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Post by svart on Oct 14, 2016 12:17:24 GMT -6
I still use hosa for things. They aren't bad cables for the cost. I find that they just don't hold up around the molded ends, thats the only problem I have with them. I have 99 cent outlets in places. The rack gear goes through 6ft power strips that are wired directly to the line drops though. It's infinitely more important to keep the contacts clean on the plugs going into the outlets than it is to worry about contact pressure. Most gear uses switch mode supplies. Those rectify to DC at a higher voltage and then "chop" the DC into PWM through an isolating transformer. If you think line noise gets through that, you're not understanding the magnitude of the PWM hash compared to the noise on an AC input. You're much more likely to get ground noise onto a system than get line noise through a SMPS. The fact is, if your cable makes a difference, you probably have grounding issues, rather than power issues. Remember, ground is just another conductor for power, in this case it's conducting return currents shared with the neutral (US wiring). I was thinking more about linear power supplies when I made my comment, which seem to dominate in my studio filled with pre-90's gear. Maybe most newer gear uses switch mode supplies, but a lot of of stuff more than 15 years old is seems to have linear supplies. You are right--PWM hash is a much bigger deal. I took great care in the Silver Bullet design to address this so I had noise-free power rails. Brad Even then, the inductance of power transformers is high enough to low pass most high frequency line hash, and with the subsequent magnitude of the diode snap during rectification, line noise would be minuscule compared to such. If somehow you did get line noise through, then proper decoupling would take care of the rest. Again, I posit that if a power cable makes a quantifiable difference, then the design is/was sub-par to begin with, and the cable is not improving something that was optimal, but rather just changing the operating conditions of a sub-optimal product.
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Post by rowmat on Oct 14, 2016 12:20:13 GMT -6
Again, I posit that if a power cable makes a quantifiable difference, then the design is/was sub-par to begin with, and the cable is not improving something that was optimal, but rather just changing the operating conditions of a sub-optimal product. Amen to that!
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Post by BradM on Oct 14, 2016 12:47:37 GMT -6
Even then, the inductance of power transformers is high enough to low pass most high frequency line hash, and with the subsequent magnitude of the diode snap during rectification, line noise would be minuscule compared to such. If somehow you did get line noise through, then proper decoupling would take care of the rest. Again, I posit that if a power cable makes a quantifiable difference, then the design is/was sub-par to begin with, and the cable is not improving something that was optimal, but rather just changing the operating conditions of a sub-optimal product. Arguments made using science. If only politicians could get on that train... On a semi-related tangent... You know what would be a great product for DIY use or for smaller commercial manufacturers: an SMPS PCB assembly designed specifically for high end pro audio applications. Have you ever thought of designing such a product? I know very little about switch mode design. Brad
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 14, 2016 12:53:03 GMT -6
When you don't expect to hear any difference based on your technical background, it is shocking.
There's a big difference in expectation bias between a professional who would rather not spend a penny extra for anything and an audiophile or hobbyist hoping to justify the expense of something exotic.
My experience has been that pros hear real problems and where there's smoke, there generally turns out to be fire. I've also found that wire sound differences go away for the most part when every AC connection in a building is tight and not corroded. If you want to talk power supplies, talk to any touring sound company technician. We complain about bad sound while they are dealing with the very real potential of people getting electrocuted.
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Post by rowmat on Oct 14, 2016 13:14:09 GMT -6
Here's an article about power supply cables that is worth a read. sound.whsites.net/cables-p4.htm#powerOf relevance are the differences between US and Australian AC mains supplies. Basically your US AC power sucks and ours doesn't, or at least not as much. We get 240Vac versus your 120Vac so our current requirements for each piece of gear are, in theory, halved while our power is generally cleaner. QUOTE: One useful observation is that the mains in the US seems to be basically pretty nasty, and not at all what we are used to in Australia. Interference seems to be a major problem, and if this is the case it will find its way through the power supply and into the amplifier (or other equipment) if the power supply is not well designed.
