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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 24, 2017 20:37:19 GMT -6
Ironically after both here and on other forums causing some to think I work for UA, which isn't true, last week I sold my second apollo cus I bumped into a screaming deal in the uk on a very young apogee symphony mkii 8x8 thunderbolt. I chatted with a couple of people privately ( here and elsewhere) as it was kind of my far off dream next interface but they are 5 grand cdn new so it had been just a dream. So, I bought in on my loc and luckily sold my apollo a week later. It showed up today after getting lost for almost 10 days whew ! but I bought the wrong db25 cables so have just been listening on cans to prerecorded mixes and I love, love love it, how's that for objective assessment More later,
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 25, 2017 4:54:52 GMT -6
Whatttt!!!! Congrats 😀 With the amazing new UAD tech, how come you didn't want to spend $1200 on the next generation quad twin 😂😭😂😭 I'm happy for you and hope you enjoy using the mk2 everyday!
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Post by Ward on Jan 25, 2017 6:34:57 GMT -6
I see a box of T50 staples, and the fire is going... so I was thinking a real sexy contractor had popped 'round for a drop. And oh yeah, nice symphony too! LOL
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 25, 2017 6:36:54 GMT -6
Ha ha : good one: the new twin mkii has the same converters as my old Bf 8, although the specs on the UA site indicate that the Bf8 has somewhat better performance, not certain why. I have had the SF8, spent a grand cdn on the bla mod and had the bf8, they were all good but I certainly prefer the Smkii. I think you do get what you pay for and to put this into perspective the features difference is the Apollo has 4 on board ic pres, the quad dsp, 2 headphones outs and hi z inputs, the Smkii 8x8 has no pres, no dps, 1 headphone jack, no hi-z input and both are tbolt and have mostly the same io. The Smkii 8x8 is essentially 50% more money than the Apollo, so you are paying for the better conversion AD and DA, the much better headphone outs DAC and the touchscreen ( which works perfectly). So, the parts build quality and feature performance on the Smkii are what you are buying. I am very very happy with the Smkii. I still have an octo card and all my UA plugs and that of course works seamlessly in my daw. The Smkii has out going latency of 1.7ms at 32 buffer @44.1 24 bit. As soon, as I get my male db25 to trs cables (Friday): very interested in tracking and confirming how the latency is with plugs in Daw. I have read its like 1.3ms at 96K ? I didn't use to track with ua plugs in console, just used my OB pres and comps, but I am still curious how fast the Smkii is in real time
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 25, 2017 6:37:37 GMT -6
I see a box of T50 staples, and the fire is going... so I was thinking a real sexy contractor had popped 'round for a drop. And oh yeah, nice symphony too! LOL oh you know Belinda too ?
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Post by Guitar on Jan 25, 2017 7:55:06 GMT -6
Very interesting! I swapped Apollo silver for Clarett recently as my main master interface. There are just too many good options out there.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 25, 2017 13:39:08 GMT -6
kcatthedog the UA interface was a joke a play on how you are supposed to in cahoots with UAD We all know symphony one and two blow black and silver Apollo's out the water here on RGO 😭🤣
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 25, 2017 15:19:19 GMT -6
Only here ?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 25, 2017 20:13:20 GMT -6
monkeyxx, I'm curious about your impressions of the Apollo vs. Clarett. I just got the Apollo 8 and the free quad satellite. I don't use that many plugs, but it's really nice to finally be able to choose any plug without worrying about dsp. As I slowly move toward more analog gear, I foresee that the satellite will most likely handle my UAD dsp needs. So, at some point, when I can afford it, I may do the same thing kcat has done, and try to get to the next level with an interface. Even if I thought the Clarett sounded better, I could manage that fairly easily.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 26, 2017 7:53:16 GMT -6
monkeyxx, I'm curious about your impressions of the Apollo vs. Clarett. I just got the Apollo 8 and the free quad satellite. I don't use that many plugs, but it's really nice to finally be able to choose any plug without worrying about dsp. As I slowly move toward more analog gear, I foresee that the satellite will most likely handle my UAD dsp needs. So, at some point, when I can afford it, I may do the same thing kcat has done, and try to get to the next level with an interface. Even if I thought the Clarett sounded better, I could manage that fairly easily. Hey Martin. My big question is, what does the black Apollo sound like? I have only compared the Clarett to the silver Apollo, and in my opinion it is significantly better sounding, like 15% or something to use an abstract description. It's just got a more clear and clean sound to it. In fact it's the best conversion I have ever heard to date. But you also have to keep in mind that the Clarett is approximately 1/2 to 1/3!!! of the price of a new Black Apollo. Mind you there is no DSP, but that is a massive price difference. In my mind, the Clarett is one of the best bargains in high end pro audio out there at the moment. Having a Clarett and a nice Quad Satellite or something similar sounds like an ideal setup to me. That way you are not tied to the Apollo per se, you would be free to swap out your main interface as needed without losing your plugins. Also, if you have Apollo money, the new Red 4 and Red 8 seem to pack in a serious amount of I/O and features, along with cutting edge technology like the Dante networking. If those sound even better than the Clarett, I can only imagine what that would sound like. I've been buying a lot of interfaces the past 2 or 3 years and they seem to be progressing at an extremely rapid pace. I sort of start to wonder when enough is enough. Like, the ones I was using last year were perfectly fine until I heard the newest one. So I wouldn't get too caught up in this "rat race" of sorts, just something to mess with if you've got the time and money to do so. Personally it's a hobby of mine which is why I have been through so many of them.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 26, 2017 8:55:02 GMT -6
Thanks monkeyxx. The new Apollo is definitely smoother and has a slightly bigger soundstage. Mixing is a little easier too. It still has that signature Apollo bump, but it's definitely an improvement, and I like it. It's a well thought out, reliable design and easily understood too. But, if another comparably priced interface sounded better, I'd have no reason not to use it, providing other things are equal, like latency and integration with Logic. I'll probably just wait it out and look at the Symphony like kcat did, even if it takes me a year to get there.
