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Post by M57 on Feb 21, 2017 5:36:45 GMT -6
There's no reason that making high quality art should be a dream. That's the point of the plug-ins/technology/home studios, etc. (read: svart's lower industry standards). But let's not fool ourselves. There will always be a market for the high end. Movies, major labels, etc. Those studios will always be there for the super-stars. I don't see how it's any different from when I and many others were recording to a tascam 4-track cassette recorder in the early 80's. There were hundreds of great singers back then, and guess what? You don't know about them because they had ZERO opportunities. While you might argue that the percentage of musicians with access to high-end studios should theoretically be the same, I think the difference might be that the percentage of the population that think of themselves as "musicians" is much higher - Simply because technology enables them. And that's a good thing.
Here's a challenge. Honestly, I have no idea what the answer is, but I'm willing to bet that the quality of the top 10 recordings in most any genre is just as good if not better than those of 30 years ago.
As for the race to the bottom. That's simply market forces at work. Home and private studios are capable of pumping out recordings, the quality of which approaches those of the big houses, and it's only getting better. My DAW is just as good as theirs. Hell, I'm a hobbyist and I've got a rack full of Warm Audio, a treated room, more than a couple thousand invested in mics and I'm getting pretty happy with my plugs and slate bundles and the prospect of being able to have my music mastered for peanuts - all while I'm watching the price of that high-end stuff fall (right into my hands). Is there a shift away from "everything" being high-end? Absolutely. And with that shift comes true artistic freedom for those who would otherwise never have had the opportunity to create. I'm even willing to debate "cost" where the quality is concerned. I can spend months working on a song if I want to. Live with a take for weeks, then decide to change it - in the middle of the night in my pajamas. Remix and tweak until my ears fall off. The quality of my recording may be less than first class, but the quality of my performances eclipse anything I could do in a major studio, even with a hefty bank-roll. Wouldn't we all would agree that where the chain is concerned, the music comes first? You have to factor that into the calculus of "quality."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 7:05:19 GMT -6
....plus it's fun!
Been playing a bit more. It will clip if put through a different sample rate - so lesson learnt there, but at 44.1 no digital overs anywhere.
Anyone got Voxengo Elephant? I got real close to the Aria master just using this (max punch +6db setting then tweaking volume). A bit of nice compression / eq and it would be really close I think.
Then tried the DBX Quantum. I'm still getting my head around this thing, but got a nice sound using the Aria as a reference. If nothing else, it would be worth a few dollars to me just to get a benchmark of a decent master so I can learn to use the tools I've got.
But all that aside, the Aria master's are awesome for the money.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 21, 2017 7:10:15 GMT -6
Hey svart, isn't this a bit hypocritical. Not trying to diminish your work or studio, all this can apply to everything I do too, FWIW. Isn't a band recording in your room a compromise? Your space is in a basement, not a world class ground up facility. Your room is the exact reason that the bigger places are shattering. You can undercut their prices and get 90% 'good enough' for the bands that you work with. You mention how you've had to slash prices to compete with these 'bedroom' studios, but don't like it when the high end studio undercuts you. I honestly thing what this guy is doing is genius. Probably has seen his work decrease little by little over the years because everyone and their brother offers "mastering" services. What business do you or I have offering Mastering? I have a few nice mastering grade processors and can do a reasonable job, but don't have a world class room or $100k monitoring setup. This dude found a way to take back his mastering work from guys like us. Really good business plan that I applaud.
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Post by colinleonard on Feb 21, 2017 7:48:59 GMT -6
Hey svart, isn't this a bit hypocritical. Not trying to diminish your work or studio, all this can apply to everything I do too, FWIW. Isn't a band recording in your room a compromise? Your space is in a basement, not a world class ground up facility. Your room is the exact reason that the bigger places are shattering. You can undercut their prices and get 90% 'good enough' for the bands that you work with. You mention how you've had to slash prices to compete with these 'bedroom' studios, but don't like it when the high end studio undercuts you. I honestly thing what this guy is doing is genius. Probably has seen his work decrease little by little over the years because everyone and their brother offers "mastering" services. What business do you or I have offering Mastering? I have a few nice mastering grade processors and can do a reasonable job, but don't have a world class room or $100k monitoring setup. This dude found a way to take back his mastering work from guys like us. Really good business plan that I applaud. I think this is a really good point although SING Mastering is so busy I'm having a hard time finding time for Aria. I'm literally three weeks behind at SING. My assistant has been a huge help with Aria daily maintenance. I didn't build it because I was slow at SING. I built it because I like to innovate. Soon we will have a development (software) team on board full time so things will improve and become more streamlined. One of the first things to change will be adding multiple file type downloads to each order. I'm glad you guys are having fun and thanks for your input!
