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Post by wiz on Jan 12, 2017 16:51:59 GMT -6
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Post by illacov on Jan 12, 2017 17:25:22 GMT -6
I thought the idea was for me to see if Zulu can match Noah's MM1200? I can pass your mix through Zulu for looksies of course but it would be out of context in regards to seeing we can get close to the Ampex sound. I'll pass it now for ya though. But I want to hear the Ampex print too! Thanks -L.
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Post by wiz on Jan 12, 2017 17:29:29 GMT -6
I thought the idea was for me to see if Zulu can match Noah's MM1200? I can pass your mix through Zulu for looksies of course but it would be out of context in regards to seeing we can get close to the Ampex sound. I'll pass it now for ya though. But I want to hear the Ampex print too! Thanks -L. That's a great idea! Thanks bud Cheers Wiz
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Post by illacov on Jan 12, 2017 19:37:05 GMT -6
Printing passes of Zulu. Thanks -L.
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Post by jjinvegas on Jan 12, 2017 20:49:28 GMT -6
As a thankfully liberated owner of Ampex 350,354,440, Sculley 280B, MCI JH10-16trk, MCI JH-24, 3M-M79 two inch and half inch, Otari, Tascam, and worked on every other conceiveable pro machine, Stephens, Studer, Aces, IMHO you could roll the whole lot off the dock in the bay and I would say, be sure to tie a rope on those boat anchors in case of strong winds. Anybody priced an MRL reference tape lately? Every nickel a client spends on tape is a nickel you didn't get, and their budget becomes your money, why spend it on tape when what they really need is more time to perfect their art. If you want to do something really great with your money, consider it merely as time. Find the MOST IMPORTANT AND INFLUENTIAL ARTIST IN YOUR AREA AND RECORD THEM FOR FREE. Spare no effort to do something undeniably awesome, with the agreement that financial considerations are private between you and artist. Local band scenes are monkey see, monkey do, and then monkeys break up and form new monkey outfits that remember who did them a solid. You may also gain the patronage of said artist and as this is completely a people business they tend to go where they feel comfortable and confident about the result. This small act of self-promotion disguised as goodwill will take about as much time as wiring up and going through the various miseries of whichever museum piece you might decide on, and will be LOTS MORE FUN. If you really think that there is some kind of magic in oxide, there is really no need to have more than a full track quarter inch machine, as you are not locked into linear limitations. You can send the kick and snare to a tape recorder and saturate to your heart's content, and fly it back. The Ampex machines from yesteryear were locked into 60 hz for their motor speed, they had no VSO option bult in, so they are not prone to drift as long as your power compamy is steadfast, and you clean the pinch roller now and then, so fly in, fly out, very little if any messing around with makrers or stretching necessary. Or you could do a very honest appraisal of your local market and decide how much work is being paid for, why you don't get more of it,(if you aren't) and consider what busier places (assuming they exist) are doing that you aren't. I checked out your work, fidelity isn't your issue, btw, Lines get blurred in various recording shacks, what we are ultimately selling is help. Sometimes that help is just making someone feel good about what they do, sometimes it is helping someone with their song, or intonating their instrument, or coming up with that missing chord that clicks the song into gear, or fill in your own blank here___________ Cheers!!!!
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Post by gar381 on Jan 12, 2017 23:16:00 GMT -6
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Post by gouge on Jan 12, 2017 23:31:16 GMT -6
i think svart is more than up for the maintenance..
after reading this thread i'm back on the hunt for an otari MX-5050.
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Post by noah shain on Jan 13, 2017 0:03:59 GMT -6
Okay. The 440b 1/4" 2 track and the mm1000 2" 16track (for my money the best sounding machine) are both set up. I can run the mix on those 2 tomorrow. I don't have any new tape at the studio but I have some not TOO old ATR.
It's not my favorite tape but it's all I have right now. The ATR doesn't really do the tape compression thing like older stock. I did just order a big pile of rmgi 468 which will do the familiar tape compression.
So should I run it tomorrow on ATR or wait till next week to do it on the 468?