Also, because of the lower mains voltage in the US (nominally 120V), the current drawn by power amplifiers in particular can cause real problems with cheap light duty cables. I have already made this point, but it is worth making again. Use of a heavy duty lead (possibly shielded if interference is a problem) will make a measurable difference. Whether the difference is audible or not is debatable, but elimination (or even reduction) of mains borne interference may result in a worthwhile improvement in sound quality.
So the moral of the story is selling Australians expensive IEC power cables is likely to be of limited benefit and mostly a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere in areas that would provide greater improvement. RFI is one thing but most of these cables I have seen here have been promoted using technobabble pseudo science and generally prices have started at $1500 and above. These are typically promoted as 'audiophile' mains cables. I am yet to see common useage of specialist mains cables in studio environments here. Why because they make little or no discernible difference. How many are running mains supply isolation transformers? Wouldn't that be far more effective at reducing incoming RFI? Let me be clear here, a shielded/filtered mains cable (in fact let's call it a mains filter rather than a cable) that can show a measurable reduction in RFI contamination is one thing, something that comes in a velvet lined walnut box and costs $3000 with some blurb that refers to "molecule alignment" and "holographic sound staging" is something else again and is the domain of the snake oil charlatans.
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Post by svart on Oct 14, 2016 13:53:10 GMT -6
Even then, the inductance of power transformers is high enough to low pass most high frequency line hash, and with the subsequent magnitude of the diode snap during rectification, line noise would be minuscule compared to such. If somehow you did get line noise through, then proper decoupling would take care of the rest. Again, I posit that if a power cable makes a quantifiable difference, then the design is/was sub-par to begin with, and the cable is not improving something that was optimal, but rather just changing the operating conditions of a sub-optimal product. Arguments made using science. If only politicians could get on that train... On a semi-related tangent... You know what would be a great product for DIY use or for smaller commercial manufacturers: an SMPS PCB assembly designed specifically for high end pro audio applications. Have you ever thought of designing such a product? I know very little about switch mode design. Brad I do quite a lot of offline designs for DC-DC applications in my company's products, but online switchers(AC-DC) are an area that I rarely delve into, partly because of the litany of available options, but also partly due to the stringent($$$$) safety testing that is necessitated in online designs. Now with PFC being mandated by a lot of municipalities, it's even more complicated and hard to meet line-cleanliness guidelines. A company with deep pockets, or one already invested in online SMPS design could likely knock out a special "low-noise" design very easily. They already do it for special applications such as medical equipment, aerospace and test/measurement sectors. On the other hand, post-supply filtering is cheap and easy to do as well, and could yield results matching low-noise linear regulation. In my DC-DC supplies, I routinely run RF circuits on POL switching supplies so I know they can be extremely quiet with proper implementation.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 14, 2016 14:15:26 GMT -6
The problem with the whole audiophile cable and specifically power cables is that for every Ray Kimber , who is very much a trust the science guy there are 3 guys who are selling snake oil. I heard Rays top power cord make a difference when substituted for generic cords on a Pair of Bridged BEL 1001 in my own rooms on my Vanderseens and Magnepans I just couldn't justify the $$ for the small difference, If anything I wish I had the $ for the amps.
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Post by ragan on Oct 14, 2016 14:49:37 GMT -6
Re: Hosa.
When I brought home some Mogami Gold (a couple hundred bucks worth) the first thing I did was run some audio through it and my cheap Hosa cables. Nulled. In fact, every BALANCED cable I've ever tried nulled with every other.
One time on GS, someone was going on and on about the difference in cable and he linked to another thread where they had run a mix through 5 or 6 type high end cable. He was saying this one was more open and that one was tighter in the lows and "night and day difference" and all the usual stuff you hear. I downloaded the WAVs he was referencing. They all nulled. He didn't believe me so I took those files and made random edits in the mix they'd run through them so that the mix I posted changed cable types about 8 times. I asked him to tell me where the cables changed, since he had been going on and on about the "night and day" differences. He never posted again there.