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Post by nobtwiddler on Feb 21, 2017 7:56:48 GMT -6
I totally agree with Svarts earlier post.
"Your mixes are good but your rates are too much. For that money I can go buy my own gear and do it myself." or "Why would I pay those rates when I can get my brother's friend to do it for free?".
I hear this same story from artists & bands I work with at least once a week. At this point, I don't argue, I tell them to go to their brothers house and record for free!
It's a total dumbing down of the industry over the last few years! Doesn't anybody else see it?
Sad part is, I like Svart have been hit really hard, and not sure what else to do at this point.
I really love recording, and working with musicians. The music is what keeps me alive. There's just less & less of it each year.
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Post by M57 on Feb 21, 2017 8:23:56 GMT -6
Quick (stupid) question for both Coiin and everybody. When you submit to Aria, what should or shouldn't be on your 2-buss? Do (should) you leave it naked? If you compress, Aria will add additional compression, right? But if you don't compress, will Aria compress even more? If so, wouldn't you be better off getting it as close to what you can (to a mastered sound), then letting aria do it's job more subtly? What about rolling off the lows? Does aria do any of that, or is it strictly just analyzing across the board and shooting things out? How does Aria know where you are rolling off? I'm definitely going to try it out, but @ $20 a pop, I'd prefer to get it right the first or second time.
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Post by colinleonard on Feb 21, 2017 8:28:25 GMT -6
I totally agree with Svarts earlier post. "Your mixes are good but your rates are too much. For that money I can go buy my own gear and do it myself." or "Why would I pay those rates when I can get my brother's friend to do it for free?". I hear this same story from artists & bands I work with at least once a week. At this point, I don't argue, I tell them to go to their brothers house and record for free! It's a total dumbing down of the industry over the last few years! Doesn't anybody else see it? Sad part is, I like Svart have been hit really hard, and not sure what else to do at this point. I really love recording, and working with musicians. The music is what keeps me alive. There's just less & less of it each year. Where are you located?
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Post by colinleonard on Feb 21, 2017 8:40:01 GMT -6
Quick (stupid) question for both Coiin and everybody. When you submit to Aria, what should or shouldn't be on your 2-buss? Do (should) you leave it naked? If you compress, Aria will add additional compression, right? But if you don't compress, will Aria compress even more? If so, wouldn't you be better off getting it as close to what you can (to a mastered sound), then letting aria do it's job more subtly? What about rolling off the lows? Does aria do any of that, or is it strictly just analyzing across the board and shooting things out? How does Aria know where you are rolling off? I'm definitely going to try it out, but @ $20 a pop, I'd prefer to get it right the first or second time. I think getting your mix the closest to how you want it is best before mastering. Aria is pretty gentle so don't worry about the compression. Email us on the site and we will give you a coupon to try it.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 21, 2017 10:02:55 GMT -6
This is actually a very deep question, with no simple answers. Both sides have valid issues. I'm a good example of the artistic force trying to adjust to the new digital environment. Many of the plug-in proponents don't have much studio experience. I used to work in legendary studios often for the first twenty years of my career. So my references are top of the line. Simultaneously, in the late 80's, I put together my own home studio to handle the smaller jobs I got.
So I had my hand on gear all day long. Still, I was a musician/writer first, engineering my own smaller budget commercials, but I had to maintain a broadcast quality level, or I'd lose work. I used the big studios for big budget jobs. I was an early adopter when people began to be able to afford a decent home recording system.
All the gear I had then is sought after "vintage" now, so I'm very familiar with much of the gear so many companies are cloning or emulating in plug-ins. Basically, I know good when I hear it. My definition of good? Of course that's subjective, but I think I have a unique perspective to make judgements regarding quality of recordings done in less than ideal situations.
Both Svart and Colin make great points. If I had to bottom line my issues with my recording at home it would come down to this, it just isn't as good as it would be if I had a week in a great studio. Most of my reference albums, like Lyle Lovette's "Road to Ensenada", Mark Knopfler's "Sailing to Philadelphia" were done at top of the line studios, with the best producers and engineers.
