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Post by EmRR on Jan 15, 2017 10:36:07 GMT -6
I do think it's very hard for people who want to make a living as a studio owner when you are competing against people who have well paying jobs who, as a hobby, record bands for next to nothing. This guy is a college professor. His wife also has a good job. Income from music is not important to him. However, he is passionate about what he is doing and is aggressively courting bands. It's just the reality of the situation. Like I said, I really liked him. However, if I wanted to live off my music income I'd be distressed by having to compete with him. I would have to develop tactics to show why paying more was worth it. These people aren't, by definition, 'competitors'. You will free yourself when you start to see it that way, it's apples to oranges. If the job isn't yours to have because they want apples and you sell oranges, so be it. Truth is, eventually it will become obvious to some why they aren't competitors, reasons vary, can be as simple as 'can't meet the schedule needs, can only work weekends 10-5'. 'Can't handle all the tech involved'. Etc. Truth is, I have very few 'competitors'. I take them seriously, and consider relative positioning. There is an infinite list of 'non-competitor' hobbyist types bleeding away potential projects. I can't do much of anything about them beyond doing the good work I aspire to do, and hope it gets heard and makes a difference.
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Post by jjinvegas on Jan 15, 2017 10:51:03 GMT -6
I really think that if you are going to stand out, you have to have some auxiliary skill set to offer. Or a lot of them, more likely. I get gigs because I can hack up a combo emulation in short order, handy for songwriters. Others I sort of do a fair amount of writing for, as I find that I can finish things that get started lots easier than may be common, it is sort of like crossword puzzles to me, so that comes in handy a lot. And I had the good fortune of some credits that helped with certain genres for bona fides. But the most important skillset you can learn is how to be someone that people like to hang with a bit, being a coolio mack elegant slacker long-time rocker dude is super helpful, And confronting lots of different challenges that are outside what you might think would be the norm gives you some perspective when things go sideways. If you react negatively, or let them see you are frustrated, it is highly contagious. Far better to be "What, Me Worry?" Newman, keep it nice and slightly chilled out so that your coaching and shaping (inevitable if you are doing your job) looks less like Mussolini and more like just having fun with songs. They aren't going to know you have been using that same relative minor move for a variation for decades, it is all new to them.....smile.....cheers
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 15, 2017 11:06:37 GMT -6
I didn't just walk into where I am today - I spent a couple decades paying my dues and slugging it out like everyone else. I'm no trust funder. Grew up poor and stayed poor most of my life due to LA living expenses, a family and a studio addiction problem. These days I haven't lost touch with the "trenches", I've made a conscious decision to LEAVE them. Paying your dues 30 years ago vs today are wildly different. Back when, you could start as an intern, put in some time, and work your way up. Bands had budgets, studios had staff, and there was money in the industry. Today, things are a bit different. There are so many kids graduating from audio programs and less and less paying jobs available in big studios. Even if you start as an intern (all unpaid, however anyone can afford that is beyond me) somewhere, there is no position to work up to. You put in your 6 months, then the studio brings on another intern and you gotta punt because there is no salary available for an assistant. You obviously made the right connections along the way and it's kept you afloat with more gigs coming in. It's obviously not your audio demos or marketing that's getting you the gigs, so yeah, I think you're out of touch with the trenches.
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Post by drbill on Jan 15, 2017 11:38:25 GMT -6
I didn't just walk into where I am today - I spent a couple decades paying my dues and slugging it out like everyone else. I'm no trust funder. Grew up poor and stayed poor most of my life due to LA living expenses, a family and a studio addiction problem. These days I haven't lost touch with the "trenches", I've made a conscious decision to LEAVE them. Paying your dues 30 years ago vs today are wildly different. Back when, you could start as an intern, put in some time, and work your way up. Bands had budgets, studios had staff, and there was money in the industry. Today, things are a bit different. There are so many kids graduating from audio programs and less and less paying jobs available in big studios. Even if you start as an intern (all unpaid, however anyone can afford that is beyond me) somewhere, there is no position to work up to. You put in your 6 months, then the studio brings on another intern and you gotta punt because there is no salary available for an assistant. You obviously made the right connections along the way and it's kept you afloat with more gigs coming in. It's obviously not your audio demos or marketing that's getting you the gigs, so yeah, I think you're out of touch with the trenches. I agree completely. I kinda think that's what I said.... I'm very sad that the industry has changed as much as it has. Things are not a "bit" different, they are wildly different. But it is what it is. You adapt or die. I wouldn't want to be an up and comer in this era of the biz. I can't count the number of times I've had to reinvent myself in this biz. If you can't pull that off, your long term prognosis is not good. You're right - I haven't put up new demos in almost 15 years, and marketing wise I don't have to go out and try. But I still understand frustration and bad attitudes. Been there, done that, moved on.... It's not good for anyones creative spirit, and creativity is the backbone of music.
