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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 20, 2017 15:23:45 GMT -6
Hi guys, thanks for checking the VRS8 and ML-2 launch video. I really love making music and making gear, and that's why I do what I do. Creating these presentations is no easy task and it's not something I love doing, but I do it with passion and pride because we work hard on these tools and it's rewarding to show them to the industry after years of late nights. I'm well aware that when you put yourself out there as the face of the company in the internet age, you are bound to be off putting to some and clearly it has brought out the inner 'high school haters club' at this forum, and that's fine. After a decade, I'm able to filter through it so that I can find the users who genuinely have great perspectives and feedback on the industry, which allows me to learn and improve. That's why I always keep my eyes and ears open at forums like realgearonline... it's invaluable to help me make better decisions about future developments. So thanks for the discussion, and let me know if there are any questions that I could answer about the Virtual Recording Studio. And if you have any issues with our software, I urge you to contact support at www.slatesupport.com and we'll help you as fast as possible. Martin, as soon as I'm back from NAMM I'll send you some FG-X setting for your awesome tunes. Thanks very much guys, Steven Very nicely handled...and I apologize if I allowed my inner hater to come out.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 20, 2017 15:35:28 GMT -6
This is the first time in a long time I have been disappointed in the quality of the dialog on RGO. Debating the merits of gear, technique and even artistry is one thing, commenting on looks, hype and reality show stars is another. On this forum, we have: Distinguished designers and entrepreneurs (Dan, Langston, jsteiger, Svart), industry icons (Bob O, Dr Bill), world class gear pimps (Ericn), influential writers, players, folks who have worked their asses off to learn something and then share it. Who hasn't learned something from a post by mrholmes, Ragan, jcoutu or MJB? I'm embarrassed because I can't even begin to list all the names and accomplishments and people I have learned from. Forgive me. So now we are joined by another industry icon. Somebody who knows one heck of a lot, has shared it, and who has a history of bringing innovative products to the market, who has built a business (some of us know just how hard that is to do) and been very public with both his successes and mistakes. I own some Slate products, and in the past, when there have been problems, he has personally answered my questions and made things right. I'm not the least bit surprised he would offer to help Martin with FG-X settings. Based on my experience that is typical of him. Has anyone in this thread given him the warm welcome I have seen with dozens of other new arrivals to RGO? Welcome to RGO, Steven! The best audio recording forum on the Web. I appreciate what you're saying, but Steven has been welcomed here as he has posted in the past. If he didn't see it, "Welcome, stevenslate." We appreciate you being here. I think I said it earlier in the thread, but I use VCC on every mix. Love it. Love the new Reverb Classics and Delays...and looking forward to SSD5. That being said, we are not the ONLY forum with people that have trouble with the marketing. And Slate isn't the ONLY manufacturer to have people hate on his marketing. (Check out the Chandler REDD Mic thread.) It's a fine line, but all opinions are welcome here. Steven is welcome to defend his products from the naysayers - that's what this forum is for - to separate the myths and the marketing from the facts and real life experience. I have to admit I probably haven't moderated as well lately as I've been busy...I'll try and do a better job of it.
