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Post by popmann on Nov 4, 2017 17:09:31 GMT -6
I logged in and downloaded. Haven't had a chance to try....but, hopefully, it includes the Voce MidiDrawbar preset in the controller presets now--I gave them tons of MIDI info--recorded CC ranges and old implementation charts. They said it would be in the next official release.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 5, 2017 11:06:48 GMT -6
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Post by popmann on Nov 5, 2017 14:08:14 GMT -6
I play the fake ones on a 88 key weighted board now, so.... #sacriledge
when my synth action board started to go....I already had the C3, which was all I really did with synth action for years previous.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 5, 2017 15:02:51 GMT -6
“Feel” is the least of my problems lol
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Post by popmann on Nov 5, 2017 17:34:08 GMT -6
Waterfall action seems easy to make me happy with emulation....I mean--all of the duplicate it well to me. It's just a "nothing" synth action--only they go all the way down at the end like a piano, without the "lip"....It's not like a Hammond "feels" unique to me. Any Cx3 or various waterfall organ emus are fine. The thing they have trouble with (from a playing perspective) is latency. A Hammond is IMMEDIATE....I mean like....well, come over and play. Unlike pianos and EPs where you have a key moving a hammer to strike something....the organ is OOOONNN as soon as your finger is down. So, some of the better emulation boads actually trigger the note on message at like 60-70% throw--so that the note IS on when the key gets to the bottom of the press. Luckily, I've nicknamed myself "SlowerHand" , so it doesn't directly effect my playing--but, I DO feel it....and thus I get how for guys who really tear it up, that might be an issue.
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Post by popmann on Aug 11, 2018 9:31:29 GMT -6
This is a frustrating instrument. It sounds lovely....but, they've not gotten past the limitation of sample layer in emulating a hammond. Glissando. Which isn't some esoteric technique....I dare someone to find me a rock/pop/blues hammond tune that the player DOESN'T lay palm to keyboard repeatedly. It's like making a cello instrument that doesn't BOW. Or maybe more apropos doesn't bow any short articulations--like you get long fluid bowing, and pizzacato plucking. Anyway....
It's frustrating. I have to put my new Naus box on 512 samples to get it to Glissando without overing the VST engine. No matter what I set the streaming settings on in the UVI engine. It will do it--unlike the Macbook on any settings....but, it's sitting on a drive that's EXPONENTIALLY faster at random read time than the magnetic drives they SAY they support....and yet, palm down it will take it from 5% CPU use to over and back once you let up.
Which brings me to the UVI engine. Is tHere's NO WAY to turn off disk streaming? Really? Am I missing a configuration? I just see where you adjust the buffering indirectly by telling it what kind of HD it's on....I've tried telling it it's on a slow USB1 drive so it will buffer more (despite being on a dedicated 970evo)...nope. It might make it a LITTLE better...don't make me get out a RAM drive here....
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Post by drbill on Aug 11, 2018 9:48:56 GMT -6
Ugh. This is exactly one of the areas that I didn't find satisfactory in the demo. And one of the main areas that everything I've tried falls down in. I'm probably going to get both the B5 and the Hammr+ and the Melda leslie sim (even though I've got a real 122) and see what happens, I'm just trying to find an excuse to to not go out and buy the real thing. Just passed on two nice ones - A nicely kept B and a cool cut down A100. Just not a lot of room for it here, and I want a 7' Yamaha too.... Was hoping for a better report. I'm a notorious palm gliss guy....
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 11, 2018 11:19:27 GMT -6
This is a frustrating instrument. It sounds lovely....but, they've not gotten past the limitation of sample layer in emulating a hammond. Glissando. Which isn't some esoteric technique....I dare someone to find me a rock/pop/blues hammond tune that the player DOESN'T lay palm to keyboard repeatedly. It's like making a cello instrument that doesn't BOW. Or maybe more apropos doesn't bow any short articulations--like you get long fluid bowing, and pizzacato plucking. Anyway.... It's frustrating. I have to put my new Naus box on 512 samples to get it to Glissando without overing the VST engine. No matter what I set the streaming settings on in the UVI engine. It will do it--unlike the Macbook on any settings....but, it's sitting on a drive that's EXPONENTIALLY faster at random read time than the magnetic drives they SAY they support....and yet, palm down it will take it from 5% CPU use to over and back once you let up. Which brings me to the UVI engine. Is tHere's NO WAY to turn off disk streaming? Really? Am I missing a configuration? I just see where you adjust the buffering indirectly by telling it what kind of HD it's on....I've tried telling it it's on a slow USB1 drive so it will buffer more (despite being on a dedicated 970evo)...nope. It might make it a LITTLE better...don't make me get out a RAM drive here.... I’ve often wondered about this...never been able to duplicate it. I honestly just assumed I didn’t know what I was doing. If they can’t emulate that rumbling motor wildcat scream, then why not offer a sample of it?