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Post by drbill on Jan 15, 2017 11:46:17 GMT -6
If you react negatively, or let them see you are frustrated, it is highly contagious. Far better to be "What, Me Worry?" Start - THIS ^^^ is what I was trying to say. jj gets it. Making yourself invaluable to any (and every) project is the key to success and longevity. If your clients say "we can't do this without bob, hank or tom" (fill your name in the blank) then that causes repeat business and new clients coming in from referrals. If you have a downer attitude, or frustrated attitude, or I'm better than you attitude - that will eek it's way out when you least expect it - even if you think you are hiding it well. It's happened to me, and I've paid the price for it. I think it happens to all of us. Part of the gig. Guarding against that and making yourself invaluable is key.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 15, 2017 11:54:32 GMT -6
I agree completely. I kinda think that's what I said.... I'm very sad that the industry has changed as much as it has. But it is what it is. You adapt or die. I wouldn't want to be an up and comer in this era of the biz. I can't count the number of times I've had to reinvent myself in this biz. If you can't pull that off, your long term prognosis is not good. Yep. The classic Nashville story is always about the guy with a production Grammy who's bagging groceries 2 years later. Mitch Easter who did early REM records is close by, he had a run a few years back of no work at all, had to re-invent. No one cares what I did 5 years ago, or 2 years ago, let alone 10 years ago. So in that regard, we are in the trenches, maybe we've just seen more of it. There are no guarantees. True, maybe we saw a time when people expected to pay something, but that doesn't translate to it 'being a living'. There was always a guy who'd do it for free or nearly nothing, believe me. Actually, I used to say the only guarantee I had in any given year was there'd be a solid 2 months with no work, at some point in the year. Over 22 years in my market, this has remained true on average. There've been years with 6 months of no work. Doesn't matter I've had records in iTunes top 10, it's old news.
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Post by svart on Jan 15, 2017 12:29:30 GMT -6
If you react negatively, or let them see you are frustrated, it is highly contagious. Far better to be "What, Me Worry?" Start - THIS ^^^ is what I was trying to say. jj gets it. Making yourself invaluable to any (and every) project is the key to success and longevity. If your clients say "we can't do this without bob, hank or tom" (fill your name in the blank) then that causes repeat business and new clients coming in from referrals. If you have a downer attitude, or frustrated attitude, or I'm better than you attitude - that will eek it's way out when you least expect it - even if you think you are hiding it well. It's happened to me, and I've paid the price for it. I think it happens to all of us. Part of the gig. Guarding against that and making yourself invaluable is key. I never said that I had a bad attitude towards the client. I just vented here, in confidence. I always portray myself as upbeat and confident towards the client. That was you that assumed that I must be that way towards the bands because I complained about the way things are on here. Tell me that you've never vented to a coworker about your boss, or whatever.. But make no mistake, the customer IS the boss in this line of work. But the circular logic you have is that you have to be confident and invaluable when working on projects in order to keep getting projects.. But you have to be getting them to be invaluable and all that. Chicken and egg.. And we're running out of eggs to hatch chickens. Almost all my clients in the last couple years have been repeats or their friends, but bands come and go, and getting new bands in as the older ones break up has become harder and harder with all the competition from extreme low-cost bedroom studios and/or the DIY crowd. I told you, EVERY band I hear from says two things: 1. "I heard what you did for ______ and I love it." 2. "How much to record?" And usually followed up with "oh, that's a lot more than we were hoping.. I think we might just record ourselves then". Even folks like CLA have turned towards other markets, like videos that pander to that same DIY crowd and their belief that everything is "easy" and they can watch a few videos and become experts. He sells it, because he still has some kinetic energy in the industry and he doesn't have to worry about when the next band will come around.. But I can tell by the increase in how-to vids from the pros, that their business is slacking off. Nobody goes on a tangent to their core business unless that core is dying. It's sad though, because their grab at staying relevant with videos is hastening the demise of recording because it's just helping the folks watching their vids believe that they can just grab some plugins and a MAC and they're good to go. I think you're just in a totally different world and you don't see it because you don't have to.
