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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 15, 2016 7:18:01 GMT -6
Hey Coil Audio, what's the deal with the CA-70? I don't see it on the website. How do they differ? Etc.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 15, 2016 7:39:37 GMT -6
Looking forward to some files John. For me, I need a pre that's simple, one sound, tweak levels, done. But I really enjoy hearing what people who know more than I do can get out of these things.
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Post by EmRR on Jul 15, 2016 8:18:22 GMT -6
Thanks for the tech clarifications Coil! We can do the math for you John, no worries. Welcome to the first preamp you've probably used that is also a limiter. Track some drums through them with minimum feedback and gain wide open. They should be flatlining the wave-form, and you might not be able to hear it as crunchy. What's also interesting is this basic circuit (stock setting) runs the feedback in the theoretical so called 'no no' range that enhances upper harmonics, but not so much that they start to cancel. So aggressive sounding in the upper mids if set roughly "Gates stock'. 10K minimum resistor, I haven't tried that on a Gates, that should be running it up into so called 'normal' feedback range and more like what you see with many RCA designs.
My only feedback changes with SA-70's have been stock 2nd versus 3rd variations with UTC transformers, and a Triad version with no feedback, not really more or somewhat less. Those two original transformer types sound pretty different, so it's interesting to theorize about what a new build might sound like. With the NFB variable, you've had to do something different with the treble EQ approach, I assume more along the lines of the Triad transformer schematic. At one point I had a stripped Gates frame with 10 of the UTC SA-70's in it, and made a bunch of records using almost nothing but, that same frame started with 5 of each transformer type in it, so I've used both a lot. The setting of the gain control also changes the feedback amount too, it's also a bit 'no no' in design, and in the original the gain control can really affect the overall response curve. The UTC version later schematic already has a bit of head bump type bottom boost, I don't recall if the Triad type did or not.
So these look super-bitchin' (it's a sad day when a Zappa-esque thing like "bitchin' " gets autocorrected to 'bitcoin' every damn time) with the big rack also kind looking like the RCA modular approach, and it's impressive to commit to building CA-70's with vintage caps and everything, that's a tough parts hunt these days. The feedback control and EQ are logical design extensions that should be really useful.
Collins, yeah, they are cool. Another one I've had many variations of. Are you working on those next, or does my no time havin' ass still have wiggle room on that product?
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Post by jayfitz on Jul 15, 2016 10:17:34 GMT -6
We just received a Coil Audio PS2 unit with both a CA-70 and a CA-286 module fitted along with both the CT-110 and CT-110HN to play with. The build quality is amazing on the unit. Really nicely done. And the sound! WOW--These are serious mojo rich machines. We fired it up right after UPS left and plugged in a Stager SR-2N ribbon and man did that sound rich and full! Just killer!
We are pumped at what we're hearing thus far, but more testing will ensue! The amount of tone possibilities on the Coil Mic Amp Blocks are incredible!!!! And Right away, I already think ordering both CT-110 and CT-110HN input transformers with either CA-70 and CA-286 is a must!! Why not have more options!?
Excellent job Coil Audio!!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 15, 2016 10:34:36 GMT -6
Working today. Will try and post the song and some quick vocal files today.
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Post by ragan on Jul 15, 2016 11:22:41 GMT -6
What's the price on these? I didn't see it on the Coil site.
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Post by jayfitz on Jul 15, 2016 11:54:23 GMT -6
What's the price on these? I didn't see it on the Coil site. The PS2 Rack/PSU with a single mono CA286 is $1799. A PS2 with two CA286's is $2999. PS2 with mono CA70 is $1699, two is $2799. PS2 with one of each CA286/CA70 is $3098 You can also purchase the additional CT-110HN input tranny with the initial pre/rack combo. The vertical versions have different pricing. If you have any additional questions on pricing and/or availability, feel free to hit us up, we're pumped to be a dealer for Coil Audio!
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Post by Coil Audio on Jul 15, 2016 16:21:50 GMT -6
Hey Coil Audio , what's the deal with the CA-70? I don't see it on the website. How do they differ? Etc. Hey jcoutu1 - Steve here phonin in from the shop - the website is undergoing an overhaul as we take on new dealers and begin to end direct sales etc. As Jay Fitz pointed out - he has them at the DSP doctor website and we have a few other dealers coming aboard and adding them as well. Hopefully the new and improved website will be up within a few weeks. The CA-70 is an older design aesthetic (based on the root topology of the Gates SA-70 as EmRR has mentioned in this thread a few times) - it utilizes Octal tubes which were introduced in the mid 1930's and have a much different character/envelope than the 1950's era 9-pin noval EF86s' in our CA-286. Personally, there isnt any sonic ground that cant be scattered, smothered , and covered between these 2 designs.