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Post by gouge on Jan 20, 2017 15:37:31 GMT -6
Hmm. Why is this good and auto tune bad. Well, I don't think auto tune is bad.... 8) perhaps you you are confusing me with someone else? cheers Wiz I wasn't havin a dig, thought you made some comment in the autotune thread. can't remember now. :-)
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Post by chasmanian on Jan 20, 2017 16:03:30 GMT -6
This is the first time in a long time I have been disappointed in the quality of the dialog on RGO. Debating the merits of gear, technique and even artistry is one thing, commenting on looks, hype and reality show stars is another. On this forum, we have: Distinguished designers and entrepreneurs (Dan, Langston, jsteiger, Svart), industry icons (Bob O, Dr Bill), world class gear pimps (Ericn), influential writers, players, folks who have worked their asses off to learn something and then share it. Who hasn't learned something from a post by mrholmes, Ragan, jcoutu or MJB? I'm embarrassed because I can't even begin to list all the names and accomplishments and people I have learned from. Forgive me. So now we are joined by another industry icon. Somebody who knows one heck of a lot, has shared it, and who has a history of bringing innovative products to the market, who has built a business (some of us know just how hard that is to do) and been very public with both his successes and mistakes. I own some Slate products, and in the past, when there have been problems, he has personally answered my questions and made things right. I'm not the least bit surprised he would offer to help Martin with FG-X settings. Based on my experience that is typical of him. Has anyone in this thread given him the warm welcome I have seen with dozens of other new arrivals to RGO? Welcome to RGO, Steven! The best audio recording forum on the Web. Good point... A little manners and humility go a long way. Heading straight to the negative about a product you have never seen, let alone used...is just poor form. Personal remarks and observations about someones looks, really? Thats not what this place is about. Stick to gear... Stick to being friendly and helpful. Offer advice to help others, and learn from the advice others have. Offer advice, based on your personal experience with the gear or technique, not what you read or watched on the internet. Post examples when you can. Be a nice and kind and thoughtful human.... we need more of them. cheers Wiz mods, respectfully request this post made into a sticky, and required reading by all who post at this very excellent site, frequented by so many good kind-hearted and intelligent generous music peeps.
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Post by wiz on Jan 20, 2017 16:53:10 GMT -6
Well, I don't think auto tune is bad.... 8) perhaps you you are confusing me with someone else? cheers Wiz I wasn't havin a dig, thought you made some comment in the autotune thread. can't remember now. :-) Hey gouge didn't take it that way... all cool.... I don't remember making any comment... but then I am 52 8) Its a great tool.... used judiciously its a life saver... I don't mean auto tune alone.. but all pitch correction tools... cheers Wiz
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Post by wiz on Jan 20, 2017 16:55:46 GMT -6
I will say this..... about audio interfaces... in general...
the single thing that is most important to me... is stability.
In the past, having in house driver development, or really good third party driver development has been key to success IMHO.
only time will tell on that.. but its of equal importance (maybe more so) than sound quality.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 20, 2017 17:13:14 GMT -6
I will say this..... about audio interfaces... in general... the single thing that is most important to me... is stability. In the past, having in house driver development, or really good third party driver development has been key to success IMHO. only time will tell on that.. but its of equal importance (maybe more so) than sound quality. cheers Wiz This is why I'm a big fan of #1 the new Motu interfaces because not once have I had a single issue, it's just rock solid but also sounds insanely good. And #2 External clocking because even though the interface/converter manufacturers tell you there's no need to clock externally I've always had a much much more stable running system when I do. In fact, the whole reason I got into external clocking was because of an issue I had back in the days of having DAE errors and someone suggested to get a good external clock and as soon as I hooked it up the issue was gone so I've just been doing it ever since. Also for me it improves my conversion and soundstage, plus, it's always proven to be rock solid and further prevent crashes or dropouts, for me at least.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 20, 2017 17:44:06 GMT -6
I met Steven around 4 years ago. The AES floor was mayhem, but he took a couple of minutes to chat, and was a perfectly normal and gracious cat. By chance, I was invited to join a friend in the Slate/Ocean Way private room, and we listened to some of my mixes on the lovely Ocean Way monitors with Focusrite gear and the Slate Raven. All those guys, Alan Sides, Alex Oana, and Steven were clearly gearheads, and enjoyed the conversations and questions as much as a bunch of Real Gear regulars getting together would. So I can vouch that Steven is not virtual ;-) Now, I too was disappointed in the 64 bit change, and some other things, but he kept on moving forward, and if Slate makes something I like, I'll be happy to use it. I have no marketing data to use, but there must be a market for these things, and in many ways, it's pretty cool. Me, I prefer the real gear, (pun intended). Right now I use the VBC grey and red a lot, and the Revival occasionally.