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Post by ericn on Jan 15, 2017 12:35:36 GMT -6
The thing is there has always been the guy who will do it for free, the difference is today his tools give him the capeability of producing a decent product, the difference is having the ability to do it!
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Post by drbill on Jan 15, 2017 12:39:52 GMT -6
Svart - I mentioned earlier that I've had similar thoughts, and that I think it goes part and parcel with the gig. I also said that if it's how you FEEL (frustrated, angry), deep down, then it will almost certainly become apparent to your clients. It's certainly apparent here. As I also mentioned, it's something that I've had to deal with, and something that I think most of us do. Denying it only exacerbates it. Changing your attitude is where things start to change for those you work with. It will make more of a difference than any piece of gear. If the "reality" you try to compete against in isn't for you, then switch things up. You won't be changing reality anytime soon, and no piece of gear will change that. Best of luck. if you think I don't go up against "oh that's more than we were hoping to spend", all I can say is : We ALL have to deal with that. The value of music overall in every segment and every niche of the industry has been seriously degraded. If they tell you "ummm, I think we might record it ourselves then", agree with them and wish them the best, tell them you're available to help if they hit a snag and let them know that you are available to make their project the best it can be if things go sideways - instead of dissing DIY, another $10 and hour studio they bring up or bemoaning the fact that you lost a gig. If they don't have the money, or don't want to spend what it takes to record with you, it's a project you don't want. Being positive brings positivity into your work life. You may TOTALLY be like this in person, I have no idea, but it's worth saying in an industry that's financially decimated and littered with so many people bemoaning the cold hard realities of working in 2017. Like I said earlier, reinvent yourself, adapt or die. It's being played out over and over. The reason I bring these thing up is not because I see people making a mistake while I've got it right and I like to be judgmental It's because I've lived it, made the mistakes (many times), figured out what it took for me to move on, and changed. If it doesn't resonate with you, please discard.
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Post by Bender on Jan 15, 2017 12:53:24 GMT -6
$10 an hour..... That's what it's come to now. I've never and I mean even when I was an intern made less than $25 an hour and that was in someone else's studio. Shit I'm jealous, I interned at CRC in Chicago & a hipster talent booking agency- commuted from the suburbs for over an hour paying out of pocket for transportation & lunch; FOR ZERO. Ended up getting canned cause I was late during a snow storm ONCE. I'm telling you the times have changed as Bill & others have mentioned there's little to no growth....but nepotism is still alive & well. But everyone's totally right 10 bucks an hour is hardly worth it, babysitters make more. Its embarrassing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 15:10:08 GMT -6
You can complain about the new realities, or adapt or punt. Adapt to what? The music industry here is dead and buried, it doesn't exist.. It all stems from artist's not getting paid due to mass saturation, next to no live revenue and no actual interest in a resurgance. If artists don't get paid, studio's don't get paid and it's as simple as that. What does it say about the industry when some of the biggest rock and metal bands in Europe still have day jobs? These guys have contacts, they are generally signed to some major labels, they are generally talented beyond belief and playing instruments isn't an issue. From what I know of the Film and TV industry around here it's mainly all in house and they only need a finite amount of engineers, I know a couple who did well out of it though you're playing the lottery to hold out for a position. I'm glad some places are still semi-thriving, although it always seems a matter of time in creative ventures. The games industry is going down the exact same route at the moment, since everything went Steam and they opened the flood gates to Indie's it's been a race to the bottom ever since. In terms of sheer revenue the games industry is one of the largest creative / entertainment industries out there, but it's struggling. At some point even people selling the shovels (tools) get's saturated, look at how many different options we have today. It will also end up in a race to the bottom. I'm not complaining, I accepted the reality of it years ago and as music is my major passion I'm going to see how far I can get. But I'm under no illusions I'd ever become rich out of it.. I've chased the money rainbow, now it's time to just have fun with it.