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Post by wiz on Jan 13, 2017 0:13:45 GMT -6
Okay. The 440b 1/4" 2 track and the mm1000 2" 16track (for my money the best sounding machine) are both set up. I can run the mix on those 2 tomorrow. I don't have any new tape at the studio but I have some not TOO old ATR. It's not my favorite tape but it's all I have right now. The ATR doesn't really do the tape compression thing like older stock. I did just order a big pile of rmgi 468 which will do the familiar tape compression. So should I run it tomorrow on ATR or wait till next week to do it on the 468? If it's not too cheeky of me...... Both? 8) Cheers Wiz
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Post by noah shain on Jan 13, 2017 0:36:07 GMT -6
Okay. The 440b 1/4" 2 track and the mm1000 2" 16track (for my money the best sounding machine) are both set up. I can run the mix on those 2 tomorrow. I don't have any new tape at the studio but I have some not TOO old ATR. It's not my favorite tape but it's all I have right now. The ATR doesn't really do the tape compression thing like older stock. I did just order a big pile of rmgi 468 which will do the familiar tape compression. So should I run it tomorrow on ATR or wait till next week to do it on the 468? If it's not too cheeky of me...... Both? 8) Cheers Wiz Yeah that'll be no big deal. I'll do the ATR tomorrow. But svart !! Don't let anyone talk you OUT of an ampex machine. It will be a tape machine you can hear!! Nothing transparent about it. Your tape clients will get their $$ worth and if you're anything like me...you'll miss it the minute you record without it.
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Post by noah shain on Jan 13, 2017 0:38:54 GMT -6
Just cause... Here's my babies imgur.com/a/ueKl4Sorry. I don't know how to post the actual picture
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Post by illacov on Jan 13, 2017 0:40:34 GMT -6
Link for the Zulu passes on The Blue Green Ball by Wiz, I completed. Tried some darker settings, smoove. I went full passive for this test, no preamp driving or making up gain. Settings were Deck to HI, Bias to 3 clicks from (+), Enhance was at 50% and Headroom set to HI. Calibration was HX mode. drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B2zRvlWLux2ZN1hUWlRIV1BtZVE?usp=sharingI would love to do more tests, I can swing some brighter passes tumurra. But I want to hear what the Ampex sounds like already. Maybe it will be worthy of its own preset or Zulu? Can't find that out til you give me some audio. Thanks -L.
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Post by scumbum on Jan 13, 2017 0:48:30 GMT -6
As a thankfully liberated owner of Ampex 350,354,440, Sculley 280B, MCI JH10-16trk, MCI JH-24, 3M-M79 two inch and half inch, Otari, Tascam, and worked on every other conceiveable pro machine, Stephens, Studer, Aces, IMHO you could roll the whole lot off the dock in the bay and I would say, be sure to tie a rope on those boat anchors in case of strong winds. Anybody priced an MRL reference tape lately? Every nickel a client spends on tape is a nickel you didn't get, and their budget becomes your money, why spend it on tape when what they really need is more time to perfect their art. If you want to do something really great with your money, consider it merely as time. Find the MOST IMPORTANT AND INFLUENTIAL ARTIST IN YOUR AREA AND RECORD THEM FOR FREE. Spare no effort to do something undeniably awesome, with the agreement that financial considerations are private between you and artist. Local band scenes are monkey see, monkey do, and then monkeys break up and form new monkey outfits that remember who did them a solid. You may also gain the patronage of said artist and as this is completely a people business they tend to go where they feel comfortable and confident about the result. This small act of self-promotion disguised as goodwill will take about as much time as wiring up and going through the various miseries of whichever museum piece you might decide on, and will be LOTS MORE FUN. If you really think that there is some kind of magic in oxide, there is really no need to have more than a full track quarter inch machine, as you are not locked into linear limitations. You can send the kick and snare to a tape recorder and saturate to your heart's content, and fly it back. The Ampex machines from yesteryear were locked into 60 hz for their motor speed, they had no VSO option bult in, so they are not prone to drift as long as your power compamy is steadfast, and you clean the pinch roller now and then, so fly in, fly out, very little if any messing around with makrers or stretching necessary. Or you could do a very honest appraisal of your local market and decide how much work is being paid for, why you don't get more of it,(if you aren't) and consider what busier places (assuming they exist) are doing that you aren't. I checked out your work, fidelity isn't your issue, btw, Lines get blurred in various recording shacks, what we are ultimately selling is help. Sometimes that help is just making someone feel good about what they do, sometimes it is helping someone with their song, or intonating their instrument, or coming up with that missing chord that clicks the song into gear, or fill in your own blank here___________ Cheers!!!! Good advice , Thats what I did back when I was wanting to record for a living . I'd go to clubs , find local bands that I liked and told them I'd like to record them for free because I loved their music . Then you become part of the scene , word of mouth gets you more gigs and later return customers . Also made flyers to hand out at shows , talked to bands .....got out there and made it happen . I also focused on recording bands Live down at the clubs . Using splitters and some of my own mics then giving it a quick mix the next day and handing them a CD .