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Post by channelcat on Jul 15, 2016 17:46:22 GMT -6
jayfitz - Have you guys tried them on the back-end of the Pluto Plate? I'd love to hear that combo!
Stu
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Post by Coil Audio on Jul 15, 2016 19:52:47 GMT -6
Thanks for the tech clarifications Coil! We can do the math for you John, no worries. Welcome to the first preamp you've probably used that is also a limiter. Track some drums through them with minimum feedback and gain wide open. They should be flatlining the wave-form, and you might not be able to hear it as crunchy. What's also interesting is this basic circuit (stock setting) runs the feedback in the theoretical so called 'no no' range that enhances upper harmonics, but not so much that they start to cancel. So aggressive sounding in the upper mids if set roughly "Gates stock'. 10K minimum resistor, I haven't tried that on a Gates, that should be running it up into so called 'normal' feedback range and more like what you see with many RCA designs. My only feedback changes with SA-70's have been stock 2nd versus 3rd variations with UTC transformers, and a Triad version with no feedback, not really more or somewhat less. Those two original transformer types sound pretty different, so it's interesting to theorize about what a new build might sound like. With the NFB variable, you've had to do something different with the treble EQ approach, I assume more along the lines of the Triad transformer schematic. At one point I had a stripped Gates frame with 10 of the UTC SA-70's in it, and made a bunch of records using almost nothing but, that same frame started with 5 of each transformer type in it, so I've used both a lot. The setting of the gain control also changes the feedback amount too, it's also a bit 'no no' in design, and in the original the gain control can really affect the overall response curve. The UTC version later schematic already has a bit of head bump type bottom boost, I don't recall if the Triad type did or not. So these look super-bitchin' (it's a sad day when a Zappa-esque thing like "bitchin' " gets autocorrected to 'bitcoin' every damn time) with the big rack also kind looking like the RCA modular approach, and it's impressive to commit to building CA-70's with vintage caps and everything, that's a tough parts hunt these days. The feedback control and EQ are logical design extensions that should be really useful. Collins, yeah, they are cool. Another one I've had many variations of. Are you working on those next, or does my no time havin' ass still have wiggle room on that product? Thanks Dude! We love your posts! Jim is in a mix session but he might jump in later to discuss his experiences with the various SA-70s hes kicked around the block etc. You're right on in that its like having a built in limiter - The EF86 circuit behaves in a similar fashion as well - just not as heavy handed. No Collins style anything in the works over here - its all yours bro! /ss/
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 15, 2016 20:06:28 GMT -6
So - yeah - I think the 286 is a little cleaner/open than the CA-70? That sound right? I'm hesitant to post the song I just finished because I went a little too dark and then had to compensate...and I'm fighting some 2-3khz pinch with the mic...so, I don't want to give the wrong impression of the mic pre because of my shitty engineering skills. lol.
I'll do some vocal files on each, though and post up.
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Post by Coil Audio on Jul 15, 2016 21:12:07 GMT -6
So - yeah - I think the 286 is a little cleaner/open than the CA-70? That sound right? I'm hesitant to post the song I just finished because I went a little too dark and then had to compensate...and I'm fighting some 2-3khz pinch with the mic...so, I don't want to give the wrong impression of the mic pre because of my shitty engineering skills. lol. I'll do some vocal files on each, though and post up. You are correct - the 286 has the sheen one would expect from the EF86s. If you're feeling a bit shy/neurotic/underwhelmed about your song we could post up some multi-track drums or piano we tracked a few weeks ago. Was gonna try to save that for another thread but we can toss a little sample of it up here if you want.
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Post by tasteliketape on Jul 15, 2016 21:27:35 GMT -6
So - yeah - I think the 286 is a little cleaner/open than the CA-70? That sound right? I'm hesitant to post the song I just finished because I went a little too dark and then had to compensate...and I'm fighting some 2-3khz pinch with the mic...so, I don't want to give the wrong impression of the mic pre because of my shitty engineering skills. lol. I'll do some vocal files on each, though and post up. You are correct - the 286 has the sheen one would expect from the EF86s. If you're feeling a bit shy/neurotic/underwhelmed about your song we could post up some multi-track drums or piano we tracked a few weeks ago. Was gonna try to save that for another thread but we can toss a little sample of it up here if you want. Don't know if you know this but John has a killer voice and a great song writer Even his bad vocals are great lol
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 15, 2016 21:31:27 GMT -6
You are correct - the 286 has the sheen one would expect from the EF86s. If you're feeling a bit shy/neurotic/underwhelmed about your song we could post up some multi-track drums or piano we tracked a few weeks ago. Was gonna try to save that for another thread but we can toss a little sample of it up here if you want. Don't know if you know this but John has a killer voice and a great song writer Even his bad vocals are great lol You need to do a road trip down here so we can get a demo!