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Post by jjinvegas on Jan 15, 2017 17:21:15 GMT -6
You can complain about the new realities, or adapt or punt. Adapt to what? The music industry here is dead and buried, it doesn't exist.. It all stems from artist's not getting paid due to mass saturation, next to no live revenue and no actual interest in a resurgance. If artists don't get paid, studio's don't get paid and it's as simple as that. There is always going to be people coming up with a need to record. But I didn't say exactly what adapt might mean, it might mean finding something else to occupy your time. I sold all my gear in 1992 after a demonstration of the ADAT, so I have been sort of ahead of the curve on what may come. Oddly enough, after I started free-lancing I was the busiest I had ever been, to the point where I could have booked myself 20 hours a day, 7 days a week. But it came with a price, I had nightmares (seriously) about NS-10s and Mackie monitors, my ears would actually turn red, and I eventually took a sabbatical that turned into a decade-long re-assessment. I had been preparing to produce records since I was in eighth grade, learning how to play every combo instrument, fooling around with tape recorders, and listening, always listening. You know, it is kind of interesting how even smart people get confused when they see someone who can do something, and assume they have talent. Instead of recognizing the hundreds of hours some pursuits involve to become fairly accomplished. It is why I often smile when I see posts on this and similar sites where conjecture has replaced actual experiences. Because unless you are willing to become totally immersed, and risk all comfort for an unconventional path that may lead nowhere, you just are not going to know if you can really get there. Those who do and stick are always going to work, if they can keep the passion they had when they first heard voltage moving cardboard. Most of the people who have the gift, however, also can do many other things, and many find that their needs are better met in other fields. Adapt......
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 18:06:36 GMT -6
Adapt to what? The music industry here is dead and buried, it doesn't exist.. It all stems from artist's not getting paid due to mass saturation, next to no live revenue and no actual interest in a resurgance. If artists don't get paid, studio's don't get paid and it's as simple as that. There is always going to be people coming up with a need to record. But I didn't say exactly what adapt might mean, it might mean finding something else to occupy your time. I sold all my gear in 1992 after a demonstration of the ADAT, so I have been sort of ahead of the curve on what may come. Oddly enough, after I started free-lancing I was the busiest I had ever been, to the point where I could have booked myself 20 hours a day, 7 days a week. But it came with a price, I had nightmares (seriously) about NS-10s and Mackie monitors, my ears would actually turn red, and I eventually took a sabbatical that turned into a decade-long re-assessment. I had been preparing to produce records since I was in eighth grade, learning how to play every combo instrument, fooling around with tape recorders, and listening, always listening. You know, it is kind of interesting how even smart people get confused when they see someone who can do something, and assume they have talent. Instead of recognizing the hundreds of hours some pursuits involve to become fairly accomplished. It is why I often smile when I see posts on this and similar sites where conjecture has replaced actual experiences. Because unless you are willing to become totally immersed, and risk all comfort for an unconventional path that may lead nowhere, you just are not going to know if you can really get there. Those who do and stick are always going to work, if they can keep the passion they had when they first heard voltage moving cardboard. Most of the people who have the gift, however, also can do many other things, and many find that their needs are better met in other fields. Adapt...... That's pure conjecture, it doesn't answer the question posed and it's an amalgamation of words irrelevant to current times. I was extremely busy from 2002 onwards taking on anything I could (FOH work, mixing, recording, technical analysis work, audio support, gigging whilst at college) and it's all dissapeared into the ether. Look, I'm trying to waz on anybody's corn flakes here but anecdotes and positive thinking does in no way shape or form equate to a decent business plan. You say there's always the need to record, ok, sure and they do that by buying a $100.00 interface with a $100.00 microphone. Sing covers of well known songs and stick it up in youtube to gain more success than they ever would recording with you and their own original material. So from any depths of logical reasoning why would they come to you? You must of missed the part where even well known bands in Europe have day jobs, they can't survive off the money that rolls in from music alone. How does "adapting" bring back all the shut down live venue's? How does "adapting" bring money into artists pockets so they can spend it on your studio, when they recieve no actual revenue in todays markets? Even the pro audio shops round here don't EVEN SELL pro audio gear, because they straight up said there is no demand for it. It's all relatively cheap stuff bought by college students.. I mean how much has to happen before you take the hint? I'm not jaded about the whole affair, it was fun whilst it lasted and if I could find a sure fire way of entering the music industry whilst retaining a modicum of stability there would be no decision to make.
