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Post by rowmat on Jun 19, 2016 18:58:22 GMT -6
We want to get a snare for the studio.
We had a entire kit that belonged to my studio partners son but he has since taken the kit back.
While we have mostly session or hired drummers coming in the most common issue I find is trying to get a fat punchy snare sound when I really want it.
Often the snare is either too thin and cracking when it needs to be fatter or too muted and boxy (like a bongo) when it needs to have more presence and crispness.
We NEVER have hours to spend experimenting on drum sounds during sessions and at the most we get about a hour to set up and mic a kit before we hit record. Unfortunately this is the reality of recording today with ever decreasing budgets.
Somehow you are expected to make shitty drums sound like John Bonham's and Nick Mason's love child in the mix.
Some of my favorite snare sounds are from 'The Wall' which is I believe a Ludwig Black Beauty miked with a KM84.
Obviously we have neither John or Nick (of course John is completely out of the picture) or a mega drumroom but I do have KM84's and a baseline snare sound inside my head (fat, punchy, present) that I'm after.
Suggestions etc?
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Post by sean on Jun 19, 2016 19:09:47 GMT -6
6.5" Black Beauty, super flexible with a wide tuning range, and something any drummer will love playing. A Supraphonic would be a little more affordable and I find aluminum to be a drier sound. I think a 60's Acrolite is a better buy, still can be had for $100-$150.
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Post by Ward on Jun 19, 2016 19:37:06 GMT -6
The single most recorded snare drum in history is the Ludwig 14x5 Supraphonic™ and it is like the Telecaster of drums: No two players ever sound the same on the same snare drum. It is the most responsive snare around and it didn't get to be #1 for no good reason.
It is the first snare drum any studio or drummer should have, then add your Black Beauty, brass piccolo, soprano and on to maple and birch snare drums too.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 19, 2016 20:03:27 GMT -6
6.5" Black Beauty, super flexible with a wide tuning range, and something any drummer will love playing. A Supraphonic would be a little more affordable and I find aluminum to be a drier sound. I think a 60's Acrolite is a better buy, still can be had for $100-$150. +1. |
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Post by terryrocks on Jun 19, 2016 22:35:48 GMT -6
If limited to just two types of snare drums, I would want one snare like a supraphonic for that ringing overtone they're known for and also want a wooden snare for the opposite effect(super dry).
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Post by wiz on Jun 19, 2016 22:55:12 GMT -6
I own both the 6.5 black beauty and the 5 supra phonic...
I use the supra 999 times out of 1000... 8)
I have often wondered about selling the BB 6.5" wonder what they go for now..
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2016 22:56:06 GMT -6
You might think I'm nuts, but at the $100 price tag the Pearl Piccolo is serious business, if you've ever checked any of the work I've posted here, a lot of it is that snare. I would also look to build a collection of cheaper staples rather than blowing it all in one place. Supraphonics are really nice and can be had cheap.
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Post by levon on Jun 19, 2016 23:38:24 GMT -6
I love the Ludwig Corey Miller snare, very affordable and great tone for rock. I also have a Supraphonic, way more expensive but well worth it, a classic. And then there's the Acrolite, amazing snare, affordable and in the Black Beauty/Supraphonic sonic family. I also have a 13" DW Edge, half metal, half wood, which sounds great but may be less versatile.
I'm still intrigued by the Gretsch Taylor Hawkins snare, has anybody played that one?
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Post by sozocaps on Jun 20, 2016 0:16:45 GMT -6
6.5" Black Beauty, super flexible with a wide tuning range, and something any drummer will love playing. A Supraphonic would be a little more affordable and I find aluminum to be a drier sound. I think a 60's Acrolite is a better buy, still can be had for $100-$150. +1. +2 I have one... Very good and the brass snare sometimes sounds wooden kind of.... |
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Post by rowmat on Jun 20, 2016 3:50:46 GMT -6
Okay thanks for the input. I think I'll grab a KM84 and my Sound Devices recorder and mosey on down to a drum store to capture a few snare hits!  |
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Post by Ward on Jun 20, 2016 5:54:48 GMT -6
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Post by levon on Jun 20, 2016 6:12:34 GMT -6
That. And he plays like a mother. |
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Post by pope on Jun 20, 2016 7:02:55 GMT -6
I'm not an expert but I used the black panthers a few times in the past with very good results.
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Post by Ward on Jun 20, 2016 7:10:07 GMT -6
I'm not an expert but I used the black panthers a few times in the past with very good results. and they didn't cause too much social unrest? (going to stand in the corner now... ) |
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Post by pope on Jun 20, 2016 7:30:35 GMT -6
I'm not an expert but I used the black panthers a few times in the past with very good results. and they didn't cause too much social unrest? (going to stand in the corner now... ) Not in the studio  |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 20, 2016 11:29:57 GMT -6
Check out the memphis drum shop website. Every snare they sell they have demos for, at 3 different tuning ranges, different velocities, etc.
