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Post by johneppstein on Apr 27, 2017 22:03:19 GMT -6
inverse square law cheers Wiz I thought politics wasn't allowed on this forum?
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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 28, 2017 6:13:34 GMT -6
Sometimes, You don't need to use compression if the vocals are not overly dynamic or have any louder parts. I can make the signal sit in the mix without compression, however, IMHO, in most all cases, I think adding compression really helps....It removes those jarring areas that hurt your ears and fight other transients in the mix. I must admit...I am addicted to making fluffy pancakes out of vocals. I just use compression as limiting to protect and even things out. But sometimes that needle will swing 20db easily.
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Post by guitfiddler on Apr 28, 2017 9:44:53 GMT -6
There is a plugin for everything...
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Post by Ward on Apr 28, 2017 11:58:37 GMT -6
There is a plugin for everything... The weight loss one doesn't work. I know. I've tried.
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Post by c0rtland on Apr 28, 2017 12:55:19 GMT -6
Jack white 'lazaretto' on vinyl used no compression on anything. That's the main reason I bought the vinyl, very curious.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 28, 2017 14:44:40 GMT -6
There is a plugin for everything... Which doesn't mean you should use it.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 28, 2017 14:46:04 GMT -6
Jack white 'lazaretto' on vinyl used no compression on anything. That's the main reason I bought the vinyl, very curious. No compression on ANYTHING??? Nor even cutting the vinyl? Really?
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Post by c0rtland on Apr 28, 2017 14:57:49 GMT -6
I knew someone would shout. The recording or mix is what I understand from the release statement.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 28, 2017 16:47:57 GMT -6
I knew someone would shout. The recording or mix is what I understand from the release statement. "What, Never?" "No, Never." "What, Never?" "Well, hardly ever." -Gilbert & Sullivan And I wasn't shouting. I was merely singing mezzo forte.
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Post by popmann on Apr 30, 2017 9:04:53 GMT -6
White's a snake oil salesman. And a good one from his followers. No--that's not an example. Vanessa Fernandez....you need to look to "audiophile label" recording to find uncompressed vocals. But, largely, you know--it's still bullshit to some degree on a functional level--she's working the mic, someone's riding a fader, likely on the way TO tape (read limiter), and at mix time....Sklar played on the record of hers I have--and chose some thumbpy humbucker loaded Gibson bass for what were R&B standards BECAUSE they knew there would be no compressors. He usually plays Jazz basses. I'm sure he also has the stylistically appropriate Precisions....but, those need a compressor which by "audiophile" accounts it's always a negative. If air quotes weren't enough implication, I disagree. I think that both audiophiles AND modern engineers are wrong. Don't electrically alter the electrical dynamics....clip the shit out of everything....two sides to the same "bad sound" coin. IMO. Anyway--Vanessa did one a few years ago of old R&B tunes....then one of maybe all Zeplin? All recorded sans dynamics processing.....you know-other than the analog tape.
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Post by spock on Apr 30, 2017 12:21:17 GMT -6
What are some recordings I can listen to that have no compression on vocals ? I've been trying to practice recording myself and getting a vocal take where I don't need compression . I just wonder if singing in this way you lose some emotion or the performance suffers in some way . regarding mixing...Think in terms of the arrangement, does the vocal need compression? I.e if the track is sparse, maybe the vocal stands out just fine, sans compression. If the track is dense, then compressing to get the vocal to sit up front makes sense.
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Post by donr on Apr 30, 2017 12:48:10 GMT -6
Coincidental to this thread, I was listening this morning, to the Delphonics' "Didn't I Blow Your Mind This Time," from the Tarantino movies soundtrack playlist. I was struck by the non-compressed sound of all of it. 'Way more DR on all the instruments and vocals than usual, even for recordings of that era. Almost too dynamic for ideal listening in a car. And this was from a compilation playlist, no idea how it may have been sourced or re-mastered.
The first time I'd heard the recording not on broadcast radio.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,959
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Post by ericn on Apr 30, 2017 14:36:17 GMT -6
Jack white 'lazaretto' on vinyl used no compression on anything. That's the main reason I bought the vinyl, very curious. No compression on ANYTHING??? Nor even cutting the vinyl? Really? You know there had to be compression or at least limiting on the cutter! That's the thing there is almost always dynamics control somewhere!
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Post by Pueblo Audio on Apr 30, 2017 15:10:33 GMT -6
No compression on ANYTHING??? Nor even cutting the vinyl? Really? You know there had to be compression or at least limiting on the cutter! That's the thing there is almost always dynamics control somewhere! 99% of LP's cut at the studio I toil at have no limiting added at all. I think this may be an interwebs myth that limiting is somehow a necessary procedure for cutting. Not here, anyway. I have engineered hundreds of direct to 2-track records & broadcasts without limiting, as well. But limiting is not necessarily a bad thing. Like cooking, you just have to have the experience to know how much salt and/or pepper to add. The ingredients tell you what's needed.