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Post by svart on Jan 13, 2017 8:36:31 GMT -6
As a thankfully liberated owner of Ampex 350,354,440, Sculley 280B, MCI JH10-16trk, MCI JH-24, 3M-M79 two inch and half inch, Otari, Tascam, and worked on every other conceiveable pro machine, Stephens, Studer, Aces, IMHO you could roll the whole lot off the dock in the bay and I would say, be sure to tie a rope on those boat anchors in case of strong winds. Anybody priced an MRL reference tape lately? Every nickel a client spends on tape is a nickel you didn't get, and their budget becomes your money, why spend it on tape when what they really need is more time to perfect their art. If you want to do something really great with your money, consider it merely as time. Find the MOST IMPORTANT AND INFLUENTIAL ARTIST IN YOUR AREA AND RECORD THEM FOR FREE. Spare no effort to do something undeniably awesome, with the agreement that financial considerations are private between you and artist. Local band scenes are monkey see, monkey do, and then monkeys break up and form new monkey outfits that remember who did them a solid. You may also gain the patronage of said artist and as this is completely a people business they tend to go where they feel comfortable and confident about the result. This small act of self-promotion disguised as goodwill will take about as much time as wiring up and going through the various miseries of whichever museum piece you might decide on, and will be LOTS MORE FUN. If you really think that there is some kind of magic in oxide, there is really no need to have more than a full track quarter inch machine, as you are not locked into linear limitations. You can send the kick and snare to a tape recorder and saturate to your heart's content, and fly it back. The Ampex machines from yesteryear were locked into 60 hz for their motor speed, they had no VSO option bult in, so they are not prone to drift as long as your power compamy is steadfast, and you clean the pinch roller now and then, so fly in, fly out, very little if any messing around with makrers or stretching necessary. Or you could do a very honest appraisal of your local market and decide how much work is being paid for, why you don't get more of it,(if you aren't) and consider what busier places (assuming they exist) are doing that you aren't. I checked out your work, fidelity isn't your issue, btw, Lines get blurred in various recording shacks, what we are ultimately selling is help. Sometimes that help is just making someone feel good about what they do, sometimes it is helping someone with their song, or intonating their instrument, or coming up with that missing chord that clicks the song into gear, or fill in your own blank here___________ Cheers!!!! Thanks for your input. I did that for years, recording for free to drum up business. It got me nowhere. Why, you ask? Because the kids these days don't want to know what others sound like, they want to know what they will sound like. Just because you have previous work you've done on rock n' roll, doesn't mean that the indie kiddos will see anything in it that they can identify as useful. Same goes for any other genres. it's chicken and egg. They want to know you can deliver for them, but you need them to show others that you can deliver.. That's when having attractive gear can help convince folks. Fortunately I've been able to find a number of bands across genres to build a portfolio to the point where I don't do anything for free anymore. That ended years ago. One thing I noticed, is that if a band pays something for the service, they take it more seriously. They prepare better, play better, and watch their time better, even if it's a ridiculously low rate, they will still make the connection between paying something and the service being worth something. The free sessions would drag on and be full of screwing around which has the side effect of also causing the band to see the sessions as boring, fruitless, and ultimately start to believe that going to someone else's studio is useless and that they don't get anything done there that they couldn't do at home by themselves. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's also the state of studios these days. The more "freebie" studios that exist, the more bands are exposed to shitty experiences, and result in the bands taking a DIY approach... Only to turn themselves into shitty studios during their downtime and perpetuating the problem. One other issue I ran into with "free" work, is that once you give that to a band, the next time they expect it. I had 3-4 bands who had free work, but when they came back to do the next album, I mentioned charging them.. They all disappeared and ended up doing their stuff for free at the next guy's studio. Lots of bands do that these days if they don't go DIY. They'll leverage the "free" work from one studio, and then bounce to the next free studio, etc. There are a few around here particularly known for it, but there is always the next studio willing to do "free" to try to get their names out there.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 13, 2017 9:57:52 GMT -6
I'll agree with Svart on that one, with a slight twist: It doesn't matter what work you've down previously if it's more than a year or so old, because that's unreliable ancient history. People want to know what great shit you are doing NOW.