When I did my first official major label album, it was done in one of the finest studios in the world, when I did my first solo album, it was done in a small studio with OK basic gear, and an OK room. Doing my song demos now, I'm in the worst recording environment you can imagine, trying to sound like the best studios.
The benchmark recordings of mine, and of most of the members here, I suspect were done with a real budget. So this is a classic case of you got what you paid for.
Now, looking at the bigger picture, more musicians than ever can produce reasonably good recordings at home now. So, studios at every level are scrambling. This creates the cost vs. benefit argument regarding quality level we've been discussing. Wiz's recording is a great example. It's done beautifully by a really talented artist, yet I too can imagine him with a budget and a good engineer/producer, and I'd bet dollars to dimes it would be better overall. The problem is, that ain't gonna happen. After you reach a certain age, it's unlikely even a great singer/songwriter or band will be sought after by record companies.
So, that leaves us where we are now. Artists need to do their work, and the opportunity to use today's technologies offers us a chance to get closer to our ideal recording sound than ever before on a low budget. So, it's a good thing for those of us who couldn't afford to do it otherwise, but I also agree with Svart, that it won't hold up to the best recordings, even if it's very well done, like Wiz.
It's affected me financially too. I got $300 for a job recently that used to pay $4,000. So it's not only mastering engineers being affected, it's all of us.
So, it is what it is, and we have to deal with it. I don't think blaming any individual for doing what they can within the circumstances given helps in any way. I plan to use Aria, and I'm glad and impressed that I have this option. If I make enough money from my current recordings to afford a true mastering engineer, I will do so. So the mastering engineers I know and like, jcoutou, Alan Douches, Greg Calbi, aren't losing any money in my case, because I can't afford even their very reasonable prices right now.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 21, 2017 10:33:49 GMT -6
Couple of things. This gets down to "the value of music as a commodity." Right now, it is nearly worthless without a major label marketing budget. Streaming is the real culprit, extorting the business through an 80 year old loophole - which has been upheld by our government. (What the fuck is the government doing with their hands in this) Right now, the government is protecting the WRONG people. They are protecting Google, Spotify, Pandora etc over songwriters, artists, labels and publishers. Now you tell me which set of those are the monopolies. Until this gets corrected, the music industry will be forced to eat itself, because music has little to no value.
Svart, Being a libertarian, surprised to hear you espouse these views.
As for Aria, I think it's a service that absolutely serves a purpose. Being a songwriter, I never pay for professional mastering for my demos. No point in it. I just do it myself. Aria could be a time saver for me if it can help. $19? Sure, I'll pay for that - even if all it's doing is getting my tracks louder through the use of analog gear (which I'm not spending $10k for). If I'm making a record for myself or someone else, I'll absolutely pay a real mastering engineer - they're worth their weight in gold.)
It ALL starts with the song. When that is being devalued, it's a chain reaction down our entire food chain.
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Post by M57 on Feb 21, 2017 10:44:07 GMT -6
Maybe, but I posit that the 95% is based on acceptance of what is perceived as "modern quality", aka, the MP3. If we compared to peak audiophile quality, we're more like 40%. However, to say that, is to admit that most of us will never be able to afford to get there because the industry just doesn't support the artists and the artists cannot support spending money for peak quality anymore. Yeah - it's all relative.. If by artist you mean "touring" musician then sure, you're probably right. But that's top echelon and I know nothing about the elite. For the "working" musician - local bands, Cover, Tribute, GB, etc., modern "inferior" quality eclipses anything they could have afforded to record 30 years ago. BTW, even the cheapest of DAWs records at 44.1 or better. So the option to create better than MP3s is there. It's the consumer who is satisfied with "modern quality," which, BTW is still better than vinyl. >>tucks tail between legs and waits for incoming<< Honestly, I'm not trolling - just stating my opinion. Don't get me wrong, there are things about vinyl I like.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 21, 2017 12:46:38 GMT -6
I think John hit the nail on the head. Simple government protection of copyrighted material would be easy. Those poor widdle companies like Spotify would actually have to pay a little for what they're essentially stealing for free now.