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Post by Ward on Apr 30, 2017 17:33:29 GMT -6
What are some recordings I can listen to that have no compression on vocals ? I've been trying to practice recording myself and getting a vocal take where I don't need compression . I just wonder if singing in this way you lose some emotion or the performance suffers in some way . regarding mixing...Think in terms of the arrangement, does the vocal need compression? I.e if the track is sparse, maybe the vocal stands out just fine, sans compression. If the track is dense, then compressing to get the vocal to sit up front makes sense. Heretic.
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Post by spock on Apr 30, 2017 18:01:14 GMT -6
regarding mixing...Think in terms of the arrangement, does the vocal need compression? I.e if the track is sparse, maybe the vocal stands out just fine, sans compression. If the track is dense, then compressing to get the vocal to sit up front makes sense. Heretic. ROFL.
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Post by Ward on Apr 30, 2017 19:53:14 GMT -6
I warn you. Fair warning, sir. You will be burned at the stake at daybreak. AND all Redd comps are here mine. Yes, all the RS124s
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Post by guitfiddler on Apr 30, 2017 20:01:22 GMT -6
Redd and Fire!!!!! Woah!!!!!!
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Post by scumbum on Apr 30, 2017 23:12:43 GMT -6
Leave it to spock to bring some Logic to a thread and suddenly the poo poo hits the fan and all hell breaks loose !!!!
I love it !
Live Long And...... Compress Audio.......
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 1, 2017 18:20:46 GMT -6
We didn't even have a limiter in the cutting room at Motown. We had an Ortofon high frequency limiter that we used for LPs but singles were cut at half speed with no limiting at all.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 1, 2017 20:22:39 GMT -6
I was at Plaza Sound recording The Demons album with two Grammy winning world class engineers, and Craig Leon producing. An annoying sound in my cans kept distracting me when I was doing solos. This was after they gave me roll eyes for 20 minutes. After they gave me roll eyes for 20 minutes, I finally went to the control room and said I'll walk out of the session if they can't find out what's wrong. Long story short, somehow an ultra low frequency tone was being printed on tape that would have made a tonearm skip and jump. If I hadn't have caught it, it might have been printed on the 100,000 albums of the first pressing. They couldn't look me in the eye when the tape tech told them what was causing the noise. I learned to trust my ears that day, facing down those cats, I was 21.
That leads me to ask, isn't there some kind of necessary limiting for mastering LP's, to prevent exactly that kind of thing? Or is that an EQ aspect, not limiting.?
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Post by Pueblo Audio on May 1, 2017 20:51:36 GMT -6
I was at Plaza Sound recording The Demons album with two Grammy winning world class engineers, and Craig Leon producing. An annoying sound in my cans kept distracting me when I was doing solos. This was after they gave me roll eyes for 20 minutes. After they gave me roll eyes for 20 minutes, I finally went to the control room and said I'll walk out of the session if they can't find out what's wrong. Long story short, somehow an ultra low frequency tone was being printed on tape that would have made a tonearm skip and jump. If I hadn't have caught it, it might have been printed on the 100,000 albums of the first pressing. They couldn't look me in the eye when the tape tech told them what was causing the noise. I learned to trust my ears that day, facing down those cats, I was 21. That leads me to ask, isn't there some kind of necessary limiting for mastering LP's, to prevent exactly that kind of thing? Or is that an EQ aspect, not limiting.? No, no... na-no-no, NO! Sorry for the outburst, citizen :-). In the Naval Nuclear Program this idea would be labeled a "Gross Conceptual Error". This is like trying to cure an overheating engine by adding a SECOND radiator. Filters and compressors are no substitute for proper, preventative maintanence. It sounds to me like what went down was correct. You, an artist, held the engineers feet to the fire to solve the problem. A tech identified the exact problem and solved it. The lesson is not to put training wheels on gear as some kind of insurance. Rather, we must expect failures of gear along the way and account for the time/expense/expertise for correction. Formula One's are an apex in race car performance and it takes a full time pit crew to keep 'em going.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 1, 2017 21:33:57 GMT -6
Still not sure of the answer to my question though. In mastering for vinyl, is there a standard frequency cutoff ? Or is that left alone, in case there's low note on a 50' pipe organ being reproduced?
If there is a frequency cutoff, how is it accomplished?
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Post by Pueblo Audio on May 1, 2017 21:46:25 GMT -6
Still not sure of the answer to my question though. In mastering for vinyl, is there a standard frequency cutoff ? Or is that left alone, in case there's low note on a 50' pipe organ being reproduced? If there is a frequency cutoff, how is it accomplished? No standard, left alone unless there is something symptomatic in the mix which needs correction. Or if the side is long with land-eating bass energy then some filtering may be needed to fit the program on the side. Or if the bass component has phase issues, or or or... it's a case by case basis solved by the cutting engineer. In the old days, staff Label mastering engineers would put on the training wheels to make their lives easier and skate through their work day. Independents like Bernie and Doug filled that lazy void with attentive excellence.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 1, 2017 22:10:32 GMT -6
Cool, thanks Scott.
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