I've been lucky to have never done any recording for free, having started back when people expected to pay.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 10:06:02 GMT -6
Tape isn't the coolest piece of equipment you can buy, if you're going to dress to impress a mixing desk is way sweeter. Even if it's a control surface because most can't tell the difference in reality, I think it was Eric that got asked about tracking to his ADAT because it's "tape"..
As for the tape medium itself, whilst opinions are of course always subjective the one remaining constant is that tape is technically inferior to digital and we're not talking the subtle differences of modern converters here (if you want to prove me and a lot of industry engineering / sound veterans wrong then I'm very interested). Students generally can't afford rates to track in a studio, people who are a little bit older and have been into music for a while probably know the score to an extent and if someone touched my stuff with a tape machine I'd be asking for my money back.
It's akin to mastering hot, where you suck out all the dynamic range and raise the noise floor substantially because people can't figure out what a volume knob does. I understand it's a necessary evil (to an extent), but it'd cripple me to know I've bought the best of the best to get around said issues just to put myself back there on a whim.
The irony that they spent years getting away from all this for people to hop straight back into bed with it.
Anyway, I vote mixing desk / control surface if we're looking for "impressive".. Slap a big picture of that on some marketing.
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Post by svart on Jan 13, 2017 10:26:00 GMT -6
Tape isn't the coolest piece of equipment you can buy, if you're going to dress to impress a mixing desk is way sweeter. Even if it's a control surface because most can't tell the difference in reality, I think it was Eric that got asked about tracking to his ADAT because it's "tape".. As for the tape medium itself, whilst opinions are of course always subjective the one remaining constant is that tape is technically inferior to digital and we're not talking the subtle differences of modern converters here (if you want to prove me and a lot of industry engineering / sound veterans wrong then I'm very interested). Students generally can't afford rates to track in a studio, people who are a little bit older and have been into music for a while probably know the score to an extent and if someone touched my stuff with a tape machine I'd be asking for my money back. It's akin to mastering hot, where you suck out all the dynamic range and raise the noise floor substantially because people can't figure out what a volume knob does. I understand it's a necessary evil (to an extent), but it'd cripple me to know I've bought the best of the best to get around said issues just to put myself back there on a whim. The irony that they spent years getting away from all this for people to hop straight back into bed with it. Anyway, I vote mixing desk / control surface if we're looking for "impressive".. Slap a big picture of that on some marketing. I got the console covered..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 10:34:18 GMT -6
Nice , that to me is an eye catching piece (no inuendo intended ). Just out of interest, what are you doing in terms of marketing? Also have you got any bigger (popular) band / solo artists you can attach to your portfoilo?
