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Post by scumbum on Mar 14, 2017 11:02:52 GMT -6
Listening to the Warbler MKID vs U87 , not too impressed . It doesn't sound bad but it sounds kinda hard and I like the U87 quite a bit more .
I think that Samson mic could beat the Warbler in a shoot out .
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Post by aamicrophones on Mar 14, 2017 15:16:05 GMT -6
$99 for a SC450 is a great price. It's an MXL2001 circuit and body plus the same basic circuit and body that we use in our CM47fet which is a 2 stage class "A" transformer coupled circuit.
In our CM47fet we have added an OMNI option and upgraded the audio capacitor to tantalum's which Neumann uses in the U87 and AKG in the 414eb. Now, our CM47fet is $295 but it comes with a HD shock-mount and the 2 pattern option plus lots of QC.
Its much cheaper to build a CARD only microphone as you only need a single sided capsule and no pattern switch. OMNI and FIG 8 require a dual diaphragm capsule with a matching front and rear response.
The circuit is very similar to the original C414 which has 8-14db more headroom than a U87. The SC450 uses a K67 type capsule and they tame the typical K67's 8db rise at 12khz with a U87 de-emphasis circuit. This is R3 and C3 in parallel placed in a feedback loop to reduce the natural rise of the K67/k87 type capsule. If the microphone is too bright or too dark you can trim it by changing C3.
We also change C8 from a 4.7ufd to a 22ufd tantalum capacitor to improve the low frequency response important if you are using it for kick of bass amps. The MXL 2001 sold for $195.
I have put our CM47fet up against a U87 in Cardiod and it fairs really well. Its also a great microphone on saxophone, harmonica, kick drum and instrument amps as it can take 14db more level than a U87.
The circuit uses the same polarization and capsule implementation as a U87 in Cardiod. The capsule is polarized with 37v like the original U87 and not 60v like the U87ai.
Remember, there is less than $20 worth of electronic components in a U87 not counting the capsule, body & transformer.
The reason they can build these "2001" bodies for such an affordable price is there at least 10 microphone Companies that use this body including us. So, the bodies are being made upwards of 5000 at a time which reduces the price.
We only buy 200 of these bodies at one time. However, they are machining at least 3000 at a time and often 5000.
I visited the metalwork factory in the outskirts of Shanghai about 3 years ago and was amazed to see in the labelling room samples of about 80% of the worlds microphone bodies.
Quality control is really the big issue. We pay Shanghai $2 extra per microphone for them to run a frequency response in the capsule room of each or our capsules and make sure there are no finger prints or debris left on the diaphragms.
Some folks, will use these bodies but use 3 micron skinned capsules and not 6 micron. I believe T bone uses 6 micron skinned capsule but I have not confirmed this.
We still find the odd capsule with a wrinkle or one that fails our capsule stress test or its capacitance is not correct. However, we have been constantly giving Shanghai feedback over the last 10 year and the quality is getting better.
However, we still get problems. Just last week I had 3 capsules that tested correctly and looked perfect. However, when we mounted them onto the saddle the diaphragm wrinkled and we had to throw it into the "To Be Re-skinned box".
The bottom line is that the odds are getting better for purchasing a low budget microphone that will garnish great results. You do have to buy the T-bone from Europe so its a bitch if you have to return it because there is a fault.
Cheers, Dave aamicrophones,.com
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 14, 2017 15:16:27 GMT -6
Listening to the Warbler MKID vs U87 , not too impressed . It doesn't sound bad but it sounds kinda hard and I like the U87 quite a bit more . I think that Samson mic could beat the Warbler in a shoot out . I do not have a Warbler, all I can say it sounds good compared to my Gefell and Neumanns. Maybe not as detailed a tendency to darkness. I was surprised that it has an extremely low proximity effect.
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Post by ragan on Mar 14, 2017 15:19:01 GMT -6
Listening to the Warbler MKID vs U87 , not too impressed . It doesn't sound bad but it sounds kinda hard and I like the U87 quite a bit more . I think that Samson mic could beat the Warbler in a shoot out . Well there you go. Subjective stuff, this audio business. I prefer the U87 too, just not by a landslide.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 16:07:08 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 14, 2017 16:47:36 GMT -6
Did you guys give a listen to the track at the link I posted? The vocal and the cello were done with the $350 Cascade Vin-Jet. I think it tops every cheap mic I've heard. It's track 3. I'm curious to hear your impressions. I think it's far better than any "cheap" mic example I've heard yet. dustywright.bandcamp.com/album/caterwauling-towards-the-light
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 16:52:14 GMT -6
Those cheap mics are the bomb dot com . . . snap these up, fast! Wot dat?
