kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,124
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 28, 2017 8:24:49 GMT -6
Morning guys,
a little advice, as you know I bought th symphony somewhat used about 6 months, as it got lost by the shipper I launched a dispute and paypal froze the money in teh seller's account. He is a good guy and we are in constant communication working this out.
Luckily the apogee showed up but 10 days late but as it was new to me and as I only got the db25 cables the other night I have slowly been putting it through its paces to confirm its functionality.
Over the last day I did separate sessions at 24 bit 44.1, 48 etc up to 192 and using the same mike adn pre (wa87 and wa412) patched the output into channels 1-8 , one at a time and recorded the same short acoustic guitar part and played each track back.
Everything worked fine.
So I have confirmed the functionality of everything except the adat and smux and wordclock i/o but I cant imagine there is anything actually wrong with those. I don't have anther interface here with any of that i/o so other than renting something can't test it.
Would you tend to agree that the symphony is probably fine and I can just cancel the dispute or have I overlooked something: there isn't a scratch on it and it showed up apparently in perfect working order as the owner said it would.
He had said he would provide with his sale's documentation which apparently I could use to instate the warranty as he had not registered it but he hasn't sent it yet and I have asked politely a couple of times but that is not the end of the world.
Thoughts ?
Thx !
|
|
|
Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 28, 2017 9:17:46 GMT -6
get that bill of sale so you can register it first, then cancel the dispute.
|
|
|
Post by stratboy on Jan 28, 2017 10:04:07 GMT -6
Symphony is probably fine. Tell him you will cancel the dispute when he sends the receipt.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jan 28, 2017 11:02:00 GMT -6
This ^^^
That documentation was part of what was promised in the sale so until he sends it to you, he hasn't completely fulfilled his end of the contract.
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,124
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 28, 2017 11:17:57 GMT -6
All good points we discussed it but it wasn't promised but he has told me that he can provide it so I feel he should and if I stop the dispute, no leverage But on the apogee site they actually state that warranties are not transferable but as it was not registered to start with it seems they will let me start ?
|
|
|
Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 28, 2017 11:40:13 GMT -6
All good points we discussed it but it wasn't promised but he has told me that he can provide it so I feel he should and if I stop the dispute, no leverage But on the apogee site they actually state that warranties are not transferable but as it was not registered to start with it seems they will let me start ? Yeah. If they ask, just tell them that he's your production partner and he bought it for your shared studio.
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,124
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 28, 2017 11:45:25 GMT -6
good idea but he is in the UK and I am not ? I'll ask though.
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 28, 2017 12:00:47 GMT -6
My first interface was a Digital mBox Pro. Then I got an RME FireFace 400. I A/B'd them. The RME was a step up. You could hear it. Then I got a Ross Martin. Same thing. Run the same source thru the monitor switcher, level match and hear the difference. Then I got a Svartbox. Again, noticeable upgrade in quality of sound. Now I have a Motu 16a and the Svartbox, a class A amp and some killer monitors. If a metaphorical band was playing in front of me, the mBox was like covering them with heavy canvas. The Svartbox is like fine nylons. Maybe a Symphony puts even less of a barrier between the listener and what was played by the band during the recording session. My experience is that converters sound different and quality matters. How do you know it's not your ears that have gotten fine tuned over the years from the work and experience? How do you know the converter is responsible for what you are hearing? I think improving room accuracy and monitoring are most crucial aside from front end signal chain investments, this is where the $ will make the most difference sound quality wise... 😀
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 28, 2017 12:03:22 GMT -6
@martin, the symphony would definitely make the car traffic and laundry machines sound great when they bleed onto your vocal takes And how would the symphony do this?
|
|
|
Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 28, 2017 12:04:56 GMT -6
@martin, the symphony would definitely make the car traffic and laundry machines sound great when they bleed onto your vocal takes And how would the symphony do this? It's a joke, his apartment is at street level in Manhattan and right above the building's laundromat in the basement. I've been there, Martin has mentioned it before.
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 28, 2017 12:07:31 GMT -6
good idea but he is in the UK and I am not ? I'll ask though. You purchased it originally and then all of a sudden had to prepare to move. Didn't use it much, have your original receipt and now that your settled and your new studio is up and running you remembered you never registered your new product in the midst of a crazy continent move..... 😂😀👌
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jan 28, 2017 12:07:53 GMT -6
My first interface was a Digital mBox Pro. Then I got an RME FireFace 400. I A/B'd them. The RME was a step up. You could hear it. Then I got a Ross Martin. Same thing. Run the same source thru the monitor switcher, level match and hear the difference. Then I got a Svartbox. Again, noticeable upgrade in quality of sound. Now I have a Motu 16a and the Svartbox, a class A amp and some killer monitors. If a metaphorical band was playing in front of me, the mBox was like covering them with heavy canvas. The Svartbox is like fine nylons. Maybe a Symphony puts even less of a barrier between the listener and what was played by the band during the recording session. My experience is that converters sound different and quality matters. How do you know it's not your ears that have gotten fine tuned over the years from the work and experience? How do you know the converter is responsible for what you are hearing? I think improving room accuracy and monitoring are most crucial aside from front end signal chain investments, this is where the $ will make the most difference sound quality wise... 😀 In my experience, as your ear gets better, you heard converter difference more, not less. I just did a shootout with a couple converters the other night and I the different sonics were a lot more eveident than they were when I tested the same units last year. That doesn't negate the fact that investing in room/source is probably more bang for your buck as long as your converters are already up to a high level. Different for everyone what yields the best results though.