The offer to try mastering with FG-X is a little bit of fun we're having on facebook. I have almost every Waves plug known to man, tons of UAD's plugs and many other company's plug-ins, but nothing has sounded right to me for mastering. I'm picky, I thought the UAD Shadow Hills was thin, and UAD knows what they're doing. Maybe I'll only be happy when I get a STAM SSL and another Warm Audio EQP-1A and run my mixes through hardware, but if I can get better faux mastering, even if only for posting song demos and sharing them with people I work with, it would be good news.
AS Real Gear grows, it too will experience some growing pains. I'm grateful to all the cool cats here who've become real world friends, and without John's efforts to make it a better place, we'd have all been stuck in Purpleville, listening to hacks rant about how stupid everyone else is.
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Post by Quint on Jan 20, 2017 18:02:57 GMT -6
This is the first time in a long time I have been disappointed in the quality of the dialog on RGO. Debating the merits of gear, technique and even artistry is one thing, commenting on looks, hype and reality show stars is another. On this forum, we have: Distinguished designers and entrepreneurs (Dan, Langston, jsteiger, Svart), industry icons (Bob O, Dr Bill), world class gear pimps (Ericn), influential writers, players, folks who have worked their asses off to learn something and then share it. Who hasn't learned something from a post by mrholmes, Ragan, jcoutu or MJB? I'm embarrassed because I can't even begin to list all the names and accomplishments and people I have learned from. Forgive me. So now we are joined by another industry icon. Somebody who knows one heck of a lot, has shared it, and who has a history of bringing innovative products to the market, who has built a business (some of us know just how hard that is to do) and been very public with both his successes and mistakes. I own some Slate products, and in the past, when there have been problems, he has personally answered my questions and made things right. I'm not the least bit surprised he would offer to help Martin with FG-X settings. Based on my experience that is typical of him. Has anyone in this thread given him the warm welcome I have seen with dozens of other new arrivals to RGO? Welcome to RGO, Steven! The best audio recording forum on the Web. I appreciate what you're saying, but Steven has been welcomed here as he has posted in the past. If he didn't see it, "Welcome, stevenslate." We appreciate you being here. I think I said it earlier in the thread, but I use VCC on every mix. Love it. Love the new Reverb Classics and Delays...and looking forward to SSD5. That being said, we are not the ONLY forum with people that have trouble with the marketing. And Slate isn't the ONLY manufacturer to have people hate on his marketing. (Check out the Chandler REDD Mic thread.) It's a fine line, but all opinions are welcome here. Steven is welcome to defend his products from the naysayers - that's what this forum is for - to separate the myths and the marketing from the facts and real life experience. I have to admit I probably haven't moderated as well lately as I've been busy...I'll try and do a better job of it. I agree 100% on the need to keep things respectful while still allowing open discussion and differing opinions. That being said, at some point members of a forum should be able to push back against excessive marketeering. Granted, the balance between the two might be a somewhat fluid one but it still needs to be there. That's one of the reasons this site exists. Keeping the hype in check and basing gear discussions on actual use and not rabid fanboyism is what is supposed to differentiate this place from the OTHER site. If Steven can keep that in check here, then he should be welcome like anyone else. However, there in lies the rub. There is a history which suggests otherwise. I know I'm not the only one turned off by the excessive Slate hype. I agree with others in this thread that we should be talking about the quality of the gear rather than the designer himself but, in the case of Slate, the quality of his gear, or rather the perception of that quality, which is heavily influenced by the hype machine, makes it virtually impossible to discuss Slate products without also discussing Mr. Slate himself. The choice to create a cult of personality around his gear was his decision, not anyone else's. Like it or not, that decision means Slate products are likely to be judged on both fronts. It's not a "high school haters club". Steven's comment about that was a cop out. It's about people being legitimately concerned about not letting what happens over on the purple site infect what is happening here. If a discussion of Slate products can be conducted entirely within the confines of real world use, specs, etc. then let's have that discussion. Otherwise, it's a slippery slope down to Gearslutz hell and I know I'm not the only one who doesn't want that to happen.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 20, 2017 21:08:58 GMT -6
Ok. Let's focus on the gear.