If I know a drummer is coming in and doesn't have great gear, I'll bring in an Acrolite, and a deeper wooden snare. I can usually get by with those two between tuning and muting. Generally, I feel like most people over damp snare drums and you wind up with something that's overly dry and difficult to deal with to get a natural sound.
Also, I think most drummers make the mistake of manhandling snare drums and just plain hit WAY too hard. A snare hit in the sweet spot with a medium velocity on a rim shot gives the best recording results for me. The toughest part is reeling in the drummer in my experience.
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Post by junior on Jun 20, 2016 11:59:36 GMT -6
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 20, 2016 12:07:22 GMT -6
This is a pretty decent video...
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 20, 2016 13:32:30 GMT -6
6.5" Black Beauty, super flexible with a wide tuning range, and something any drummer will love playing. A Supraphonic would be a little more affordable and I find aluminum to be a drier sound. I think a 60's Acrolite is a better buy, still can be had for $100-$150. You've been rehabbing some drums right? I've got an Acrolite laying around that needs some TLC. Where are you buying parts? I know I need a lug or two, not sure what else. Haven't taken it out in years. |
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Post by strangeways on Jun 20, 2016 18:05:38 GMT -6
Acrolite. Never bummed when a drummer comes in with one. If I'm bummed with what they do come in with, I'll usually go acrolite or C&C. I owned a Pork Pie BB. Never could get it tuned so it would sound better than my Acro/C&C's. Supraphonic is def a nice snare too, but again, I've picked my Acro over one a few times.
d.
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Post by strangeways on Jun 20, 2016 18:11:43 GMT -6
I also think most snares will give you what you want if you spend the time tuning and trying different heads until you find something that works. Any great snare can sound terrible if it's not tuned well or has the wrong heads on them. I generally go for an coated emperor with a few moon gels or a genera dry for top head. Usually Hazy 300 clear bottom. I use 5.5 deep snares and prefer to tune the bottom head higher (around a fifth) than the top head. Evans heads don't last with a hard hitter, so either buy a bunch and change every couple songs, or go Emperor.
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Post by sean on Jun 20, 2016 20:37:01 GMT -6
I get a lot of vintage parts from members of forums or Facebook groups. New stuff usually Drum Maker, because they are local.
What part do you need for an Acrolite? Ludwig still makes every part you'd need.
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Post by svart on Jun 21, 2016 7:41:02 GMT -6
Ludwig Black Beauty, or the cast hoop version, the Black Magic. The Black Magic gets a lot less love, but you can pick them up new for around 200$ if you shop around. They are brassy, but rather dry, which I like since you don't have to choke them down with moongel. The beads are relatively sharp so you can tune rather drastically. This snare has the largest usable tuning range I've had in a snare drum.
There was a thick brass yamaha snare, the one with the removable lugs, that was a 20lb beast of a snare. If you love the sound of brass, this was the snare, but it rang like no other snare ever.
I have an acrolite, 70's vintage. Never really liked it. None of the drummers have chosen it over the Black Magic though, but I keep it around just in case. The beads are rather round, so it's hard to get a modern snap from it, pretty much always has that 70's THWUMP sound. It's hard to tell if it has a tuning range because it is always THWUMP no matter the head, or the tune. Has a pretty dry crack if you tune it up high though.
I have a 14x7 walnut stave snare I built. A couple people have chosen it, but it's rather strange overtones are sometimes clashing. It has a woody crack, but long ring. It definitely has a sweet spot for tuning. Get outside that and it's dead.
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Post by schmalzy on Jun 21, 2016 9:11:04 GMT -6
Ludwig Black Beauty, or the cast hoop version, the Black Magic. The Black Magic gets a lot less love, but you can pick them up new for around 200$ if you shop around. They are brassy, but rather dry, which I like since you don't have to choke them down with moongel. The beads are relatively sharp so you can tune rather drastically. This snare has the largest usable tuning range I've had in a snare drum. A drummer friend of mine has a Black Magic (plus a bunch of other snare drums). He swears by it up and down. If he needs a snare that falls into the background he'll pick something else, but he's using that Black Magic for most of the "snare drum needs to be heard" songs. |
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Post by Ward on Jun 21, 2016 9:12:22 GMT -6
I agree with svart on the Black Magic. Rather brassy and dry... not much like a Black Beauty or Supraphonic at all. Does it beat out an Acrolite? No doubt! |
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