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Post by wiz on Jan 15, 2017 18:08:36 GMT -6
until, you can make money for people listening to your music, again.... .nothing will change.
I actually think, its over.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 15, 2017 22:02:37 GMT -6
Man, I just couldn't read every line of these posts, because the actual question bugged me so much. If someone can charge $10 an hours for services, clearly, it's for other reasons than income. Maybe he wants to build a reputation, maybe get his chops together before raising prices, maybe he's a wanna be and that's the only way he can get people interested, who knows.
Swurveman, I've enjoyed your posts, so I can offer you this, don't become an ambulance chaser, find your passion, and make it work on your terms. There is no actual competition if what you do is unique in some form. The real difficulty is differentiating yourself from the herd. Are you actually better than most others at your price point? If you are, prove it. Get a great band, record a great song or two, bust your balls on it for beer money, but post it everywhere, send it to bands, show it to people, and things will happen. If you do it really well, people will come. Good luck.
That said, I'm trying to figure out my own version of this dilemma. Recently I was paid $300 for a job I would have gotten over $4,000 for in the late 80's, and I was glad for the work. Where this will land, I don't know, but without proper copyright protection, all the arts will fail soon. My friend had 1.6 million downloads of his song and got a $45 check. Until those streaming services are required to pay a fair royalty, the dream may be over for most of us.
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Post by jjinvegas on Jan 15, 2017 22:19:11 GMT -6
That's pure conjecture, it doesn't answer the question posed and it's an amalgamation of words irrelevant to current times. I was extremely busy from 2002 onwards taking on anything I could (FOH work, mixing, recording, technical analysis work, audio support, gigging whilst at college) and it's all dissapeared into the ether. Look, I'm trying to waz on anybody's corn flakes here but anecdotes and positive thinking does in no way shape or form equate to a decent business plan. You say there's always the need to record, ok, sure and they do that by buying a $100.00 interface with a $100.00 microphone. Sing covers of well known songs and stick it up in youtube to gain more success than they ever would recording with you and their own original material. So from any depths of logical reasoning why would they come to you? You must of missed the part where even well known bands in Europe have day jobs, they can't survive off the money that rolls in from music alone. How does "adapting" bring back all the shut down live venue's? How does "adapting" bring money into artists pockets so they can spend it on your studio, when they recieve no actual revenue in todays markets? Even the pro audio shops round here don't EVEN SELL pro audio gear, because they straight up said there is no demand for it. It's all relatively cheap stuff bought by college students.. I mean how much has to happen before you take the hint? I'm not jaded about the whole affair, it was fun whilst it lasted and if I could find a sure fire way of entering the music industry whilst retaining a modicum of stability there would be no decision to make. Well, I opened up my first studio in 1981. so I have maybe a different perspective and expectation. I owned four different places, and never had a listed telephone number for any of them, and I would get phone calls from people who passed my phone number along. Before relocating here in Nevada i had places in Kansas City, and I had clients who would come from Chicago, eight hundred miles away, St. Louis, about 250, even Nashville. We are not talking some fancy pants Studer/Neve/SSL type place, far more modest, okay basically shitholes. It really had less to do with audio than it did with music, I identify what is special or unique about someone and then showcase that. When something isn't completely baked, I have numerous ovens I can call upon. I have helped lots of people get noticed, small deals and such, sometimes bigger. I made low-budget records that got national release. I get into the bones of their songs, I am a producer. You can't buy that from Amazon or Guitar Center. Here is the song i wrote yesterday, finished it up earlier today, sort of rocks... clyp.it/nnqtdhm0
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Post by ericn on Jan 15, 2017 22:43:16 GMT -6
until, you can make money for people listening to your music, again.... .nothing will change. I actually think, its over. cheers Wiz Yes and no, the music Buisness people have to understand what a small part of the entertainment world direct consumption of music is! The world of Gaming is a new frontier, As A for V has always been bigger than the general music world is Music for Video has to be re-examined as a income stream! Yes it is a new world and as much as we need to change it we to must change!