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Post by Quint on Jan 20, 2017 21:21:09 GMT -6
Ok. Let's focus on the gear. Agreed
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 21:51:04 GMT -6
This is the first time in a long time I have been disappointed in the quality of the dialog on RGO. Debating the merits of gear, technique and even artistry is one thing, commenting on looks, hype and reality show stars is another. On this forum, we have: Distinguished designers and entrepreneurs (Dan, Langston, jsteiger, Svart), industry icons (Bob O, Dr Bill), world class gear pimps (Ericn), influential writers, players, folks who have worked their asses off to learn something and then share it. Who hasn't learned something from a post by mrholmes, Ragan, jcoutu or MJB? I'm embarrassed because I can't even begin to list all the names and accomplishments and people I have learned from. Forgive me. So now we are joined by another industry icon. Somebody who knows one heck of a lot, has shared it, and who has a history of bringing innovative products to the market, who has built a business (some of us know just how hard that is to do) and been very public with both his successes and mistakes. I own some Slate products, and in the past, when there have been problems, he has personally answered my questions and made things right. I'm not the least bit surprised he would offer to help Martin with FG-X settings. Based on my experience that is typical of him. Has anyone in this thread given him the warm welcome I have seen with dozens of other new arrivals to RGO? Welcome to RGO, Steven! The best audio recording forum on the Web. End of the day, the stuff I'm talking about is irrelevant to Slate as a person.. I've reported issues with three out of the four products since 2011 and most of it hasn't been resolved yet. So when they release a very technical 3K piece of equipment that needs to be rock solid, of course I'm going to be a little reluctant to jump in bed.. Then from a sound perspective, I've found Toontrack to sound far more realistic sounding than SSD and stuff like Ozone / Klanghem / TDR / UA get amazing results with little effort. I've never met a plugin system (like Waves / UAD) that doesn't have hit and miss products sound wise, but for the most part they are great and work well.. If you had that track record with Slate products would you? Would it make sense? I've rarely if ever had issues with plugins, so I found it relatively odd. This isn't the first company I've had issues with products by "insert manufacturer". I actually had a bugera amp that whilst sounded great liked to set itself on fire.. Which I actually think it's rather funny as an anecdote. Sure, I'm blunt as a hammer when I come to descriptions of gear and it's not exactly a popular viewpoint (I have noticed). But end of the day it's all subjective, irrelevant of what you or I say if someone really wants product X they will buy it. But it doesn't mean I should outright lie about my opinion just to appease others, some gear you can't send even send back. Mic's are a good example due to health and safety at a lot of places (apparently), so it's luck of the draw.. You'll find many say oh it sounds great blah blah, then one will put down their honest opinion and years later when I got round to demo'ing said gear (on an off chance) I found they just saved me (insert how many thousands here). I'm thankful some tell it how it is..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 20, 2017 21:59:47 GMT -6
For fun last year, I got the $20 MIC CLONE plug-in from Guage-USA. It was made to compliment their $150 U87 knock-off. Their U87 was a good starter mic for my students. The Mic Clone actually changed things iN an interesting way. It has presets of classic mics, U47, C12, U67, etc. I scrolled through them, and damn if the 67 didn't improve the sound of their mic. The other presets were unusable, but the 67 was definitely an improvement over the plain sound. They came out with another version not specifically designed to pair with the Guage ECM87, but I didn't feel like trying it.
My point is that mic modeling can be a helpful tool in some cases. I'd like to try a few of Slates mic models with my system, and not the VMS, just for fun. If even one mic emulation did something interesting it could be worth it.
