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Post by Martin John Butler on May 12, 2017 8:02:48 GMT -6
Interesting question Donr. I found the same thing, the XL448 has a push on the low end and is colored, very "studio reverb", in a good way. The 7th Heaven really sounded like a room. That's a little odd because I used the Studio C plate reverb. Maybe I'm so used to the sound of plates on vocals in studios it registered as "real" to me?
Both are good. Jesse, which version did you prefer, Room or VERB?
I think Jesse may be right about big studios still running the big Lexicons. I visited jeremy Gillespie at the world class Barbershop Studios, and they had a big Lex in there for reverb.
What will be interesting is when I begin a new project. Since I got it, I've used the Ocean Way plug on every track to put "the band" in the same room, and it works well. But, maybe the 7th Heaven would make it even more real, so I'll have to look into that.
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Post by mrholmes on May 12, 2017 8:09:53 GMT -6
@martin John Butler
First of all nice song but make the tail on the 7th a bit longer...and use the Studio A preset .... you will love it. I just right prefer the 7thH but I get used to that sound...
What is interesting about the 7 th H is that its not sounding bad even if you put the mix verbs in the end in a big 7 th H room. So I see the 7 th as two big room mics which make sound everything sounding more like a real tracking room
PS: Why cant I tag people anymore???
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Post by Johnkenn on May 12, 2017 8:18:12 GMT -6
Thanks viciousbits, your input and impressions are really appreciated. I had finished mixing the track two weeks ago, so I opened it again, and just muted the Relab on the vocal, and added the SH. Nothing else changed. But.. there's always a possibility a few parts could be ever so slightly different. Sometimes I run 3 or 4 different mixes, and then later on if I decide I liked mix #2, my tracks might have changed a little since I ran that bounce. I should save every bounce as an alternative I guess, but I'd have 50 of them if I did. If I never go back to the original track, it doesn't matter, but if I do, there may be subtle differences. I think the only change that could possibly in this case was one of the two acoustic guitars could be a pinch louder on the SH track, but I can't be certain. I noticed the same thing you did. Somehow changing the reverb on the vocal cleared things up in a way that the other tracks were clearer now. Maybe having the vocal go through the same reverb was crowding the other tracks? I'd be curious what the other guys here think is happening. This is interesting.. I'll experiment some more on Saturday. One annoying thing, if I decide I like this better, I may have to try it for an entire albums worth of finished tracks, ugh.. Cool tune, Martin! I liked the SH better too.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 12, 2017 8:22:10 GMT -6
@martin John Butler PS: Why cant I tag people anymore??? You're not using his username. It's MJB - so @ and then MJB. Some people have changed their display name. You can click on their profile and the UN will be on the upper right. You can also (on desktop) use the little icon of the @ with a person in it.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on May 12, 2017 8:29:52 GMT -6
In Martin's example, the 7th sounded more like a room, and the 480L sounded more like a 'verb. Hard to say what was better for the song. My ears are used to hearing 'verbs on vocals, and liking them. I've been auditing a lot of pop and 'country' tunes lately on streaming services. Can we assume the big label mixes all have Bricasti on them? Most would love a Bricasti, I don't think many have the new equipment budget for an M7!
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 12, 2017 9:27:28 GMT -6
With only a few votes tallied, people are leaning toward the "7th Heaven mix". Uh oh, that means I gotta go back now, make sure the other parts are right and re-run the master.
Over the weekend, I'll see if this works on any other tracks, This one was giving me trouble though, so if the 7th Heaven helped, I'm glad to keep it. It's not so easy convincing yourself to keep working on a track if it doesn't seem outstanding, but you feel you have to complete it regardless. Sometimes those turn out to be favorites later, but sometimes they get cut when it's album time.
I have one more track to complete, and then I'll have an album to master. After that, I want to make a fresh start and apply all I've learned here over the last few years and begin a new album project. I plan to try recording at 96k sample rate, and I will try using the 7th Heaven as the main reverb instead of the XL480. I think it's cleaner and a little more real, at least it seemed that way in the short time I gave it a test run.
I plan to be more careful with mic placement on every track I do in the future. Typically, by the time I get everything set up to record, I just put the mic in front of me, staying close enough to reach my desk, and don't take time walking the room to see where the sound is best.
I don't have one, but an iPad with Logic remote would help a lot I suppose.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 12, 2017 10:40:00 GMT -6
I have to run to work now, but i put the track up and did a few minor tweaks. Balanced acoustics a little better, changed the roll off to let a little more low frequency pass. Raised the Seventh heaven .6 db, i thought it needed a little more, brought the drums up .2db and clicked the gain on the UAD LA2 plug on the vocal the slightest amount possible higher, then added .5 DB more on the last compressor on the 2 bus. I kept the Sun C setting on the 7th Heaven.
How's the track and the 7th Heaven sound now? Vocal too loud, or is it better?
https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/heaven-knows-7th-h
(Realgear All Stars Anton Evans was on bass here, Mark Rabuck on piano).
* mrholmes, I only have the basic version right now, so I don't have access to all the parameters the pro version has.
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Post by mrholmes on May 12, 2017 16:49:40 GMT -6
* mrholmes, I only have the basic version right now, so I don't have access to all the parameters the pro version has. You know that you can alter the length of each reverb in the basic version too? And if you put some EQ and frequency depended stereo widening on the on the output - you pretty much have something similar to the pro version. I think the Studio A preset sounds a lot like a real room - good for a starting point it even sounds great if you use too much of it...
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