M57, this is meant for another thread, but NOTHING beats vinyl. Not yet anyway :-)
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Post by ChaseUTB on Feb 21, 2017 13:07:26 GMT -6
Aria throws a loop for people like me trying to gain clientele and get a foot in. So it makes me work harder with what I have, I don't mind a challenge, my life had been nothing close to easy. I am trying to charge $50 for a Master, this includes : - the full resolution Wav. 24 bit 96khz - CD with properly dithered 16 bit and properly SRC'd 44.1 kHz sample rate - properly encoded MFiT ( free of clipping at any rate or conversion ) ( all major label MFiT's I playback clip regardless of sample rate) - metadata - choice of MP3 resolution for Streaming ( I suggest 128 kbp/s, most sites playback at this bit rate ) which is then properly encoded ( most don't know about this ) - 3 revisions
I do have technology to thank because we all know how much tape and console cost and if it weren't for daws and computers I could not afford to be making, producing, mixing , or mastering music because I can't afford in today's $ a $10,000 prism mastering console, $10-20k room, 10-20k monitors, 10-30k conversion etc. This thread has been a great read and interesting hearing both perspectives. Glad we can agree to disagree at RGO and be civil.
We all love music here let's keep that first.... $ brings out the bs 😂
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Post by wiz on Feb 21, 2017 15:19:24 GMT -6
A point can be made from many points in this industry towards others.
If you build mics or gear from kits... are you taking money from gear manufacturers..?
If you repair your own gear.... are you doing techs out of business?
If you release music onto the internet for free..... are you contributing to the demise of the industry?
If you use anyone for anything in any room but the top, are you denigrating the industry?
If you design and build gear/code plug ins...and base it on the iconic gear of the past.... are you not using someone elses reputation and history to try and leverage your own?
I would suggest respectfully that we be careful about being in a glass house and throwing verbal stone.... .and applying morals/ethics that could immediately be levelled back against us.
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 21, 2017 17:08:29 GMT -6
It's called capitalism. Right now, demand is low because supply is both abundant and recreating itself. Robots are going to replace a lot of us in the near future. Hell, I'm really having to reevaluate my career too. Yes, after 15 years of doing this, it's depressing that it seems to be ending, but I need to find a way to get ahead of the curve somehow. There's less chance of becoming a songwriter with multiple hits for 10 years than being in the NBA or NFL. I've been holding on for the last 6 years, draws getting smaller and smaller, people caring less and less, meanwhile writing better than I ever have. And for what? So if I were to get extremely lucky and have a No.1 record that pays $250k. I get to pay 40% back to the government and then pray that it happens again in the next few years. Which seems less and less likely. I'm afraid that songwriters are the blacksmiths of the 21st century.
So, since I'm now relegated to making my own demos, I appreciate the fact that there's an inexpensive option out there.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 21, 2017 17:12:09 GMT -6
True indeed.
We're all doing the best we can in confusing times. The paradigm's been broken, but nothing that works well has replaced it yet. I think John is right about streaming, and until the government can see the benefits to everyone that reasonable royalty protection for copyright owners would be, we're all struggling with workarounds.
I've decided I'm going to re-mix a track a day, until I finish enough tracks for an album, and then I'll try Aria when they're done. Some tracks need only some cleaning up, some a complete revisit, but I'm excited about finishing my songs and moving on. I'm looking forward to checking Aria out..
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Post by svart on Feb 21, 2017 19:16:11 GMT -6
Hey svart , isn't this a bit hypocritical. Not trying to diminish your work or studio, all this can apply to everything I do too, FWIW. Isn't a band recording in your room a compromise? Your space is in a basement, not a world class ground up facility. Your room is the exact reason that the bigger places are shattering. You can undercut their prices and get 90% 'good enough' for the bands that you work with. You mention how you've had to slash prices to compete with these 'bedroom' studios, but don't like it when the high end studio undercuts you. I honestly thing what this guy is doing is genius. Probably has seen his work decrease little by little over the years because everyone and their brother offers "mastering" services. What business do you or I have offering Mastering? I have a few nice mastering grade processors and can do a reasonable job, but don't have a world class room or $100k monitoring setup. This dude found a way to take back his mastering work from guys like us. Really good business plan that I applaud. My intentions have always been to gain more clients and grow into a larger space, but the market just doesn't support this, and I've been stuck in my "basement" instead of being able to fulfill my desires of being the world class facility. Yeah it's a "basement", but the rooms were properly acoustically planned, designed, and purpose built for the studio, no different than building out a studio in any space. It cost me thousands just for the rooms and treatments. I even talked to a number of folks over the years about taking side jobs in the bigger studios around town, but the leads dried up as the market dried up, and a couple of the larger studios I had possible work in closed down.. And again, stuck in my "basement".