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 11, 2018 11:20:27 GMT -6
Ugh. This is exactly one of the areas that I didn't find satisfactory in the demo. And one of the main areas that everything I've tried falls down in. I'm probably going to get both the B5 and the Hammr+ and the Melda leslie sim (even though I've got a real 122) and see what happens, I'm just trying to find an excuse to to not go out and buy the real thing. Just passed on two nice ones - A nicely kept B and a cool cut down A100. Just not a lot of room for it here, and I want a 7' Yamaha too.... Was hoping for a better report. I'm a notorious palm gliss guy.... Did you try the B5 with the Melda? I thought it took it to another level.
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Post by popmann on Aug 11, 2018 11:33:10 GMT -6
All the sample based ones will have the same issue....you might be able to use Kontakt's tweaky config stuff to get around it. Are you not on a Mac? The LPX organ is nearly as good....and run out through a Leslie? No way I could tell the difference. Which is true of ALL modelers.
The Hammr doesn't sound right to me. At all. I don't know why anyone would pay it attention--it's not only a Spinal Tapian sample based solution....in the shitty sampler that is Kontakt....but, has buttons to disable drawbars (to try to avoid that polyphony) AND doesn't sound as good as Amel's organ in LPX.
This DOES....sound right. Out of the box. No need for a secondary fake Leslie...I keep their's on high, but I'm not sure what difference that 1% of the 8700 makes.....I keep it on the 69 C3, because it sounds spot on like my 72/3 (last GOOD year?) C3.....it's bright in the RIGHT way....not in that "weird way". Like the VB3II is a hard pass for me....I tried that Blue3....nope....are people deaf? Amels did it right. There's a hint of "that" modeling high end thing....I"ve never spent any time tweaking it because this is ALL for demos for me....it would be interesting to hear it running through the Leslie of this B5....but, I don't see where you can do an audio input to it....
Anyway....at some point, I'll see if a RAM Drive for it will alleviate it, if UVI can't turn off streaming. IT's literally all I have....well--I own their Wurlie, but I end up using the Kronos more for that....Keyscape lately, but that's harder to drive for me....anyway--functionally, it's all I have UVI for. I've got this install simple for keys...B5, Ivory AmericanD, Keyscape(plus Kronos)=keyboards. And, you know--in Cubase the 512 buffer is irrelevant, since the instrument track will run at what 128? Something like that....apparently Cubase handles the multithreading better than UVI stand alone. So, inside Cubase I have to set it to 512--but, that's not an issue....stand alone I STILL have to set it to 512, and is unacceptable. In Mixbus, I think 512 still gives issues-but I don't remember exactly. I know I was working on a client tune in MB32c--using the plug to work up the part before I wheel the 122 out into the room and mic it up....and I couldn't do it, so I moved his tracks to Cubase.
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Post by popmann on Aug 11, 2018 11:41:55 GMT -6
You've never been able to duplicate it, John? You mean the problem I'm talking about? You can palm gliss on the instrument without it pitching out? I don't even have to SLIDE. Spread palm....hit board. CPU goes from a 5% ideal to over.
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Post by drbill on Aug 11, 2018 11:49:15 GMT -6
Ugh. This is exactly one of the areas that I didn't find satisfactory in the demo. And one of the main areas that everything I've tried falls down in. I'm probably going to get both the B5 and the Hammr+ and the Melda leslie sim (even though I've got a real 122) and see what happens, I'm just trying to find an excuse to to not go out and buy the real thing. Just passed on two nice ones - A nicely kept B and a cool cut down A100. Just not a lot of room for it here, and I want a 7' Yamaha too.... Was hoping for a better report. I'm a notorious palm gliss guy.... Did you try the B5 with the Melda? I thought it took it to another level. Not yet. I intend to!!