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 14, 2017 16:52:54 GMT -6
Did you guys give a listen to the track at the link I posted? The vocal and the cello were done with the $350 Cascade Vin-Jet. I think it tops every cheap mic I've heard. It's track 3. I'm curious to hear your impressions. I think it's far better than any "cheap" mic example I've heard yet. dustywright.bandcamp.com/album/caterwauling-towards-the-lightHad no time to do it yet, but on the sofa I checked the mic you name.... this is an active ribbon mic?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 16:53:57 GMT -6
Did you guys give a listen to the track at the link I posted? The vocal and the cello were done with the $350 Cascade Vin-Jet. I think it tops every cheap mic I've heard. It's track 3. I'm curious to hear your impressions. I think it's far better than any "cheap" mic example I've heard yet. dustywright.bandcamp.com/album/caterwauling-towards-the-lightSounds good to me Martin. That's the trouble - they all sound good . Getting them home is the only way to find out I s'pose.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 14, 2017 17:06:22 GMT -6
Yes, it's a ribbon mic. I just think there are so many decent choices when it comes to finding really useful mics that aren't too expensive, that it's easy to overlook some of the real gems.
The Vin-Jet has none of the typical issues we often encounter with Chinese capsules, no sibilance at all, takes EQ nicely, certainly a bit vintage sounding, but not too much so.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 14, 2017 17:10:11 GMT -6
I only got a chance to listen to this mic for a few minutes in the middle of the AES show, but was honestly impressed with what I could hear. I asked the MXL rep to let me try one, but he didn't get back to me. I'd still like to have a listen.. www.mxlmics.com/microphones/studio/CR89/Attachments:
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Post by ragan on Mar 14, 2017 17:10:36 GMT -6
Yes, it's a ribbon mic. I just think there are so many decent choices when it comes to finding really useful mics that aren't too expensive, that it's easy to overlook some of the real gems. The Vin-Jet has none of the typical issues we often encounter with Chinese capsules, no sibilance at all, takes EQ nicely, certainly a bit vintage sounding, but not too much so. I had a Vin Jet and Victor. I didn't love them but they were cool for some things. I'd like to grab a pair of Vin Jets again sometime and give em another go. Or probably smarter would be to grab some of the cheaper brands of that same mic, Apex or Nady or whatever, and mod them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 17:12:29 GMT -6
Beautiful cello btw. I got a great ribbon mic from a guy who builds them in the UK (his main business is making and supplying mic transformers). Like you say, they are out there.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 14, 2017 17:12:49 GMT -6
I think in my friend's case, it was just a good fit. I can understand if it's not quite the real deal for some voices. I preferred my Blackspade by a mile, but it cost 2k.
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Post by Vincent R. on Mar 14, 2017 17:56:05 GMT -6
I have a pair of Studio Projects C4s that I use to capture my speaking voice in my YouTube videos as well as use as a room mic pair in Omni. I also have two AT3525s. I recorded my first demo album years ago with one. It was my first studio experience. So I picked up one, then another. It's a fun mic, a hair bright, but not harsh. Being a medium diaphragm they have a slightly beefier sound than the cheap SDCs, and I tend to use them where I've put a pair of SDCs.
I had a few other cheap mics around for a while; blue baby bottle, Studio Projects C3, Studio Projects C1. Eventually I sold them and picked up the Slate VMS. Now I have a mic I use with more frequency.
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Post by scumbum on Mar 14, 2017 20:41:12 GMT -6
Listening to the Warbler MKID vs U87 , not too impressed . It doesn't sound bad but it sounds kinda hard and I like the U87 quite a bit more . I think that Samson mic could beat the Warbler in a shoot out . Well there you go. Subjective stuff, this audio business. I prefer the U87 too, just not by a landslide. It wasn't a landslide . I bet if I didn't hear it side by side against a Vintage U87 I'd be much more impressed . I was expecting it to be hard to hear a difference . Were both vocal tracks level matched ? The U87 sounds more 3-D . The price too is kind of a problem . At the $380 price , theres a LOT of good mics . If the Warbler was $199 , it would be great . Great voice and singing ! Your voice into that U87 is like a time warp back to the 70's . You could pull off a great classic rock album .