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Post by svart on Feb 21, 2017 19:19:17 GMT -6
A point can be made from many points in this industry towards others. If you build mics or gear from kits... are you taking money from gear manufacturers..? If you repair your own gear.... are you doing techs out of business? If you release music onto the internet for free..... are you contributing to the demise of the industry? If you use anyone for anything in any room but the top, are you denigrating the industry? If you design and build gear/code plug ins...and base it on the iconic gear of the past.... are you not using someone elses reputation and history to try and leverage your own? I would suggest respectfully that we be careful about being in a glass house and throwing verbal stone.... .and applying morals/ethics that could immediately be levelled back against us. Cheers Wiz 1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Yes. Lets not kid ourselves about what is happening. Just because we don't like the answers, doesn't mean they aren't true.
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Post by M57 on Feb 21, 2017 19:43:29 GMT -6
1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Yes. Lets not kid ourselves about what is happening. Just because we don't like the answers, doesn't mean they aren't true. Of course, they are true to some degree, but there's a slippery slope here.. If you cook your own meals, are you taking money from McDonalds? If you brush your teeth, are you taking away money from dentists? Just because it's true doesn't mean it's a good thing. Not to get political, but it's thinking like this that ends up creating subsidies for farmers to grow crops that no one buys, or trade barriers and tariffs in order to keep manufacturing jobs that should, in a global market economy, simply be somewhere else.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 21, 2017 19:47:38 GMT -6
Hey svart , isn't this a bit hypocritical. Not trying to diminish your work or studio, all this can apply to everything I do too, FWIW. Isn't a band recording in your room a compromise? Your space is in a basement, not a world class ground up facility. Your room is the exact reason that the bigger places are shattering. You can undercut their prices and get 90% 'good enough' for the bands that you work with. You mention how you've had to slash prices to compete with these 'bedroom' studios, but don't like it when the high end studio undercuts you. I honestly thing what this guy is doing is genius. Probably has seen his work decrease little by little over the years because everyone and their brother offers "mastering" services. What business do you or I have offering Mastering? I have a few nice mastering grade processors and can do a reasonable job, but don't have a world class room or $100k monitoring setup. This dude found a way to take back his mastering work from guys like us. Really good business plan that I applaud. My intentions have always been to gain more clients and grow into a larger space, but the market just doesn't support this, and I've been stuck in my "basement" instead of being able to fulfill my desires of being the world class facility. Yeah it's a "basement", but the rooms were properly acoustically planned, designed, and purpose built for the studio, no different than building out a studio in any space. It cost me thousands just for the rooms and treatments. I even talked to a number of folks over the years about taking side jobs in the bigger studios around town, but the leads dried up as the market dried up, and a couple of the larger studios I had possible work in closed down.. And again, stuck in my "basement". Just to stay clear, I'm not trying to take jabs at you or anything. I'm in a very similar situation. Mixing in a room in my house, renting out other studios to track in, dealing with clients that don't want to pay my rates, all the same stuff. I just think the guy with the guitar center special setup has the same goals as us, and doesn't want to be at the bottom rung hanging $50/song for full productions. If an artist would rather work with that guy, that's his prerogative. I'll do the best work that I can, on the gigs I get, and hope my track record keeps me working.
