best fader rides are done off the floor looking the singer in the eye while breathing with them.
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Post by EmRR on May 4, 2017 12:57:43 GMT -6
Not unlike the way one rides press conference audio manually for broadcast. Nothing like 8 open mics with a demand for consistent level AND lowest background noise, no compression or expansion allowed.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 4, 2017 18:53:10 GMT -6
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Post by EmRR on May 4, 2017 20:35:43 GMT -6
Too bad pro press conference doesn't fund equipment at that level...I get to use that at corporate gigs, but not pro broadcast. !
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gavg
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Posts: 33
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Post by gavg on May 7, 2017 18:09:36 GMT -6
Bruce Swedien- Michael Jackson - fader rides - Sm7 - Neve - tape
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gavg
Full Member
Posts: 33
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Post by gavg on May 7, 2017 18:11:06 GMT -6
I'm sure I remember reading (or hearing) an interview with Swedien where he said MJ was compressed with an 1176.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 7, 2017 20:33:57 GMT -6
I think most of us used a safety limiter but the bulk of the work was done riding the fader when recording to tape.
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Post by EmRR on May 8, 2017 6:57:41 GMT -6
I had a rockabilly session recently in which I tried to opposite, after considering the sonic requests (vocal dirt/fuzz). No compression on anything BUT vocal. Vocal got an NBC tube AGC that is fairly slow responding for both attack and release. It's meant to live on average at -15 GR with program material, meaning it swims up and down relative to that point, depending on source. Interesting result, constant presence vocal with natural band dynamics behind it. Has an old fuzzy pushed PA quality to it.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 8, 2017 12:26:54 GMT -6
Prior to the late '50s the only limiters used in recording were "safety" limiters on the busses. Singers HAD to know how to work a mike and be really good at it or nobody could hear them at gigs. It requires a combination of gear and skills. Gear alone is meaningless.
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