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Post by jayfitz on Jul 15, 2016 23:11:38 GMT -6
Don't know if you know this but John has a killer voice and a great song writer Even his bad vocals are great lol You need to do a road trip down here so we can get a demo! Eric, as a dealer for Coil, and if you are considering a purchase, we have a demo unit that we could send your way, just for that reason. Just reach out: info@dspdoctor.com.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 16, 2016 11:37:42 GMT -6
Oh - I didn't take it that way tasteliketape. I just know that I'm not completely happy with the way the vocal turned out (but it's good enough for a demo) - but it wasn't the pre's fault. Like I said, I rolled off too much, then compensated and then the sibilance got weird. I might just re-sing altogether... But I'm definitely going to post some files comparing each. Have some time today.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 16, 2016 13:52:39 GMT -6
You need to do a road trip down here so we can get a demo! Eric, as a dealer for Coil, and if you are considering a purchase, we have a demo unit that we could send your way, just for that reason. Just reach out: info@dspdoctor.com. Thanks for the offer Jay, but Joel is just down the street so I think that would be the easy way to put together something for the KC crew! Now if you have something you would like a bunch of us to play with that is worthy of some makeing a roadtrip we would have no problem adding to our demo!
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Post by Coil Audio on Jul 18, 2016 1:04:49 GMT -6
jayfitz - Have you guys tried them on the back-end of the Pluto Plate? I'd love to hear that combo! Stu Should be excellent in this application - Phil Manley (from the band Trans Am) used them for his plate with great results at his El Studio in San Francisco. The Pluto Plate really looks incredible - id love to hear a clip of it.
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Post by jayfitz on Jul 18, 2016 11:33:17 GMT -6
Eric, as a dealer for Coil, and if you are considering a purchase, we have a demo unit that we could send your way, just for that reason. Just reach out: info@dspdoctor.com. Thanks for the offer Jay, but Joel is just down the street so I think that would be the easy way to put together something for the KC crew! Now if you have something you would like a bunch of us to play with that is worthy of some makeing a roadtrip we would have no problem adding to our demo! Ah...got it.
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Post by jayfitz on Jul 18, 2016 11:38:49 GMT -6
jayfitz - Have you guys tried them on the back-end of the Pluto Plate? I'd love to hear that combo! Stu Should be excellent in this application - Phil Manley (from the band Trans Am) used them for his plate with great results at his El Studio in San Francisco. The Pluto Plate really looks incredible - id love to hear a clip of it. We tried that briefly over the weekend...sounded amazeballs! No sample of it to post....yet.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 19, 2016 13:07:50 GMT -6
Just sat down to record. Walked up to the mic and the power went out. Awesome.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 19, 2016 14:11:16 GMT -6
Thanks, Obama
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Post by channelcat on Jul 19, 2016 19:29:17 GMT -6
Thanks for the replies, guys! Jay, was that the 70 or 286? Also, are there separate mic and line ins on these? No bigs, just curious.
Thanks, Stu
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 19, 2016 19:51:18 GMT -6
OK - gonna upload 4 vocal files (I think I'm gonna try box.com so the wavs don't get futzed with)...Here are my thoughts before I do...
I think I like the the CT-110HN transformer more than the CT-110* more in each pre. From what I hear, it just seems like it has a little bigger bottom and a little less pronounced in the mids. I would think for most, the CA-286 with the CT-110HN transformer would absolutely be the ticket - and for me too. The CA-70 with the 110HN was a little more old-school thick, which I find myself really loving...I could see the 286 being badass on acoustic instruments (which I'll try and post before I give them up) and for most singers. Me, I'm a little piercing lol. I didn't get into the Negative Feedback on the files, but maybe I'll do something short just to show what it does.
*The CT-110 is our nickel & iron microphone input transformer based on a punchy 1960's small signal coil. It's perfect for all around use and excels at high transient material. Its design gives it a very forward and rich mid-range, with smooth saturation in the highs and lows.
The CT-110HN is our super-mu microphone input transformer based on a rare 1950's hi-fidelity coil. Detail oriented, it adds an excellent top and bottom extension, and smooth, breathy saturation.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 19, 2016 20:47:22 GMT -6
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