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Post by drbill on Jan 15, 2017 22:48:16 GMT -6
I am the only "me" out there. (I'm sure many of you are glad about that ) But it's a fact. No one can replace my unique skill set exactly the way I do it. Not JJ, not Svart, not anyone else. And I can't replace them either. So that's what I sell. Anyone can duplicate my studio or gear given the time and money, but no one can do what I do in the unique and often unorthodox ways I do it. No one is going to think or analyze a situation the exact way I will. And that can't be bought at GC. So that's what I sell. Find what is unique about you - location, attitude, musicianship, experience, connections, writing skill, production esthetic, the unique way you blend coffee's - whatever.... And sell THAT! Sometimes you have to be a better salesman than studio engineer. Actually - for me at least - it's always harder than the gig. But I guess that depends on the gig. BTW, I started in on that direction when everyone started building their own studios. All my clients wanted me to come to THEM to engineer. ME. Not someone else. Oh, and they wanted me to bring some gear with me too. Who knows why, I guess they trusted me. Hahahaha!!! Fools. j/k But leaving my studio vacant, getting twisted up in heavy LA traffic traveling across townl was a groove killer for me on several aspects. Lost time while driving, lost income cause they wanted a lower rate cause they weren't using my "studio" only me, and more time away from home and the family. So I switched things up. I did say they wanted ME to travel, right?? So I started giving studio time away for FREE, but started charging $65-80 and hour for ME - with my studio at my location - or without. Travel got billed as wel. It was amazing how we ended up working the majority of the time back at my place after I did that. My income went back up and that bit of outside the box thinking got things straightened out and back on track. Now, all that said, I'm not sure how that would work in 2017. Things have continued to degrade from 5 years ago. But you gotta think outside the box and sell what no one else has or can buy - i.e.: you, your experience, and your credits.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 23:19:57 GMT -6
Well, I opened up my first studio in 1981. so I have maybe a different perspective and expectation. I owned four different places, and never had a listed telephone number for any of them, and I would get phone calls from people who passed my phone number along. Before relocating here in Nevada i had places in Kansas City, and I had clients who would come from Chicago, eight hundred miles away, St. Louis, about 250, even Nashville. We are not talking some fancy pants Studer/Neve/SSL type place, far more modest, okay basically shitholes. It really had less to do with audio than it did with music, I identify what is special or unique about someone and then showcase that. When something isn't completely baked, I have numerous ovens I can call upon. I have helped lots of people get noticed, small deals and such, sometimes bigger. I made low-budget records that got national release. I get into the bones of their songs, I am a producer. You can't buy that from Amazon or Guitar Center. Here is the song i wrote yesterday, finished it up earlier today, sort of rocks... clyp.it/nnqtdhm0I'm not even sure what to say, I mean none of the points I touched on has any "real" relevance to what you're saying. But if nothing else, I am glad you're rocking it. Not being facetious at all, I've nothing to gain out of being negative as someone who wants the music industry to thrive. Between myself and svart we've already explained it cyclically, it's a chicken and egg scenario. ericnNope, games is a goose that is thoroughly cooked already and it's far from a new venture. They opened assets stores to provide music / SFX, began a rat race and now that's all bottom dollar stuff as well, IF you can get in with one of the now few (after the credit crunch) AAA outfits you might be ok for a little while (maybe)..
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 23:34:11 GMT -6
drbill Do you honestly think that all these major studio's shut down because they couldn't do a decent pitch? I mean there's hundreds of them that survived years of ups and downs to be finally taken down by this decade.
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Post by rowmat on Jan 16, 2017 0:58:18 GMT -6
We seem to attract a certain ecletic genre of musicians whose music we like and they, in turn, like what we do with their music.
I'm not sure exactly what the formula is but no doubt not having to take on anything and everything just to pay rent (which we don't) means we can concentrate on recording music we like and that seems to filter out into the ether and the next thing we get a call from this person or that band etc. and another round of sessions begins.
We don't work every day of the week in the studio (we both have other things we do) but it's a good balance.