From what I've heard, which isn't much, the Symphony has a characteristic that's not easily described. It's just way bigger overall. The soundstage is more 3D, wider, higher, deeper., all in perfect balance, so the sense of space is greatly improved.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 26, 2017 9:13:45 GMT -6
Clarett and Apollo are considered prosumer interfaces by most and I own a SF Apollo so I'm not bashing the products. The BF Apollo 16 is pro level in my opinion as well as the focusrite rednet converter system. I still believe though if you can't record or mix well it's not the clarett or Apollo, yes the better the DA the better the mix, and you can't mix what you can't hear. I still think Johnkenn would sound like Johnkenn whether thru a Burl, Clarett, Apollo, Symph, Hilo etc
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Post by Guitar on Jan 26, 2017 9:26:56 GMT -6
Thanks monkeyxx. The new Apollo is definitely smoother and has a slightly bigger soundstage. Mixing is a little easier too. It still has that signature Apollo bump, but it's definitely an improvement, and I like it. It's a well thought out, reliable design and easily understood too. But, if another comparably priced interface sounded better, I'd have no reason not to use it, providing other things are equal, like latency and integration with Logic. I'll probably just wait it out and look at the Symphony like kcat did, even if it takes me a year to get there. From what I've heard, which isn't much, the Symphony has a characteristic that's not easily described. It's just way bigger overall. The soundstage is more 3D, wider, higher, deeper., all in perfect balance, so the sense of space is greatly improved. I know exactly what you mean by the Apollo "bump." I think the Apogee has some sort of signature like this as well, but would have a different name, like you said. Maybe a sheen or a presence. I'd like to spend some time with a Symphony just to see what it's really like. I think the Clarett is on the very neutral side of things, which I guess is why I like it. It almost has no signature sound other than space and transparency. There are some other brands out there like this, too. I guess it's just in the ear of the beholder, personal preference and all of that. ChaseUTB a lot of major records are being done on these interfaces. Despite the price point or "perception" of them. But it is interesting to look at these compared to, say, a Pro Tools HDX or Focusrite RedNet system, connected to an LFAC or whatever. Very different way of working. Also, I don't think the Apollo 16 is worlds apart from the 8's or Duos... just different I/O and a smidge of sound difference. I don't think it's fair to look only at price points, moreso how the things actually work. It's also interesting to me that these new boxes "blow away" things from 15 years ago. Yet we still listen to those albums as classic masterpieces.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 26, 2017 9:39:24 GMT -6
Thanks monkeyxx. The new Apollo is definitely smoother and has a slightly bigger soundstage. Mixing is a little easier too. It still has that signature Apollo bump, but it's definitely an improvement, and I like it. It's a well thought out, reliable design and easily understood too. But, if another comparably priced interface sounded better, I'd have no reason not to use it, providing other things are equal, like latency and integration with Logic. I'll probably just wait it out and look at the Symphony like kcat did, even if it takes me a year to get there. From what I've heard, which isn't much, the Symphony has a characteristic that's not easily described. It's just way bigger overall. The soundstage is more 3D, wider, higher, deeper., all in perfect balance, so the sense of space is greatly improved. I know exactly what you mean by the Apollo "bump." I think the Apogee has some sort of signature like this as well, but would have a different name, like you said. I'd like to spend some time with a Symphony just to see what it's really like. I think the Clarett is on the very neutral side of things, which I guess is why I like it. It almost has no signature sound other than space and transparency. There are some other brands out there like