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Post by svart on Feb 21, 2017 19:49:24 GMT -6
Couple of things. This gets down to "the value of music as a commodity." Right now, it is nearly worthless without a major label marketing budget. Streaming is the real culprit, extorting the business through an 80 year old loophole - which has been upheld by our government. (What the fuck is the government doing with their hands in this) Right now, the government is protecting the WRONG people. They are protecting Google, Spotify, Pandora etc over songwriters, artists, labels and publishers. Now you tell me which set of those are the monopolies. Until this gets corrected, the music industry will be forced to eat itself, because music has little to no value. Svart, Being a libertarian, surprised to hear you espouse these views. As for Aria, I think it's a service that absolutely serves a purpose. Being a songwriter, I never pay for professional mastering for my demos. No point in it. I just do it myself. Aria could be a time saver for me if it can help. $19? Sure, I'll pay for that - even if all it's doing is getting my tracks louder through the use of analog gear (which I'm not spending $10k for). If I'm making a record for myself or someone else, I'll absolutely pay a real mastering engineer - they're worth their weight in gold.) It ALL starts with the song. When that is being devalued, it's a chain reaction down our entire food chain. Well, I'm looking down at the whole picture. Artists traded their power for fame when they signed contracts that gave record companies total control over their music. Now they have no power in the industry at all, which is apparent by the way the top echelons control all of the media delivery services, keeping the artist poor, while reaping the benefits of their work. That's not capitalism, or free-market. That's monopolies that have grown from the ignorance of those who've been programmed to believe in the system. The first thing to do is to boycott the industry and destroy it by depriving it of the money it needs to survive. The problem is that people as a whole just don't care. Artists continue to hang onto the dream of fame and stardom (read: vindication of their art), or the viewers at home watching a show continue to watch (read: living vicariously through their favorite), or simply those consumers who just want cheap tunes to bob their head to as they listen mindlessly at work while typing their reports. The industry then promotes itself through the "grammys" and other awards shows where they simply pat themselves on the back and parade "stars" around to keep people believing in the "dream" that is only possible through the blessing of The Industry. I'm trying my best to do my part by not using services that aim to continue to dole out someone's hard work as commodity. I don't use Itunes or any of the streaming services. I don't have any subscriptions to anything like that. I still buy CD's of bands I like. I buy all my software in legit ways, and I try to be fair and balanced with every artist I work with, and promote their work by steering folks to the pay-for links of their work if the band has them to offer. I also boycott all automated checkout machines at stores, and will ask the manager to have a human check me out if there isn't one already available.. That's what I believe in, that I have the power to do something, even if it's small and won't make a huge difference in the end. I see these automated services as a way to process more credit card transactions, more quickly, while selling the artist on the idea that they'll save tons of money and get reasonable results. I have to believe that most of the people who would use this type of stuff wouldn't know a good master fro a bad one as long as the level is hot, and the highs are higher and lows are lower. However, the reality is that this is taking the "service" aspect out of a service-based industry, and turning it into nothing more than automated transactions. It's even more sad that folks are defending this by using the same marketing speak that the industry uses to take away the power from the artist.
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Post by svart on Feb 21, 2017 19:57:25 GMT -6
My intentions have always been to gain more clients and grow into a larger space, but the market just doesn't support this, and I've been stuck in my "basement" instead of being able to fulfill my desires of being the world class facility. Yeah it's a "basement", but the rooms were properly acoustically planned, designed, and purpose built for the studio, no different than building out a studio in any space. It cost me thousands just for the rooms and treatments. I even talked to a number of folks over the years about taking side jobs in the bigger studios around town, but the leads dried up as the market dried up, and a couple of the larger studios I had possible work in closed down.. And again, stuck in my "basement". Just to stay clear, I'm not trying to take jabs at you or anything. I'm in a very similar situation. Mixing in a room in my house, renting out other studios to track in, dealing with clients that don't want to pay my rates, all the same stuff. I just think the guy with the guitar center special setup has the same goals as us, and doesn't want to be at the bottom rung hanging $50/song for full productions. If an artist would rather work with that guy, that's his prerogative. I'll do the best work that I can, on the gigs I get, and hope my track record keeps me working. You're right, he wants work just like we do, but he's also usually unwilling to progress much further. I try to keep tabs on a number of studios that seem like competition and only a couple have ever tried to progress beyond untreated rooms and a couple mics. He doesn't have to, his ridiculously low rates keep the bands rolling in, because nobody wants to spend money anymore. But that's what I'm saying, the industry made it seem like the art isn't worth anything, so therefor the artists don't want to spend anything. Now, instead of taking a stand against the industry and putting some worth back into the art, we have all these cottage industries springing up that try to push rates even lower by capitalizing on the belief that cheaper is OK, furthering the belief that it's not worth anything.