I was thinking about this today, and in a way, even though "The Future of Microphones" was a big hype, he may not be wrong, just premature, or ahead of his time, depending how you see it. Slate's not the first to try mic modeling, but it is the first complete and comprehensive mic modeling system made. Given time and improvements in modeling and computer capability, it may very well be the shape of recording in the future. At some point the vintage Neumann will be 100 years old and cost more than a new car. If I thought it really sounded every bit as good, I'd use it. I've listened to all the files that have been posted, and the VMS seems a little flatter and 2 D to me. In my studio, I might feel differently. At the prices listed, it's certainly not a rip off.
I'd love to hear more mano a mano comparisons from guys who own vintage mics. I'd also like to see more Slate events at local dealers where I could try the VMS for myself. Recently I attended a wonderful UAD event held by Alto Music in Brooklyn. It was great fun, engineers, producers and musicians all got to be in a first class studio to hear live music being made through the UAD Apollo system.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 20, 2017 22:04:20 GMT -6
I like that he came out with the components and specs of the interface right off the bat on the purple site. Putting the marketing , latency,and SW aside I'm sure his interface is going to Be top of the line ...No sleazy marketing there... I know specs and components aren't everything but UAD, lynx, and another company i forget are releasing new converters and didn't list any components, chips, or op amps....
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 20, 2017 23:22:30 GMT -6
Quint not sure where your post went, I am not a Slate fan boy ask Steven we have bumped heads a couple times, however I have always complemented his passion, innovation, and drive. I was speaking on the quality of the components that are in the interface. That's why I said SW, marketing, and latency aside... go ask lynx what components they are using for the very pricey new converters.... I'll wait... Specs and components aren't the whole package, the circuit design and implementation is as well... If Slate has Paul Wolff designing with him you know what to expect ( Slate HW ) Let me list the components of the Slate "A/D's are AK5578 from AKM have 124db dynamic range with high end OPA 1612s and WIMA caps and discrete headphone amps". These are found in merging technologies converters "D/A's 123db dynamic range, OPA 1612 amps." I'm guessing for the DA chip -> AK4495 Because that is the only one he hasn't listed... www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK5578EN&link_id=link780
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 20, 2017 23:37:23 GMT -6
Hi Steven, good to see you here.
As you may remember, we haven't always been in agreement about approach in what is possible in the digital realm, but you're always been courteous, intelligent, and willing to discuss. (Too bad that certain mutual friends have not always been so supportive of an open discussion, but things are what they are.)
Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing your contributions.
Dunno what use I'd have for your "vitual recording studio" but I'm looking forward to hearing about it - I'm sure it will find a home with people who can't afford to give up half their house to hardware.
Best wishes for the new year!
-John-
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 20, 2017 23:40:44 GMT -6
ht you made some comment in the autotune thread. can't remember now. :-) Hey gouge didn't take it that way... all cool.... I don't remember making any comment... but then I am 52 8) cheers Wiz Youth is no excuse!
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 21, 2017 0:14:33 GMT -6
I don't remotely dislike Slate's presentations, as a matter of fact I find them quite amusing and I can actually stay awake for a half-hour presentation. I am an adult, I can fairly easily differentiate what I can believe and what I would need to verify. I'm not sure how the "hype machine" makes it virtually impossible to talk about Slate's gear without talking about Slate personally. I just don't get it, and I think his "high school haters club" is appropriate to some of the comments in this thread. There are lots of people with legitimate concerns over some of Slate's products, and they have expressed them in a respectful manner. Others slandering Slate personally and for his passion and marketing techniques I could do without, but hey, it's freedom of speech and I can easily read those comments and ignore them. My past interactions with Steven have always been marked by his civility and willing to discuss issues intelligently, even when I've been in marked disagreement with his ideas and design philosophy. I've made some rather pointed questions about the acoustics/physics involved in certain products (especially the VMS), and Steven has always responded in a thoughful manner, even I I don't always buy his reasoning. I have deep respect for his passion and his willingness top attempt visionary products, regardless of whether I believe in the feasibility - but kudos for the attempt. We'd be in a sorry state if nobody tried to push the boundaries. As to the marketing hype, well, I generally ignore most of it - unlike many people I'm not glued to YooToob. (The good thing about YT hype is that it's pretty easy to ignore it.) I don't use any of his stuff - he STILL hasn't ported it to my Studer platform - but now that I have the Orion I'd love to demo the VMS if only somebody would loan me one for a couple of months. So far most of what I've read from noncommercial sources more or less agrees with my "virtual" evaluation based on the published literature, but I'd love to hear it with my own ears. In my exerience the lack of civility on GS goes back a long, long way and is at least partially exacerbated by the moderation style, which seems calculated to bring in users at any cost. I can't see how Steven has anything to do with it, or even his marketing style. Yes!