this, too. I guess it's just in the ear of the beholder, personal preference and all of that. ChaseUTB a lot of major records are being done on these interfaces. Despite the price point or "perception" of them. But it is interesting to look at these compared to, say, a Pro Tools HDX or Focusrite RedNet system, connected to an LFAC or whatever. Very different way of working. Also, I don't think the Apollo 16 is worlds apart from the 8's or Duos... just different I/O and a smidge of sound difference. I don't think it's fair to look only at price points, moreso how the things actually work. It's also interesting to me that these new boxes "blow away" things from 15 years ago. Yet we still listen to those albums as classic masterpieces. I consider the Apollo 16 pro level because it's a dedicated converter as well as it specs and sounds the best out of the Apollo range. Apogee adx16 and Rosetta are/ were considered Pro/ Hi end as well. I know lots of major records are being done on BF/ SF Apollo's, I'm not so sure about Clarett. Not to say the Clarett isn't capable because it is, however I don't need a pro or a hit major record to know whether a piece of gear is worthy and stands on its own two.. As to your second thought, I agree whole heartedly. The avid hdx Hd I/o is definitely a pro hi end system of dedicated converters only like the rednet system. At that level is all pro level hi end however it comes down to personal preference. More subjective by individuality however if the consensus is that the music sounds good than it is good whether recorded/ captured via LFAC and Tape, a Clarett, Apollo, Hdx, Slate Vrs, Burl, Apogee, Lynx, Merging Tech, Jcf Latte etc 😱😬
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 26, 2017 9:51:40 GMT -6
With a few exceptions, the "classic" recordings we all refer to so often were done in a great sounding studio, with a great sounding board, with a great producer and a great engineer, with a choice of the greatest microphones ever made, with a brilliantly talented artist or group. So it took a team to make that happen. Our benchmarks are a blessing, as they may never be made that way again, but for us to approach that in a basement or living room is laudable, but it includes a lot of wishful thinking on our part.
Still, did anyone ever hear Buddy Holly's NY tapes? He put a mic into a tape recorder, stuck it on the fireplace mantle and sang some songs for publishing purposes. Buddy unplugged, tops just about anything I've heard in a decade, so, what and who we record makes all the difference in the end.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 26, 2017 9:55:05 GMT -6
Yeah...somehow I've convinced myself that I can't be a professional without a Hilo...(or add current obsession here)
As my father would say, I need to just "settle my ovaries..."
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 26, 2017 10:06:17 GMT -6
Johnkenn why do you feel gear makes you pro? You are a serious pro with or without a Hilo...You have amazing talent that you are blessed with. I have heard clips on GS from maybe 2011-2012 when you say you didnt know what you were doing and your recordings/ singing was stellar and both have only improved since then as you have honed your craft and worked at producing better records/ vocals! I agree the Upton -> Helios -> Sta -> Symph ( not sure what Ad you use ) sounds amazing on you, however so did the unmodded cv4 way back when... I know the gear the matters, it does, however it doesn't classify you or your skill level. We have seen CLA do CLA on SSL and on only Slate plugs.. That's the exact same comparison with you I made before about hearing youvia stock cv4 chain and hearing you via Upton chain, it's still you
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,953
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Post by ericn on Jan 26, 2017 10:32:25 GMT -6
Not to put words in John's mouth, but as much talent as our leader has, he to falls down that rabbit hole of the magic bullet. In a world where success is as much about luck as hard work and talent thinking a magic box might just be the ticket is an easy myth to buy into! You know what, in this vocation and many others it's what makes the world go round and keeps a roof over our heads.