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Post by svart on Jan 13, 2017 12:01:55 GMT -6
Nice , that to me is an eye catching piece (no inuendo intended ). Just out of interest, what are you doing in terms of marketing? Also have you got any bigger (popular) band / solo artists you can attach to your portfoilo? I've done a few things over the years: 1. Cold email bands: Reception was iffy. Most bands felt that it was strange/possibly desparate, and treated it like any other spam. I did get one band interested this way, maybe two, but I can't remember. 2. Go to shows and talk to bands: Most were cordial, but approaching bands before/after a show is a losing proposition. They are getting ready for the show beforehand, and after, they are tired and packing up. Bands don't really seem like they listen very well to what you have to say during this period, and there are usually 3 or 4 other recordists at the show vying for their business too. I did get a band interested this way, and it led to working with them over a couple projects. 3. Talking to band members about their other projects/interests during sessions. Once you get a band into the studio, the chance is good that one or more members is involved with other projects, so I always make a point of talking about their other projects and try to find ways I can get them interested in continuing to work with me. I've actually gotten a good amount of bands into the studio like this. 4. Word of mouth. I've gotten the majority of my clients in the last couple years simply because bands talk to each other. I think it works better because it's opinions of their peers that work best. When I talk to bands, they likely assume that I'm just doing a sales pitch and possibly lying. I'll get messages from bands who really liked work I've done for their friends and they want to see what I can do about pricing. Almost every band I hear from starts with "I like what you did for _______ but I was wondering how much you charge..." and then I get about 50% interest from the bands after that. I've also gotten interest from the Facebook page and stuff, but it's usually either oddball stuff or scams, but I'm thinking about starting to do low-level FB promotion stuff.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 13, 2017 12:10:19 GMT -6
point #4: the only one I've seen work at all.
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Post by illacov on Jan 13, 2017 12:18:17 GMT -6
I've found one of the biggest obstacles to getting more business is how good your CLIENTS are at marketing you.
Here's the catch, MOST AREN'T.
Svart, here's a marketeer's mindset and anybody else feel free to use this. Get some of your clients to generate testimonials for you, get their face, their voice, their honest praise of your experience and quality. Then you do the legwork FOR THEM. You promote the shit out of the nice things they say about you.
There's plenty of clients I've done amazing work for but they are just not into the social media thing. They are just not into even promoting their own work or when they do get into promoting themselves, they leave the component out that involves my work with them because their album is only part of the package but not the total package. Makes sense, sucks for me but I get it.
You have to give people the opportunity to know you. I've met more people all over this nation that knew my posts from the Purple site, read and followed my posts online and I had no idea they even engaged in such behavior. However, now that I do know, I make sure to have respect for forum behavior and interactions online in a way I originally wasn't aware of.
I say to say to you, you may have to create the illusion of these people stopping what they are doing and praising you but all you are really doing is making an archive of their testimonial and sharing it. You have a nice looking spot, you just need people to vouch for you in a way that they aren't. Remember your demographic isn't strictly local people.
Thanks -L.
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Post by noah shain on Jan 13, 2017 12:22:42 GMT -6
Okay boys. I'm gonna try and hit the 440 and the 1000 today. In the interest of getting you what you want we should establish the control. i can go straight out of the converter to tape machine and back in to the converter (which I'd never do) or I can land on the console and then tape machine. I'm guessing we want to just go straight to tape and back right? For what it's worth, I never just "hit tape" and I would probably never just "hit Zulu". I would use them as part of an integrated system involving lots of gear and all the impedance changes, amp stages and slew rates and transformers and blah blah that happens when you mix in an analog environment. Altering your signal in an extreme way with 1 piece of gear is really different from altering it slightly, in stages, with a bunch of gear. The results will be dramatically different. So this test won't provide a real picture of what would happen if you mixed to tape but it'll still be cool. svart is a sharp dude and he'll get that I'm sure. I also don't get any work because of my tape machines. I get work because of how my records sound and affect people. My tape machines are (sometimes) part of that. I like to think that I have a sound. The machines do too but they're my tools. I don't use them to attract business and work around their shortcomings. I use them to produce an emotional reaction in listeners. You may not think tape machines sound great and they probably spec out lousy across many measurements but nobody seems to measure and compare the things we DO like about them. They do a thing. It suits certain projects. Increases their emotional impact...I think😉 Okay...on to the test.
