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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 12, 2016 21:39:52 GMT -6
Trying to come out of lost-puppy depression here...so I just got these hooked up. Gonna do some singing on both and actually have a song to put a vocal on and I'm gonna use it. I've actually played around singing through it and man, I immediately bonded with the CA-70. SO MANY tones you can get out of this thing with the Negative Feedback knob...They told me what it does Coil Audio but I could technically tell you...but you turn it one way and it rolls off the top without sounding like rolling off the top...and then turn it the other way...ok, I haven't gotten that far because the one way sounds so ****ing good. My initial impression was that it was this super consistent sounding pre. I always harp on gear staying consistent in the frequency rage no matter the dynamic...and this thing seems to be rock solid. But I'm getting ahead of myself as this is all just from listening through headphones as I'm singing. But - usually if it sounds damn good through cans, then it's even better when committed and listening back. We will see! I could see the Negative Feedback feature being an incredible one-knob tonal sculptor. I could see how it could really help with taking out Chinese zing ...
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Post by jsteiger on Jul 12, 2016 23:39:42 GMT -6
Man oh man I want these.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 13, 2016 7:42:13 GMT -6
Come over and listen, Jeff...
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Post by jsteiger on Jul 13, 2016 8:11:21 GMT -6
Come over and listen, Jeff... Yes I would like to. Swamped today though. How long will you have them for?
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Post by EmRR on Jul 13, 2016 8:21:19 GMT -6
If you want to hear the Gates, I can run any same file through one following a methodology agreement. Mic pad in, or straight in with vastly reduced level, gain at max or any measured amount. Does the CA-70 indicate a position for 'original' operation?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 13, 2016 14:31:52 GMT -6
Come over and listen, Jeff... Yes I would like to. Swamped today though. How long will you have them for? I told them a couple of years.
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Post by roundbadge on Jul 13, 2016 14:53:41 GMT -6
Yes I would like to. Swamped today though. How long will you have them for? I told them a couple of years. Super curious about these . Whats your basic reaction compared to Redd47?
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Post by sozocaps on Jul 13, 2016 15:20:55 GMT -6
Yes I would like to. Swamped today though. How long will you have them for? I told them a couple of years. AHahah... amazing response.... that made me laugh good LOL
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 13, 2016 15:37:51 GMT -6
I told them a couple of years. Super curious about these . Whats your basic reaction compared to Redd47? I only had a day with the Redd. Need to record something with these (tonight) and I'll let you know.
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Post by jsteiger on Jul 14, 2016 9:54:57 GMT -6
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Post by popmann on Jul 14, 2016 10:07:34 GMT -6
Advice? Put an analog EQ on the signal with a hefty (too much) air boost....dial the negative feedback to where it sounds the most euphonically "nice"....and then back the EQ back down to where you want it for tracking. Pointing being--the way that works is way deeper than "EQ"....and thus the settings you might immediately call "darkest" are actually going to bring you the most airy lovely open sounds when you combine with EQ....
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Post by jsteiger on Jul 14, 2016 11:02:57 GMT -6
Advice? Put an analog EQ on the signal with a hefty (too much) air boost....dial the negative feedback to where it sounds the most euphonically "nice"....and then back the EQ back down to where you want it for tracking. Pointing being--the way that works is way deeper than "EQ"....and thus the settings you might immediately call "darkest" are actually going to bring you the most airy lovely open sounds when you combine with EQ.... Boing!
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Post by Coil Audio on Jul 14, 2016 11:15:49 GMT -6
Hello all. Jim Vollentine here from coil audio, super excited to chime in. Love to wax poetic about the glorious tube when not chained to a console. Steve Squire will also be chiming in here.
Doug, as far as the NF stock setting, on ours it's a little clockwise past the center of a 250k linear pot inserted in the feedback loop. There's also a 10k fixed resistor after it. The original had 100k total I believe. For low end, it's just a switch with multiple value caps to tweak the low filtering in the NF loop. Stock sa70 would be -2 on our low eq.
Collins pres huh??
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 14, 2016 12:47:02 GMT -6
Just did a vocal last night with the CA-70 and it was freaking glorious. I overdid the darkness a bit on the NF though. Man, the tonal palette you can get with this is pretty amazing. I'll def try that, popmann. I've still gr the LC40 and LC25 and used them on the vocal. I used the Miktek with Shannon's cap - that is a really good mic, but ultimately, it still can have some pointedness in the top - at least with my voice. And this particular song is suuuuper high so I'm wailing. I'll post when I'm totally done with it. So Jim - when would you use NF adjustments as opposed to the EQ? I basically just left the eq flat and went a little to the right to shave some of the top off with the NF. How do they interact?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 14, 2016 16:49:26 GMT -6
Sorry guys. I'm getting to this...just been pretty unmotivated after all this puppy stuff.
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Post by Coil Audio on Jul 14, 2016 16:57:02 GMT -6
I generally start with the eqs set flat and adjust the NF to taste first, Then tweak the high and low filtering.