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Post by scumbum on Mar 14, 2017 21:02:42 GMT -6
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Post by scumbum on Mar 14, 2017 21:12:23 GMT -6
Listening to the Warbler MKID vs U87 , not too impressed . It doesn't sound bad but it sounds kinda hard and I like the U87 quite a bit more . I think that Samson mic could beat the Warbler in a shoot out . Well there you go. Subjective stuff, this audio business. I prefer the U87 too, just not by a landslide. So on ebay the Warbler MKID is $389 . Just got an email from 3U audio and I can buy a Warbler MKII for US$270 free shipping direct from them . Its tempting because you never really know how a mic will work for you until you try it yourself .
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 14, 2017 22:07:52 GMT -6
Be careful scumbum, some of the Vin-Jets have Lundahl transformers, and the less expensive ones don't.
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Post by ragan on Mar 14, 2017 23:01:34 GMT -6
Well there you go. Subjective stuff, this audio business. I prefer the U87 too, just not by a landslide. It wasn't a landslide . I bet if I didn't hear it side by side against a Vintage U87 I'd be much more impressed . I was expecting it to be hard to hear a difference . Were both vocal tracks level matched ? The U87 sounds more 3-D . The price too is kind of a problem . At the $380 price , theres a LOT of good mics . If the Warbler was $199 , it would be great . Great voice and singing ! Your voice into that U87 is like a time warp back to the 70's . You could pull off a great classic rock album . Thanks. I like 67s even more, which is why I got the MaxMod. Re: Warblers, its $270 for cardioid only and $349 for the multipattern. Both include shipping. You gotta email the guy himself for those prices. It's higher through eBay because of the fees. I don't know what to tell you as to whether you'd dig one. I think they're really solid mics myself but those clips on my SoundCloud are pretty representative I think, so if you don't like the sound of those, maybe look elsewhere? Edit: I see you already emailed Guosheng.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 15, 2017 1:23:15 GMT -6
If you really want cheap, just buy a Share SM58. Use it with a good preamp and you'll be surprised, even for a led vocal. I don't know why so many people use SM57's for close miking guitar cabinets, I think the 58 gives a bigger, more alive sound. Oy, gevalt! In case you're not aware of it, the SM57 and SM58 are the SAME MIC with the exception of the pop filter on the 58.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 15, 2017 5:25:26 GMT -6
Yes, it's a ribbon mic. I just think there are so many decent choices when it comes to finding really useful mics that aren't too expensive, that it's easy to overlook some of the real gems. The Vin-Jet has none of the typical issues we often encounter with Chinese capsules, no sibilance at all, takes EQ nicely, certainly a bit vintage sounding, but not too much so. I had a Vin Jet and Victor. I didn't love them but they were cool for some things. I'd like to grab a pair of Vin Jets again sometime and give em another go. Or probably smarter would be to grab some of the cheaper brands of that same mic, Apex or Nady or whatever, and mod them. Having worked for John Nady in the past I would shun anything and everything associated with his name.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 15, 2017 7:49:35 GMT -6
John, I knew they were nearly identical, but in my experience, they don't sound exactly the same. I figured that some small aspect makes them a little different, and for whatever reason, I've been happy with the 58 for miking cabinets. I don't have a 57 at the moment, so my memory could be off too. Have you tried them side by side and found them to sound exactly the same?
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Post by EmRR on Mar 15, 2017 9:18:47 GMT -6
the grill IS what makes them sound different.
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Post by ragan on Mar 15, 2017 9:23:02 GMT -6
I had a Vin Jet and Victor. I didn't love them but they were cool for some things. I'd like to grab a pair of Vin Jets again sometime and give em another go. Or probably smarter would be to grab some of the cheaper brands of that same mic, Apex or Nady or whatever, and mod them. Having worked for John Nady in the past I would shun anything and everything associated with his name. Well I'm just talking about the rebranded OEM stuff that they sell so the "name" doesn't much matter. If I'm gonna mod a Chinese ribbon mic I'd rather get the cheapest one, since they're rolling off the same factory lines anyway.
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