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Post by Quint on Jan 13, 2017 12:38:25 GMT -6
Okay boys. I'm gonna try and hit the 440 and the 1000 today. In the interest of getting you what you want we should establish the control. i can go straight out of the converter to tape machine and back in to the converter (which I'd never do) or I can land on the console and then tape machine. I'm guessing we want to just go straight to tape and back right? For what it's worth, I never just "hit tape" and I would probably never just "hit Zulu". I would use them as part of an integrated system involving lots of gear and all the impedance changes, amp stages and slew rates and transformers and blah blah that happens when you mix in an analog environment. Altering your signal in an extreme way with 1 piece of gear is really different from altering it slightly, in stages, with a bunch of gear. The results will be dramatically different. So this test won't provide a real picture of what would happen if you mixed to tape but it'll still be cool. svart is a sharp dude and he'll get that I'm sure. I also don't get any work because of my tape machines. I get work because of how my records sound and affect people. My tape machines are (sometimes) part of that. I like to think that I have a sound. The machines do too but they're my tools. I don't use them to attract business and work around their shortcomings. I use them to produce an emotional reaction in listeners. You may not think tape machines sound great and they probably spec out lousy across many measurements but nobody seems to measure and compare the things we DO like about them. They do a thing. It suits certain projects. Increases their emotional impact...I think😉 Okay...on to the test. Straight to tape and back would be my vote. Thanks for doing this.
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Post by scumbum on Jan 13, 2017 13:11:44 GMT -6
Nice , that to me is an eye catching piece (no inuendo intended ). Just out of interest, what are you doing in terms of marketing? Also have you got any bigger (popular) band / solo artists you can attach to your portfoilo? I've done a few things over the years: 1. Cold email bands: Reception was iffy. Most bands felt that it was strange/possibly desparate, and treated it like any other spam. I did get one band interested this way, maybe two, but I can't remember. 2. Go to shows and talk to bands: Most were cordial, but approaching bands before/after a show is a losing proposition. They are getting ready for the show beforehand, and after, they are tired and packing up. Bands don't really seem like they listen very well to what you have to say during this period, and there are usually 3 or 4 other recordists at the show vying for their business too. I did get a band interested this way, and it led to working with them over a couple projects. 3. Talking to band members about their other projects/interests during sessions. Once you get a band into the studio, the chance is good that one or more members is involved with other projects, so I always make a point of talking about their other projects and try to find ways I can get them interested in continuing to work with me. I've actually gotten a good amount of bands into the studio like this. 4. Word of mouth. I've gotten the majority of my clients in the last couple years simply because bands talk to each other. I think it works better because it's opinions of their peers that work best. When I talk to bands, they likely assume that I'm just doing a sales pitch and possibly lying. I'll get messages from bands who really liked work I've done for their friends and they want to see what I can do about pricing. Almost every band I hear from starts with "I like what you did for _______ but I was wondering how much you charge..." and then I get about 50% interest from the bands after that. I've also gotten interest from the Facebook page and stuff, but it's usually either oddball stuff or scams, but I'm thinking about starting to do low-level FB promotion stuff. Well svart if you wanna stand out then go all 100% analog . Its a gimmick like Daptone and Third Man Records . People will record at your place for the experience and that its "cool" . Bands will say , " I know this recording studio thats 100% analog , no computers , totally old school ....." Advertise like that too ...... if you want the classic old school analog sound , I'm your guy . You'll definitely stand out .
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 13, 2017 13:14:56 GMT -6
Okay boys. I'm gonna try and hit the 440 and the 1000 today. In the interest of getting you what you want we should establish the control. i can go straight out of the converter to tape machine and back in to the converter (which I'd never do) or I can land on the console and then tape machine. I'm guessing we want to just go straight to tape and back right? For what it's worth, I never just "hit tape" and I would probably never just "hit Zulu". I would use them as part of an integrated system involving lots of gear and all the impedance changes, amp stages and slew rates and transformers and blah blah that happens when you mix in an analog environment. Altering your signal in an extreme way with 1 piece of gear is really different from altering it slightly, in stages, with a bunch of gear. The results will be dramatically different. So this test won't provide a real picture of what would happen if you mixed to tape but it'll still be cool. svart is a sharp dude and he'll get that I'm sure. I also don't get any work because of my tape machines. I get work because of how my records sound and affect people. My tape machines are (sometimes) part of that. I like to think that I have a sound. The machines do too but they're my tools. I don't use them to attract business and work around their shortcomings. I use them to produce an emotional reaction in listeners. You may not think tape machines sound great and they probably spec out lousy across many measurements but nobody seems to measure and compare the things we DO like about them. They do a thing. It suits certain projects. Increases their emotional impact...I think😉 Okay...on to the test. Straight to tape and if you want to do another pass with you doing what you do! The reasoning, 1 this is what tape gives you 2 this is what you can get from tape as part of the chain!
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