I'm open minded though.
Was I doing the null tests wrong? What's the catch?
I don't trust anything that's not measurable or tested blind. Everyone thinks they're immune to confirmation bias when it comes to their pet theories. They're not. None of us are. How many times have all of us been tweaking an EQ setting and thought "ahh, there it is, sits much better now" only to realize the damn thing is bypassed.
And BTW when I returned the Mogami Gold and told the GC salesperson "it nulls with every other balanced cable I have" they nodded and said "yeah some people are more sensitive to cable differences than others".
Classic.
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Post by wiz on Oct 14, 2016 14:57:51 GMT -6
Here's an article about power supply cables that is worth a read. sound.whsites.net/cables-p4.htm#powerOf relevance are the differences between US and Australian AC mains supplies. Basically your US AC power sucks and ours doesn't, or at least not as much. We get 240Vac versus your 120Vac so our current requirements for each piece of gear are, in theory, halved while our power is generally cleaner. QUOTE: One useful observation is that the mains in the US seems to be basically pretty nasty, and not at all what we are used to in Australia. Interference seems to be a major problem, and if this is the case it will find its way through the power supply and into the amplifier (or other equipment) if the power supply is not well designed.
Also, because of the lower mains voltage in the US (nominally 120V), the current drawn by power amplifiers in particular can cause real problems with cheap light duty cables. I have already made this point, but it is worth making again. Use of a heavy duty lead (possibly shielded if interference is a problem) will make a measurable difference. Whether the difference is audible or not is debatable, but elimination (or even reduction) of mains borne interference may result in a worthwhile improvement in sound quality.
So the moral of the story is selling Australians expensive IEC power cables is likely to be of limited benefit and mostly a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere in areas that would provide greater improvement. RFI is one thing but most of these cables I have seen here have been promoted using technobabble pseudo science and generally prices have started at $1500 and above. These are typically promoted as 'audiophile' mains cables. I am yet to see common useage of specialist mains cables in studio environments here. Why because they make little or no discernible difference. How many are running mains supply isolation transformers? Wouldn't that be far more effective at reducing incoming RFI? Let me be clear here, a shielded/filtered mains cable (in fact let's call it a mains filter rather than a cable) that can show a measurable reduction in RFI contamination is one thing, something that comes in a velvet lined walnut box and costs $3000 with some blurb that refers to "molecule alignment" and "holographic sound staging" is something else again and is the domain of the snake oil charlatans. I just had to stop shampooing the kangaroo to say.. I often wondered about the difference between over the pond and here.. in regards to power.... Back when I was a calibration engineer in the RAAF, most gear (test equipment) was spec'd to operate within its published spec with a variance of 10% of the power... some of this is the gear, used to measure audio tests.... We used to use a variac to test. I will say this... When you change something (operative word being "change", not turning a knob that does nothing 8) ) and you hear a difference... it is most likely that there is a difference... especially in this experienced crowd here on RGO. Now , as to why and what is causing that difference.... It may not necessarily be the thing you first think it is... it also might be. I know this... there is no way on earth that I am going to fork out 190USD per power cable for my studio.... When I put my rig together, I do it one piece of gear at a time, and listen as I put things in racks, and run their leads, both audio and power... you do this, and you get "quiet" . This I don't see anyone talk about really, instal in the first place... routing of cables, positioning of gear in racks.. makes a huge difference.... Also, as I have said before.. every single vocal you guys have ever heard from me, was recorded through my U87 running via over 100ft of cable in snake, my old live multicore stage box, with a 3ft mic lead hanging off the U87 then a 30ft mic lead running to the stage box.. so over 133ft of middle of the road, cheap cable........ I use the 3ft xlr cable on my mics, so I am not plugging into and out of the microphone all the time, especially on the vintage mics.. that for me is a point of failure, let alone the chance of dropping them etc.. Anyways, I have to rinse and repeat on the kangaroo.... 8) cheers Wiz
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Post by drbill on Oct 14, 2016 15:02:38 GMT -6
Re: Hosa. When I brought home some Mogami Gold (a couple hundred bucks worth) the first thing I did was run some audio through it and my cheap Hosa cables. Nulled. how long was your run? Most pro studios with patch bays are going thru 100-300 feet before all is said and done. A 10' run isn't really going to show the differences in a real world situation. IMO.