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Post by jjinvegas on Jan 16, 2017 4:12:53 GMT -6
I guess what I am trying to convey is that there are other ways to use a recording skill set that are less dependent on whether or not bands have day jobs. Actually, I prefer they have day jobs, they are more likely to have some money to record. That passive "set up the mics and run the board" approach is too easy to emulate by a newcomer with a GC credit card. You are going to have to offer something else. Adapt, or punt. It is not who came first, chicken or egg, it is called breaking eggs to make a different omelette. Most traditional places were loathe to get into the sandbox and get involved with composition and affecting someone's music, it was risky and messy. But lots more fun than mixing in a forever twilight control room, at least for me....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 5:44:05 GMT -6
I guess what I am trying to convey is that there are other ways to use a recording skill set that are less dependent on whether or not bands have day jobs. Actually, I prefer they have day jobs, they are more likely to have some money to record. That passive "set up the mics and run the board" approach is too easy to emulate by a newcomer with a GC credit card. You are going to have to offer something else. Adapt, or punt. It is not who came first, chicken or egg, it is called breaking eggs to make a different omelette. Most traditional places were loathe to get into the sandbox and get involved with composition and affecting someone's music, it was risky and messy. But lots more fun than mixing in a forever twilight control room, at least for me.... It's not really about bands having "day jobs", it's obvious meaning is that even large bands can't make a full time job out of it. Hence there is no money in it, then the rest reads like a self help book, either I'm doing a bad job explaining or you're not getting it. There's nothing to adapt to, not in songwriting, not in publications, not in live venues, not really even in film / tv, games etc. It all went the way of the dodo after a race to the bottom.. It is chicken and egg, because you can't adapt to something that does not exist.!! The US isn't where we're at yet, I've worked with quite a few US branches of audio equipment manufacturers and they constantly tell me that they're going to gig's / this that and the other. But from some GS members I keep getting told it's on the decline, even some of the music hub city's. When they start asking you to pay at venue's you're in trouble. The large summation of "artists" buy cheap gear, record and stick it up on youtube. They do copies of famous songs en mass to get noticed, they shy away generally from original material and even then all the modern bands that do write there own stuff, they mix, they master and they promote.. All because unless you want to earn $20.00 a track, it's cheaper for them not to use you and there's no on-clock time pressures, you can take a scratch track to completion all in the comfort of your own house. There's one major trend in technology, if it's convenient it's going to win and in a warped way I can kind of see where they're coming from. There is only so much one will compromise before it's deemed not worth it, in terms of financial stability / amount of pay nearly most industries beat music and in some of them you can literally earn a fortune. If you want to make a decent $, then do what I originally said.. Sell the shovels, lot's of "home studios" and musicians buy audio equipment stuff en mass. Reason I'm engaged in this thread is because I keep throwing back to nostalgic days and wonder if it's worth having another go, this is the type of argument that goes on in my head every time I have this idea .. Anyway, it was a good debate and I'll let you fine gentleman / ladies continue from here on out.. I'm not just being a PITA for the sake of it, it's great to debate it out and see where things stand and see if there's something I haven't thought of yet. I enjoyed it!.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 6:04:13 GMT -6
Does seem a bit bleak, had my fun back in the day and tbh wouldn't want to work every Thurs, Fri and Sat nights (and Sunday lunchtimes) now. I think the Pro's are fighting back - vinyl is now outselling other mediums here ( at almost twice the price vs CD!) so people will still pay for music. It kinda feels like the next big movement is coming, the politico - economic situations always seem to inspire something. Maybe not on the scale of the sixties or late 70's or even early nineties, but it definitely feels like the music world is holding it's breath. Big Bang needed!
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Post by indiehouse on Jan 16, 2017 9:00:58 GMT -6
Swurveman, I've enjoyed your posts, so I can offer you this, don't become an ambulance chaser, find your passion, and make it work on your terms. There is no actual competition if what you do is unique in some form. The real difficulty is differentiating yourself from the herd. Are you actually better than most others at your price point? If you are, prove it. Get a great band, record a great song or two, bust your balls on it for beer money, but post it everywhere, send it to bands, show it to people, and things will happen. If you do it really well, people will come. Good luck. Actually, I think the general gist of the posts have been that this doesn't work anymore.
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