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 11, 2018 11:51:47 GMT -6
You've never been able to duplicate it, John? You mean the problem I'm talking about? You can palm gliss on the instrument without it pitching out? I don't even have to SLIDE. Spread palm....hit board. CPU goes from a 5% ideal to over. Maybe I’m misunderstanding. I was saying I can’t get that screaming glissando to sound like this: Mind you, I’m also trying to do this on a semi-weighted keyboard. Speaking of which - I think I might just sell that thing. I can’t ever seem to get that roar...but seriously, maybe I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m gonna go practice the Big Kahuna’s smear technique.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 11, 2018 11:52:31 GMT -6
You've never been able to duplicate it, John? You mean the problem I'm talking about? You can palm gliss on the instrument without it pitching out? I don't even have to SLIDE. Spread palm....hit board. CPU goes from a 5% ideal to over. Oh - and no...no issues with it spiking
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Post by popmann on Aug 11, 2018 12:03:26 GMT -6
It runs in Cantible fine at 128. So, Stand alone has the issue....and running inside a project, be it Cubase or Mixbus on either OS....or Logic on OS X, spikes unless you give it big clearance in the buffer. I can make it breakup some at 64....but, 128 seems solid....part of the issue is that I don't use it a lot, because-- you know....real one 30 seconds away from playing....so, I don't have the incentive to figure out what it's issue is like I was for Keyscape. Which...if ANYONE doubts, is bottlenecked on the drive. I can literally WATCH the temp go to 90+deg on the 970evo with the single instance of Keyscape playing. Not now that I've got it all heatsinked....but, prior doing that....unlike previous gens I didn't see it thermal throttle, but....that amazed me....previous gens wrote what 70c and it was back to SATA like speed?
what are you generally running it in, John?
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Post by popmann on Aug 11, 2018 12:09:46 GMT -6
FWIW....on technique....I've done in on weighted boards for years. It's not ideal....but, neither is Unweighted with the flat key fronts....they actually can be worse--like it takes more hand strength to do it on the wighted, but it won't GRAB your hand. If your "semi weighted" has fronts that go all the way down, it might be as close to ideal as you'll get without an actual waterfall keybed like an organ.
If he didn't mention it in the video--put you hand out, palm down and bend your fingers backwards....as much as you can....I mean--they don't (obviously) need to bend way backwards--but, I'm sitting on the white keys with that shape palm and the fingers are grazing the black keys. as I go up. For my playing, I tend to use it as a transitional thing--like hold a C triad....and that motion slurs up to say an F....less sliding over the whole board. I think better players do that LESS, IME....but, it's just a way I've always dealt with not having my sustain pedal.
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Post by ragan on Aug 11, 2018 12:13:41 GMT -6
I bought a second hand Melda Vintage Rotary license (was gonna buy it full price anyway) and I reckon I’ll end up with this (B5). Hammr+ sounds better from demos but again, the Hammr+ Rowe demos have cool vibes stuff being played. All the B5 demos are Gospel City.
Either way though I’m sure B5 is very good. I’m just not gonna shell out for a Kontakt license with a bunch of stuff I’ll never use. And my main complaint about the B5 demo ABs has been the Leslie part of the simulation. Every VI sounds better through the Melda.
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Post by popmann on Aug 11, 2018 13:23:18 GMT -6
Amount of money I'm willing to give ANYONE for a Kontakt library? $0.00 NI sealed that in a LONG time ago for me. I will spend whatever it takes to deal with their garbage as little as possible...
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Post by ragan on Aug 17, 2018 0:26:51 GMT -6
Got the B5/Melda combo going. It's pretty remarkable. This'll do just fine.
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Post by ragan on Aug 17, 2018 21:21:12 GMT -6
Played it more. This is amazing.
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Post by Quint on Aug 17, 2018 22:08:41 GMT -6
Got the B5/Melda combo going. It's pretty remarkable. This'll do just fine. Are there any latency issues?
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Post by ragan on Aug 17, 2018 22:09:56 GMT -6
Got the B5/Melda combo going. It's pretty remarkable. This'll do just fine. Are there any latency issues? It behaves like a normal virtual instrument here. If the buffer’s low it plays great and if the buffer’s high there’s a lag. Is that what you mean?
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Post by Quint on Aug 17, 2018 23:21:10 GMT -6
Are there any latency issues? It behaves like a normal virtual instrument here. If the buffer’s low it plays great and if the buffer’s high there’s a lag. Is that what you mean? Yes. I was just curious if running through B5 and then Melda after would cause some latency issues while playing.
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Post by ragan on Aug 17, 2018 23:32:02 GMT -6
It behaves like a normal virtual instrument here. If the buffer’s low it plays great and if the buffer’s high there’s a lag. Is that what you mean? Yes. I was just curious if running through B5 and then Melda after would cause some latency issues while playing. Gotcha. Nope, they're both zero latency.
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Post by drbill on Aug 18, 2018 9:43:27 GMT -6
Played it more. This is amazing. Glad to hear you're happy!
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