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Post by wiz on Oct 14, 2016 15:06:12 GMT -6
Re: Hosa. When I brought home some Mogami Gold (a couple hundred bucks worth) the first thing I did was run some audio through it and my cheap Hosa cables. Nulled. how long was your run? Most pro studios with patch bays are going thru 100-300 feet before all is said and done. A 10' run isn't really going to show the differences in a real world situation. IMO. I know what you meant.. but it is in "his" real world.. this is what I meant in my post above.... one might hear it, another might not.. but there uses and studios are probably wayyyyy different... cheers Wiz
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Post by drbill on Oct 14, 2016 15:09:37 GMT -6
Agreed. I think if you start testing cables @ 500 foot length -- not unusual for big tracking rooms with a large console, lots of outboard, remote machine room, etc. -- you'll begin to hear a significantly bigger difference than a 10' cable.
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Post by svart on Oct 14, 2016 15:10:07 GMT -6
Re: Hosa. When I brought home some Mogami Gold (a couple hundred bucks worth) the first thing I did was run some audio through it and my cheap Hosa cables. Nulled. In fact, every BALANCED cable I've ever tried nulled with every other. One time on GS, someone was going on and on about the difference in cable and he linked to another thread where they had run a mix through 5 or 6 type high end cable. He was saying this one was more open and that one was tighter in the lows and "night and day difference" and all the usual stuff you hear. I downloaded the WAVs he was referencing. They all nulled. He didn't believe me so I took those files and made random edits in the mix they'd run through them so that the mix I posted changed cable types about 8 times. I asked him to tell me where the cables changed, since he had been going on and on about the "night and day" differences. He never posted again there. I'm open minded though. Was I doing the null tests wrong? What's the catch? I don't trust anything that's not measurable or tested blind. Everyone thinks they're immune to confirmation bias when it comes to their pet theories. They're not. None of us are. How many times have all of us been tweaking an EQ setting and thought "ahh, there it is, sits much better now" only to realize the damn thing is bypassed. And BTW when I returned the Mogami Gold and told the GC salesperson "it nulls with every other balanced cable I have" they nodded and said "yeah some people are more sensitive to cable differences than others". Classic. You did nothing wrong. As long as the cables are of a quality that doesn't parasitically change the signal on them, then they will be functionally identical. You can make them out of hand- stretched silver, clad them in teflon and paint them with unicorn tears, and if the circuit is designed to function optimally with regular old shielded copper cable of ordinary quality, you won't get a bit of difference between them. I will go to my grave with the belief that if a cable changes the attributes of your system, then something was wrong with either the original cable, or the transmission system between the units. However, one piece in audio that still makes me scratch my head is the lack of termination standards between devices. That can account for some of the differences between certain cables, but again, it's impedance mismatch that is being affected, not actually an improvement beyond perfection. If the audio industry got their shit together and dictated specific terminations for analog signals, then all this super-cable nonsense would likely die off pretty quickly.
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Post by rowmat on Oct 14, 2016 15:20:30 GMT -6
Also, as I have said before.. every single vocal you guys have ever heard from me, was recorded through my U87 running via over 100ft of cable in snake, my old live multicore stage box, with a 3ft mic lead hanging off the U87 then a 30ft mic lead running to the stage box.. so over 133ft of middle of the road, cheap cable........ I use the 3ft xlr cable on my mics... Now Wiz did you realise if you were to purchase a $3000 super audiophile grade 3ft XLR cable it would make all the other cable in your signal chain totally AWESOME!!!