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Post by ragan on Jan 26, 2017 12:57:30 GMT -6
I know exactly what you mean by the Apollo "bump." I think the Apogee has some sort of signature like this as well, but would have a different name, like you said. I'd like to spend some time with a Symphony just to see what it's really like. I think the Clarett is on the very neutral side of things, which I guess is why I like it. It almost has no signature sound other than space and transparency. There are some other brands out there like this, too. I guess it's just in the ear of the beholder, personal preference and all of that. ChaseUTB a lot of major records are being done on these interfaces. Despite the price point or "perception" of them. But it is interesting to look at these compared to, say, a Pro Tools HDX or Focusrite RedNet system, connected to an LFAC or whatever. Very different way of working. Also, I don't think the Apollo 16 is worlds apart from the 8's or Duos... just different I/O and a smidge of sound difference. I don't think it's fair to look only at price points, moreso how the things actually work. It's also interesting to me that these new boxes "blow away" things from 15 years ago. Yet we still listen to those albums as classic masterpieces. I consider the Apollo 16 pro level because it's a dedicated converter as well as it specs and sounds the best out of the Apollo range. Apogee adx16 and Rosetta are/ were considered Pro/ Hi end as well. I know lots of major records are being done on BF/ SF Apollo's, I'm not so sure about Clarett. Not to say the Clarett isn't capable because it is, however I don't need a pro or a hit major record to know whether a piece of gear is worthy and stands on its own two.. As to your second thought, I agree whole heartedly. The avid hdx Hd I/o is definitely a pro hi end system of dedicated converters only like the rednet system. At that level is all pro level hi end however it comes down to personal preference. More subjective by individuality however if the consensus is that the music sounds good than it is good whether recorded/ captured via LFAC and Tape, a Clarett, Apollo, Hdx, Slate Vrs, Burl, Apogee, Lynx, Merging Tech, Jcf Latte etc 😱😬 FWIW, the only difference between the BF Apollo 8 and the BF Apollo 16 is the DA. ADC is the same.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 26, 2017 13:22:50 GMT -6
Still, did anyone ever hear Buddy Holly's NY tapes? He put a mic into a tape recorder, stuck it on the fireplace mantle and sang some songs for publishing purposes. Buddy unplugged, tops just about anything I've heard in a decade, so, what and who we record makes all the difference in the end. Moving to San Francisco and volunteering to do live music broadcasts at a radio station with only an old RCA 4 input mono console from the late '40s, 2 RCA 44s and 2 Neumann M269s was a real eye-opener after Motown/Detroit which made Wally Heider's look primitive. It sounded amazing and was my first hint that most signal processing is just repairing the problems created by headphones and overdubbing. I also had a cassette from a writer I knew at Motown that had been made using the internal mike and compressor on a little battery machine and copied speaker to microphone using a second machine. His wurli playing and singing along with the song was so good it made anything in the top ten sound weak! (The publishing got sold to Michael Jackson.) I use to play it for people and watch their jaws drop. Unfortunately it got lost in our move to Nashville.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 26, 2017 14:42:29 GMT -6
I'm jealous!!!! I'm so burned out on the fan noise of my Symph MK1 with two modules If I had the funds and a buyer for the MK1, I would instantly switch to an MK2.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 26, 2017 15:01:52 GMT -6
Johnkenn why do you feel gear makes you pro? You are a serious pro with or without a Hilo...You have amazing talent that you are blessed with. I have heard clips on GS from maybe 2011-2012 when you say you didnt know what you were doing and your recordings/ singing was stellar and both have only improved since then as you have honed your craft and worked at producing better records/ vocals! I agree the Upton -> Helios -> Sta -> Symph ( not sure what Ad you use ) sounds amazing on you, however so did the unmodded cv4 way back when... I know the gear the matters, it does, however it doesn't classify you or your skill level. We have seen CLA do CLA on SSL and on only Slate plugs.. That's the exact same comparison with you I made before about hearing youvia stock cv4 chain and hearing you via Upton chain, it's still you Well, thank you, but I was just being silly. I don't REALLY think lacking anything precludes you from being professional. Btw - I no longer have the Helios or the Symphony...sigh.
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Post by joseph on Jan 26, 2017 15:22:54 GMT -6
I'm jealous!!!! I'm so burned out on the fan noise of my Symph MK1 with two modules If I had the funds and a buyer for the MK1, I would instantly switch to an MK2. Yeah, personally I don't think I'll give them my money next time I feel like upgrading or expanding my converters. Nor do I trust that they would properly fix any MK2 manufacturing problems that might pop up. Because it appears they never fully fixed the fan issue on the MK1 with more than 1 module, so now I can't take the risk of buying another module for it and instead must look to more expensive but reliable solutions. I'm really pissed about that. Unlike Bricasti, for example, they also bullshit about the whole future proof thing.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 26, 2017 16:49:26 GMT -6
In their defense, the symphonies were developed in a time when folks that would buy them had a machine room separate from the control room to hide the noise. I spoke with a couple reps who have done sessions with the mk2 loaded with a 16x16 and mic pre card, and the fan didnt turn on for them during their sessions. However I've also heard from some owners of both the mk1 and mk2 that the mk1 sounds louder (cards, not chassis) so there's that whole thing with the card redesign..
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 26, 2017 21:24:37 GMT -6
Got my db25 cables today so hooked things up and rewired patchbay.
I feel I got a little lucky grabbing the symphony mkii. I had been thinking about a future without the Apollo so got the wa412 to not miss Apollo pres.
And I was prepared to jump and take the risk but luckily sold my Apollo without too much difficulty.
So far I find its the extra dimensionality of the soundstage and the increased awareness of where things are in the Soundstage that striking me and a natural musicality to the sound.
Very pleased !
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