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 28, 2017 12:08:42 GMT -6
And how would the symphony do this? It's a joke, his apartment is at street level in Manhattan and right above the building's laundromat in the basement. I've been there, Martin has mentioned it before. I know for some reason the smiley didn't post... Cheers 🍻
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 28, 2017 12:28:06 GMT -6
Sidebar; it is amazing I ever get anything done here, besides the commercial laundry room noise, there's the huge elevator motor room underneath and the mail room outside my door, and garbage collection outside my windows.!They're renovating the basement to make it a "luxury" building, and putting a gym underneath my apartment. I'm praying that doesn't mean disco music blasting underneath me all day for aerobic exercise class!
It sounds like hell, but I'm in the best neighborhood, in a nice space (for NYC), right next to Riverside Park. The Upper West Side is one of only 2 or 3 non-commercial zones in Manhattan, so it's actually relatively quiet here. I just have the worst location there. Talk about room acoustics, i don't even bother it's so bad here, I'll get that together when I finally relocate.
Still, a Symphony would make the noise sound just a little sweeter ;-)
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 28, 2017 13:46:38 GMT -6
Many of the same differences are true of line stages. That said, converter filter differences can be a big deal but that only happens in the highest end converters that don't use the filters in the chips.
|
|
|
Post by stratboy on Jan 28, 2017 14:31:56 GMT -6
My first interface was a Digital mBox Pro. Then I got an RME FireFace 400. I A/B'd them. The RME was a step up. You could hear it. Then I got a Ross Martin. Same thing. Run the same source thru the monitor switcher, level match and hear the difference. Then I got a Svartbox. Again, noticeable upgrade in quality of sound. Now I have a Motu 16a and the Svartbox, a class A amp and some killer monitors. If a metaphorical band was playing in front of me, the mBox was like covering them with heavy canvas. The Svartbox is like fine nylons. Maybe a Symphony puts even less of a barrier between the listener and what was played by the band during the recording session. My experience is that converters sound different and quality matters. How do you know it's not your ears that have gotten fine tuned over the years from the work and experience? How do you know the converter is responsible for what you are hearing? I think improving room accuracy and monitoring are most crucial aside from front end signal chain investments, this is where the $ will make the most difference sound quality wise... 😀 Well... 1. My room was good acoustically from day one. Hasn't changed since I built it, so that variable is eliminated. 2. I used the same monitors from mBox thru 16a, so there goes another. 3. I A/B compared each upgrade, so that eliminates that one... The only thing I haven't done is compare the mBox to the motu 16a. Let's see, is there anyone on this forum who thinks the bottom of the line digi from 2006 will beat the top of the line Motu from 2016? Any takers?
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,124
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 28, 2017 14:44:49 GMT -6
At apogee , they are one step ahead, you are supposed to upload an image of your original sales documentation The original owner seems like a stand up guy, even if he comes from the land of the BFW (Bureau of Funny Walks) , hopefully it will work out but as said before I am super happy with the symphony !
|
|
|
Post by stratboy on Jan 28, 2017 14:59:41 GMT -6
All that said, I totally agree that investing in acoustics and the monitor chain is better bang for the buck. But if you have those things down, converters do sound different and quality matters.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 28, 2017 15:04:03 GMT -6
Chase, no worries man, if you put the Symphony in your room and compared it to something like an Apollo 16...you'd know in an instant the Symphony sounds better Ummmm. OK. They are using the same chips
|
|
|
Post by sozocaps on Jan 28, 2017 16:59:26 GMT -6
Just saying, Chips mean crap.... it's like saying I have a GREAT CAR because I have a Mercedes engine in it... It's not even close to a Mercedes. In Converters, its the power supply noise, layout, analog section, clocking that really matters...
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 28, 2017 17:31:54 GMT -6
Chase, no worries man, if you put the Symphony in your room and compared it to something like an Apollo 16...you'd know in an instant the Symphony sounds better Ummmm. OK. They are using the same chips That's good to know, but that doesn't necessarily make them equal I wouldn't think. I imagine the implementation and all the surrounding architecture has a hand in the final sound. I've been pleased with the performance of my Apollo's, so it's not as if I have some resentment toward UAD. The Symphony just sounds better to me. Granted, I haven't put them side by side, and have only heard a few things, but the difference made me want a Symphony if I could afford one. It just has an atmosphere the Apollo doesn't. The overall size of the soundstage is different, higher and deeper, more detailed, but not etched, more natural. I can only describe it as cinematic.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Jan 28, 2017 17:45:57 GMT -6
Martin and sozocaps, I agree. I was actually able to put this theory into practice comparing my Tascam UH-7000 to my Presonus DP88. They both use the common Burr Brown IC's that a lot of people use, yet they do sound significantly different.
If you really focus on the sound quality you might find some tiny similarites. Fractions of fractions. But the big picture is in the entire circuit, not just one or two parts.
Of course, those parts matter. The signal to noise for example can only be to a level allowed by that IC, no better.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 28, 2017 18:38:50 GMT -6
I think it's hard to say something sounds better if you haven't had hem side by side.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 28, 2017 18:41:03 GMT -6
Just saying, Chips mean crap.... it's like saying I have a GREAT CAR because I have a Mercedes engine in it... It's not even close to a Mercedes. In Converters, its the power supply noise, layout, analog section, clocking that really matters... I was countering the absolute that Martin said. He doesn't know if one sounds better than the other because he's never had them side by side.
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jan 28, 2017 19:25:57 GMT -6
I think it's hard to say something sounds better if you haven't had hem side by side. This.
|
|