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Post by rowmat on Oct 14, 2016 15:31:28 GMT -6
Wiz, I was just wondering if you'd like to share your marsupial beauty regime secrets with us? For instance did you apply conditioner after shampooing Skippy?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 14, 2016 15:32:08 GMT -6
Re: Hosa. When I brought home some Mogami Gold (a couple hundred bucks worth) the first thing I did was run some audio through it and my cheap Hosa cables. Nulled. In fact, every BALANCED cable I've ever tried nulled with every other. One time on GS, someone was going on and on about the difference in cable and he linked to another thread where they had run a mix through 5 or 6 type high end cable. He was saying this one was more open and that one was tighter in the lows and "night and day difference" and all the usual stuff you hear. I downloaded the WAVs he was referencing. They all nulled. He didn't believe me so I took those files and made random edits in the mix they'd run through them so that the mix I posted changed cable types about 8 times. I asked him to tell me where the cables changed, since he had been going on and on about the "night and day" differences. He never posted again there. I'm open minded though. Was I doing the null tests wrong? What's the catch? I don't trust anything that's not measurable or tested blind. Everyone thinks they're immune to confirmation bias when it comes to their pet theories. They're not. None of us are. How many times have all of us been tweaking an EQ setting and thought "ahh, there it is, sits much better now" only to realize the damn thing is bypassed. And BTW when I returned the Mogami Gold and told the GC salesperson "it nulls with every other balanced cable I have" they nodded and said "yeah some people are more sensitive to cable differences than others". Classic. The problem with the null test is most of us lack the equipment with the resolution to see the differeance! Now if your your using an AP ...
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 14, 2016 15:36:21 GMT -6
If we are going to talk cables in general let's not forget that their is no true standard for the contacts in an XLR & if you measure some of the 1/4 plugs and jacks you will see some variance as well! More and more I find I miss screw terminals where you know what kind of connection you have!
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Post by rowmat on Oct 14, 2016 15:51:56 GMT -6
Re: Hosa. When I brought home some Mogami Gold (a couple hundred bucks worth) the first thing I did was run some audio through it and my cheap Hosa cables. Nulled. In fact, every BALANCED cable I've ever tried nulled with every other. One time on GS, someone was going on and on about the difference in cable and he linked to another thread where they had run a mix through 5 or 6 type high end cable. He was saying this one was more open and that one was tighter in the lows and "night and day difference" and all the usual stuff you hear. I downloaded the WAVs he was referencing. They all nulled. He didn't believe me so I took those files and made random edits in the mix they'd run through them so that the mix I posted changed cable types about 8 times. I asked him to tell me where the cables changed, since he had been going on and on about the "night and day" differences. He never posted again there. I'm open minded though. Was I doing the null tests wrong? What's the catch? I don't trust anything that's not measurable or tested blind. Everyone thinks they're immune to confirmation bias when it comes to their pet theories. They're not. None of us are. How many times have all of us been tweaking an EQ setting and thought "ahh, there it is, sits much better now" only to realize the damn thing is bypassed. And BTW when I returned the Mogami Gold and told the GC salesperson "it nulls with every other balanced cable I have" they nodded and said "yeah some people are more sensitive to cable differences than others". Classic. You did nothing wrong. As long as the cables are of a quality that doesn't parasitically change the signal on them, then they will be functionally identical. You can make them out of hand- stretched silver, clad them in teflon and paint them with unicorn tears, and if the circuit is designed to function optimally with regular old shielded copper cable of ordinary quality, you won't get a bit of difference between them. I will go to my grave with the belief that if a cable changes the attributes of your system, then something was wrong with either the original cable, or the transmission system between the units. However, one piece in audio that still makes me scratch my head is the lack of termination standards between devices. That can account for some of the differences between certain cables, but again, it's impedance mismatch that is being affected, not actually an improvement beyond perfection. If the audio industry got their shit together and dictated specific terminations for analog signals, then all this super-cable nonsense would likely die off pretty quickly. Um... just wondering if you know where I could get a good deal on Unicorn Tears?