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Post by LesC on Jan 21, 2017 0:30:05 GMT -6
As to the marketing hype, well, I generally ignore most of it - unlike many people I'm not glued to YooToob. (The good thing about YT hype is that it's pretty easy to ignore it.) I don't use any of his stuff - he STILL hasn't ported it to my Studer platform - but now that I have the Orion I'd love to demo the VMS if only somebody would loan me one for a couple of months. So far most of what I've read from noncommercial sources more or less agrees with my "virtual" evaluation based on the published literature, but I'd love to hear it with my own ears. I couldn't agree more, if I don't like a company's marketing I ignore it. Why clutter up threads about my pretend rage, making it more time consuming to glean useful information? And I'm sure the Studer port will be available any day now.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 21, 2017 8:05:51 GMT -6
Do you guys want me to clean up the thread?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 21, 2017 8:44:33 GMT -6
So with the SDC, I guess you have to buy the preamp too?
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Post by drew571 on Jan 21, 2017 8:59:30 GMT -6
So with the SDC, I guess you have to buy the preamp too? if you want the mic modeling to be accurate I would guess you need to. otherwise it's just colored by whatever preamp you have or the models will be off.
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Post by stevenslate on Jan 21, 2017 11:36:54 GMT -6
Hi guys, thanks again for the comments. First of all, Shadowamd, if you are having problems with any of our products, I'm here to help. If you send in a ticket at www.slatesupport.com and then tell me the ticket number, I'll make sure it gets transferred to the top of the cue. Next, the marketing we do is driven by our passion, but also by the fact that it's a very crowded market place and we do our best to show why our products deserve to stand out. The VRS-8 presentation was both the hardest and yet most fulfilling presentation I've given to date. It was the longest talk I had to give and I'd never filmed in front of an audience like that. If any of you have done public speaking, you know how challenging it can be. I was actually glad that we had a lot of students in the audience who were enthusiastic about the announcements, and while the applause may have annoyed some of you.. it certainly helped me get through the filming and made me feel more comfortable. But ultimately what was fulfilling about the presentation is that the products that we were debuting were very much a dream come true for me, and I'd imagined this concept for twenty years. At the end of the day I'm just a music creator and gear head like everyone here. Some are saying that we were hyping a lot of things.. and maybe my way of presenting is a bit over the to but my facts are very much real. We went out of the way to discuss what is inside the VRS-8 in great detail, something which our competitors have chosen not to do. And to be frank, I can understand why they chose not to after opening the lids on several units. So yes, we pushed the fact that we are using the best components available, and then we took it a step further to provide REAL audio examples. And I don't consider that hype at all.. what is more important than proving the system's value by hearing the sonic results it can achieve? So therefore, I can understand that not everyone will always love what we do and not love my personal approach, but overall I'm very happy with our brand and every day I wake up wanting to create more whacky ideas that I hope will make your lives in the studio better. Let me know if there are any questions, I'd be glad to answer them. Thanks again for the discussion. Cheers, Steven
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 21, 2017 11:45:29 GMT -6
I got to say this is what I really appreciate about Steven; ( even when he doesn't send me new free gear : he's a stand up guy, who stands behind his opinions, company and products. I have always had excellent CS from Slate employees and from Steven too from time to time !
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 21, 2017 12:25:54 GMT -6
Steven, will Slate ever put out the mic models as plug-ins alone? I'd like to try one or two with my own system.
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