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Post by svart on Feb 21, 2017 20:07:56 GMT -6
1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Yes. Lets not kid ourselves about what is happening. Just because we don't like the answers, doesn't mean they aren't true. Of course, they are true to some degree, but there's a slippery slope here.. If you cook your own meals, are you taking money from McDonalds? If you brush your teeth, are you taking away money from dentists? Just because it's true doesn't mean it's a good thing. Not to get political, but it's thinking like this that ends up creating subsidies for farmers to grow crops that no one buys, or trade barriers and tariffs in order to keep manufacturing jobs that should, in a global market economy, simply be somewhere else. Technically yes. If we agree that at any moment in time there is only a finite amount of money on the planet, and you decided to cook rather than go to McDonalds, then yes, you technically are taking money away from their *possible* profit.. Same for dentists.. But that's just business gamesmanship. And I don't believe that type of thinking leads to subsidies. Politics and vote pandering is what leads to subsidies. That's what you get when people want someone else to deal with a problem instead of dealing with it themselves. Unfortunately for corn farmers, they can't just drive their corn to the docks and ship it overseas without the government interfering, so they are left with silos full of products that they aren't allowed to sell freely. However, instead of losing votes, the politicians have steadily moved laws into place that protect their jobs by pacifying the constituents with subsidies.. So now we have music industries that pacify consumers and artists with similar tactics..
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Post by gouge on Feb 21, 2017 20:44:29 GMT -6
I've stayed away from this thread so far because it can upset some who's income is on the line.
to be blunt. if a business is not making money then the business is not working. we can point our fingers at many things or we can change the business model.
the industry has moved on. it is not what it was. not because its broken but because things evolve.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 21, 2017 21:10:11 GMT -6
Couple of things. This gets down to "the value of music as a commodity." Right now, it is nearly worthless without a major label marketing budget. Streaming is the real culprit, extorting the business through an 80 year old loophole - which has been upheld by our government. (What the fuck is the government doing with their hands in this) Right now, the government is protecting the WRONG people. They are protecting Google, Spotify, Pandora etc over songwriters, artists, labels and publishers. Now you tell me which set of those are the monopolies. Until this gets corrected, the music industry will be forced to eat itself, because music has little to no value. Svart, Being a libertarian, surprised to hear you espouse these views. As for Aria, I think it's a service that absolutely serves a purpose. Being a songwriter, I never pay for professional mastering for my demos. No point in it. I just do it myself. Aria could be a time saver for me if it can help. $19? Sure, I'll pay for that - even if all it's doing is getting my tracks louder through the use of analog gear (which I'm not spending $10k for). If I'm making a record for myself or someone else, I'll absolutely pay a real mastering engineer - they're worth their weight in gold.) It ALL starts with the song. When that is being devalued, it's a chain reaction down our entire food chain. Well, I'm looking down at the whole picture. Artists traded their power for fame when they signed contracts that gave record companies total control over their music. Now they have no power in the industry at all, which is apparent by the way the top echelons control all of the media delivery services, keeping the artist poor, while reaping the benefits of their work. That's not capitalism, or free-market. That's monopolies that have grown from the ignorance of those who've been programmed to believe in the system. The first thing to do is to boycott the industry and destroy it by depriving it of the money it needs to survive. The problem is that people as a whole just don't care. Artists continue to hang onto the dream of fame and stardom (read: vindication of their art), or the viewers at home watching a show continue to watch (read: living vicariously through their favorite), or simply those consumers who just want cheap tunes to bob their head to as they listen mindlessly at work while typing their reports. The industry then promotes itself through the "grammys" and other awards shows where they simply pat themselves on the back and parade "stars" around to keep people believing in the "dream" that is only possible through the blessing of The Industry. I'm trying my best to do my part by not using services that aim to continue to dole out someone's hard work as commodity. I don't use Itunes or any of the streaming services. I don't have any subscriptions to anything like that. I still buy CD's of bands I like. I buy all my software in legit ways, and I try to be fair and balanced with every artist I work with, and promote their work by steering folks to the pay-for links of their work if the band has them to offer. I also boycott all automated checkout machines at stores, and will ask the manager to have a human check me out if there isn't one already available.. That's what I believe in, that I have the power to do something, even if it's small and won't make a huge difference in the end. I see these automated services as a way to process more credit card transactions, more quickly, while selling the artist on the idea that they'll save tons of money and get reasonable results. I have to believe that most of the people who would use this type of stuff wouldn't know a good master fro a bad one as long as the level is hot, and the highs are higher and lows are lower. However, the reality is that this is taking the "service" aspect out of a service-based industry, and turning it into nothing more than automated transactions. It's even more sad that folks are defending this by using the same marketing speak that the industry uses to take away the power from the artist. So I'm just a dolt and you've got it all figured out?
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