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Post by drbill on Oct 14, 2016 16:07:24 GMT -6
You know, you're being pretty condescending.... You're essentially accusing everyone who hears a difference of confirmation bias, and it's just not true. If you can't hear it in your specific studio situation, I completely understand. But don't paint everyone else as kooks or ignorant. You've got several non-BS guys in this thread (not including myself with their golden ears) saying there IS a difference....
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Post by rowmat on Oct 14, 2016 16:37:02 GMT -6
You know, you're being pretty condescending.... You're essentially accusing everyone who hears a difference of confirmation bias, and it's just not true. If you can't hear it in your specific studio situation, I completely understand. But don't paint everyone else as kooks or ignorant. You've got several non-BS guys in this thread (not including myself with their golden ears) saying there IS a difference.... Are we talking about a cable or a mains filter? Two different things IMO. One is a cable the other is a filter. If there is noise on the mains and it is being filtered/shielded by 'said' cable then I get it. If current limiting was occurring with a previous cable, and now it isn't, I get that too. However if there's no filtering or current flow increase occuring with these special power cables compared with a standard IEC cable that is electrically 'up to snuff', then we are entering a world of expectation bias as any differences will be miniscule compared many other variables such as air temperature or moving one's head a few inches. I'm not saying there are no differences between different cables, what I'm saying is what Svart has already elicted. Once you reach 100% you cannot take it to 110%. Let's see some proper technical info on these cables or is that a secret?
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Post by svart on Oct 14, 2016 16:38:01 GMT -6
You know, you're being pretty condescending.... You're essentially accusing everyone who hears a difference of confirmation bias, and it's just not true. If you can't hear it in your specific studio situation, I completely understand. But don't paint everyone else as kooks or ignorant. You've got several non-BS guys in this thread (not including myself with their golden ears) saying there IS a difference.... Not sure if you're talking to me or Rowmat, but let me describe my position on the matter. I work for a multi-million dollar company. I make design choices that must be backed up in fact, using provable data and established practices in order to mitigate the monetary risk for the company. In other words, my decisions can make or cost the company millions, and cost people jobs (including my own). My job depends on facts that are indisputable to others. There is no such thing as "in my opinion" in the professional design field when it comes down to the nitty-gritty. I have yet to see any of these proven facts that the cables in question do anything to improve an electrical situation. I've yet to see graphs, charts or other data that proves the opinion that these are improving a signal. I have to show charts, graphs, data and other proof of performance whenever I spec out any piece of cable, connector, insulator, and any other associated piece of transmission line that I might utilize. I have to use the manufacturer's data, and verify with my own testing before I can use an item in my designs. We don't work on hope, or expectations. We work on plain and provable facts. In my line of work, I have access to RF cables that do cost hundreds to thousands of dollars, but to use such, I must prove that the cost is necessary. I have yet to see any of this in the audio cable world, beyond standard manufacturer specs, and some buzzy lingo promising things that may, or may not, be true. Show me a chart, graph or other piece of indisputable data that can be independently verified and I'll be with you 100% behind the claims. Until then, I know through 2 decades of design experience with cables, that what is being promised by *some* of these manufacturers is nothing but marketing, with little basis in facts.