Caution, nerdy info to follow.....
For the CA286, the more clockwise the NF, the more reactive the low and high filters, From about 12::00 on, they work, but definately more subtle than on the CA70.
The CA70 is different because of where the NF is picked off in the circuit. The hi works no matter where the NF is, and the low becomes less reactive but works the whole time also. It just becomes more subtle as you go ccw with the NF.
Both low sections in our amps are capacitor tweaks filtering the low end in the NF.
Both the high sections are also caps shunted in to the NF loop. The top selection of each switch removes the cap totally.
Design engineers would generally put these little shunt caps to filter off any RF that leaked in, or roll off the lows that would muck up the broadcast feed. It's kind of like removing the "broadcast filters" in v76s...
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Post by jsteiger on Jul 14, 2016 18:09:50 GMT -6
Wait where is Steve? He doesn't get all nerdy/technical when he talks!
Plus I like how he swears a lot.
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Post by Coil Audio on Jul 14, 2016 19:13:07 GMT -6
Wait where is Steve? He doesn't get all nerdy/technical when he talks! Plus I like how he swears a lot. Haha! Simmer down Steiger! I was replying to Johns question earlier but Jim beat me to it! Jerk! Mine was great - spoke to the simple mangineer and had plenty of great swears and egregious claims too. What can i say - always the bridesmaid....
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Post by Coil Audio on Jul 14, 2016 19:31:33 GMT -6
Hey John, im eager to hear what you think of the CA-286 on your vocal in comparison to the CA-70.
The 286 is my primary 'go to' on vocals due to its detail and clarity in those mid regions- (actually 2 of them with a 436c or Spectra 610 stuck in between is the golden ticket but thats a story for another time)
I am learning there are certain voices that resonate with the CA-70 in wonderful ways though. by default - I sort of had them relegated to drums, bass and lower cycle stuff only mostly because the envelope of those Octals is so f@#kin BIGGG compared to the HIFI sound of the dual ef86s'- but im starting to come around to the vibe of them on 'finer' things now.
<ties on silk patterned neckerchief>
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 14, 2016 19:32:33 GMT -6
I was told there would be no math.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 14, 2016 19:35:40 GMT -6
Hey John, im eager to hear what you think of the CA-286 on your vocal in comparison to the CA-70. The 286 is my primary 'go to' on vocals due to its detail and clarity in those mid regions- (actually 2 of them with a 436c or Spectra 610 stuck in between is the golden ticket but thats a story for another time) I am learning there are certain voices that resonate with the CA-70 in wonderful ways though. by default - I sort of had them relegated to drums, bass and lower cycle stuff only mostly because the envelope of those Octals is so f@#kin BIGGG compared to the HIFI sound of the dual ef86s'- but im starting to come around to the vibe of them on 'finer' things now. <ties on silk patterned neckerchief> Interesting! I haven't spent much time with the 286 yet...through the headphones I went with the 70. I might try the 286 on harms tonight. So - I have a super piercing, hateful, spikey 2khz voice...which one would you suggest?
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Post by Coil Audio on Jul 14, 2016 19:38:20 GMT -6
I was told there would be no math. perhaps some 'math rock' then? Ive got a great riff in 33/8 - in fact ive got several
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Post by Coil Audio on Jul 14, 2016 19:49:26 GMT -6
Hey John, im eager to hear what you think of the CA-286 on your vocal in comparison to the CA-70. The 286 is my primary 'go to' on vocals due to its detail and clarity in those mid regions- (actually 2 of them with a 436c or Spectra 610 stuck in between is the golden ticket but thats a story for another time) I am learning there are certain voices that resonate with the CA-70 in wonderful ways though. by default - I sort of had them relegated to drums, bass and lower cycle stuff only mostly because the envelope of those Octals is so f@#kin BIGGG compared to the HIFI sound of the dual ef86s'- but im starting to come around to the vibe of them on 'finer' things now. <ties on silk patterned neckerchief> Interesting! I haven't spent much time with the 286 yet...through the headphones I went with the 70. I might try the 286 on harms tonight. So - I have a super piercing, hateful, spikey 2khz voice...which one would you suggest? What microphone are you using? That sort of description makes me want to run to an SM7 or a ribbon perhaps -but you might be using something a lil fancier (miktek?). You also have 2 different input transformers to try - one is a high nickel (Grey with Red stripe) and one is a low-nickel (just Grey). Try them both in the 286 (and the 70) if you havent already - see what jumps out at you.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 14, 2016 19:54:32 GMT -6
Well, it's a Miktek CV4 with one of Shannon Rhoades' capsules...In my opinion, an pretty big improvement...but I still struggle with the midrange...But I think it would be an issue with me on any mic. I'll say this - rolling the NF a little to the right (I rolled a little too much on my recording and had to EQ a little back in) completely gave me a different tone (super nice) than I'm used to with this mic!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 14, 2016 19:55:07 GMT -6
I'm really impressed. Gonna attack the 286 with the 41 and 110HN transformers.
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