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Post by drbill on Oct 14, 2016 16:49:01 GMT -6
You know, you're being pretty condescending.... You're essentially accusing everyone who hears a difference of confirmation bias, and it's just not true. If you can't hear it in your specific studio situation, I completely understand. But don't paint everyone else as kooks or ignorant. You've got several non-BS guys in this thread (not including myself with their golden ears) saying there IS a difference.... Not sure if you're talking to me or Rowmat, but let me describe my position on the matter. I work for a multi-million dollar company. I make design choices that must be backed up in fact, using provable data and established practices in order to mitigate the monetary risk for the company. In other words, my decisions can make or cost the company millions, and cost people jobs (including my own). My job depends on facts that are indisputable to others. There is no such thing as "in my opinion" in the professional design field when it comes down to the nitty-gritty. I have yet to see any of these proven facts that the cables in question do anything to improve an electrical situation. I've yet to see graphs, charts or other data that proves the opinion that these are improving a signal. I have to show charts, graphs, data and other proof of performance whenever I spec out any piece of cable, connector, insulator, and any other associated piece of transmission line that I might utilize. I have to use the manufacturer's data, and verify with my own testing before I can use an item in my designs. We don't work on hope, or expectations. We work on plain and provable facts. In my line of work, I have access to RF cables that do cost hundreds to thousands of dollars, but to use such, I must prove that the cost is necessary. I have yet to see any of this in the audio cable world, beyond standard manufacturer specs, and some buzzy lingo promising things that may, or may not, be true. Show me a chart, graph or other piece of indisputable data that can be independently verified and I'll be with you 100% behind the claims. Until then, I know through 2 decades of design experience with cables, that what is being promised by *some* of these manufacturers is nothing but marketing, with little basis in facts. So in other words, you don't work in the pro audio industry? I'm not trying to defend the snake oil salesmen. Unfortunately, they are lumped in with very talented designers like Kimber who do the science and have the cajones to back it up. I respect your design expertise, but I know what my ears hear, and as much hyperbole as science that is spouted about, it does not change reality. There are discernible differences. Now.....all that said, I'm not about to be buying $450 IEC cables. But I have heard a difference. If I had unlimited money on tap, I'd probably spend the cash on what I consider to be high end and not snake oil.
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Post by ragan on Oct 14, 2016 16:52:44 GMT -6
Re: Hosa. When I brought home some Mogami Gold (a couple hundred bucks worth) the first thing I did was run some audio through it and my cheap Hosa cables. Nulled. how long was your run? Most pro studios with patch bays are going thru 100-300 feet before all is said and done. A 10' run isn't really going to show the differences in a real world situation. IMO. What difference? Noise? These were just 20' runs.
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Post by ragan on Oct 14, 2016 16:55:11 GMT -6
Re: Hosa. When I brought home some Mogami Gold (a couple hundred bucks worth) the first thing I did was run some audio through it and my cheap Hosa cables. Nulled. In fact, every BALANCED cable I've ever tried nulled with every other. One time on GS, someone was going on and on about the difference in cable and he linked to another thread where they had run a mix through 5 or 6 type high end cable. He was saying this one was more open and that one was tighter in the lows and "night and day difference" and all the usual stuff you hear. I downloaded the WAVs he was referencing. They all nulled. He didn't believe me so I took those files and made random edits in the mix they'd run through them so that the mix I posted changed cable types about 8 times. I asked him to tell me where the cables changed, since he had been going on and on about the "night and day" differences. He never posted again there. I'm open minded though. Was I doing the null tests wrong? What's the catch? I don't trust anything that's not measurable or tested blind. Everyone thinks they're immune to confirmation bias when it comes to their pet theories. They're not. None of us are. How many times have all of us been tweaking an EQ setting and thought "ahh, there it is, sits much better now" only to realize the damn thing is bypassed. And BTW when I returned the Mogami Gold and told the GC salesperson "it nulls with every other balanced cable I have" they nodded and said "yeah some people are more sensitive to cable differences than others". Classic. The problem with the null test is most of us lack the equipment with the resolution to see the differeance! Now if your your using an AP ... So a DAW null to infinity is somehow missing what makes one cable sound "open" and another sound "round"? I know those aren't your descriptors, Eric, but they are things that get thrown around. I'm genuinely curious. What's the flaw in a DAW null test?
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Post by rowmat on Oct 14, 2016 16:58:25 GMT -6
Simple solution, beer, barbecue, blind test... although not necessarily in that order.
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