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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 3, 2013 8:15:54 GMT -6
Keep in mind, guys - I seem to be somewhat of a special case in the 1-4khz range. I have a problem with every mic I've used in that area. So - what might be good for me, might not be the best for someone else. Anyway, we're getting together Tuesday to put down some official soundfiles...and will probably tweak a little then to get it perfect.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 3, 2013 8:21:27 GMT -6
Keep in mind, guys - I seem to be somewhat of a special case in the 1-4khz range. I have a problem with every mic I've used in that area. So - what might be good for me, might not be the best for someone else. Anyway, we're getting together Tuesday to put down some official soundfiles...and will probably tweak a little then to get it perfect. I thought about that when I first heard the files. Can't wait to hear it on my daughters voice!
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Post by joey808 on Aug 3, 2013 17:27:21 GMT -6
Great News!
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 4, 2013 12:34:33 GMT -6
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Post by joey808 on Aug 4, 2013 13:07:58 GMT -6
sounding great!
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Post by wiz on Aug 4, 2013 16:41:09 GMT -6
that sounds really, really, REALLY great.
also, sidebar, I really like the levels you track at... kudos.
great stuff
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 4, 2013 21:56:29 GMT -6
I actually had a respected engineer around town ask me to record louder...funny...
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 9, 2013 21:49:22 GMT -6
I got the mic back from Sinsay. It actually sounds better than I expected. I had a singer/songwriter friend of mine in here from Nashvagas and he did some vocal tests for me so I could tweak around on a chain. Believe I found one what do you think? Big file 88.2/32 print so it might be better to right click and download. dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/65640533/Memories%20Of%20Us%2088.2%20k.wavI'll also post this example in the main CV-4 thread.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 9, 2013 22:06:39 GMT -6
Dang, that's clean. Good vocalist, good sound, I'd say that's pro. At this level, it's all about best choice for the artist, the quality of that mic can't be faulted.
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bruce
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by bruce on Oct 20, 2013 1:20:49 GMT -6
Thank you all for this thread. I have a CV4, and I'm not 100% pleased with it, but for mostly different reasons than the rest of you. I'm still not sure what to do with the mic, and I appreciate this discussion. The mic is only for my vocals, and nothing else. I really like the top-end of the CV4, and the lack of sibilance. I'm a baritone, and never especially noticed the zing/sizzle. I'm also not familiar with the 251, and did some searching online for audio clips. I found this on YouTube: I was so shocked by the distortion that I started a thread over on GS to get some opinions. About half of the comments either thought this was due to the mic, or something in the chain, like perhaps an overdriven preamp. However, even if I had $9,000 to spend, based upon what I hear in this demo I wouldn't buy a 251. The main weakness I don't like about the CV4 is the lack of low end, since this is what helps define my voice. At one point I tried to force the bass by exploring the proximity effect, but discovered that the CV4 has very little proximity effect. I've also learned from an engineer familiar with recording voices like mine that my mic placement was incorrect. Instead of placing the mic in front of the mouth/nose, for me, it should be 2-3 feet in front of the upper chest/throat area to capture more of the chest frequencies. Perhaps with the more distant placement, and my lower voice, the zing won't be such an issue. Another concern is the fact that I'm considering purchasing a Maag PreQ4 preamp, for the "Air Band" shelf boost. But since I don't like the zing, perhaps this would be a bad combination even post-mod? Could the remaining zing be notched out without affecting the character of the recording? Thoughts? Thanks for your help!
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 20, 2013 6:55:36 GMT -6
It's funny you mention the low end or lack thereof. Take that example you posted of Amazing Grace. Sounds good like it is. But put that same vocal in a busy mix. You'd end up cutting, cutting and cutting the low end to get it to sit and pop out in the mix. This has been my number one objective in recording vocals: to try and find a way to represent the whole vocal, low end and all in a mix like I hear on some top 40 recordings. I've found that a lot of this is accomplished with the preamp, not the mic. But, the higher the quality of mic, the better the result as well, concerning the low end.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 20, 2013 7:53:33 GMT -6
That's Ann Marie Boskovich...love her...I think I have a couple of songs with her singing on a stock CV4...That vocal sounded a little saturated, but calling it "distorted" is a little over the top in my opinion. We never see what kind of pre they're using, do we? Honestly, that sounds like a driven pre to me...like driving a Neve to 45-50 DBs or something. Sound like that to you, cowboycoalminer
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Post by Mark Kano on Oct 20, 2013 8:18:59 GMT -6
I'm hearing more of a rasp/distortion coming from her voice rather than the mic... around 25-35 seconds in. Nice thick midrange on this mic. Definitely rich, but I wouldn't call this distorted.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 20, 2013 8:47:49 GMT -6
That's Ann Marie Boskovich...love her...I think I have a couple of songs with her singing on a stock CV4...That vocal sounded a little saturated, but calling it "distorted" is a little over the top in my opinion. We never see what kind of pre they're using, do we? Honestly, that sounds like a driven pre to me...like driving a Neve to 45-50 DBs or something. Sound like that to you, cowboycoalminerYeah. It's a Neve style pre. There also using a compressor on it too. On the line " once WAS lost" when she works the mic, I can still hear the compressor working. LA2A probably or something like it. @ the gang, I sure didn't mean to imply that vocal sounds bad. It sounds great to me.
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bruce
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by bruce on Oct 20, 2013 9:43:29 GMT -6
Thank you all for your comments. I didn't mean to imply that the singer was at fault -- she's definitely got the chops, although a bit too theatrical for my taste here. My concern is that a CV4 mod to sound like a 251 also recreates this "overdriven/zing/sizzle" -- which I don't like. I'm glad that a couple of you agree that it's due to something in the chain rather than the mic itself. I've listened to all the samples posted here and the other thread, and while the zing seems muted by the mod, I still hear it. Would my voice and mic placement help reduce it even further? What about notching? This recording was made live with one of those teeny-tiny wireless units: My voice isn't as bel canto as Nathan Gunn, but this is an example of what I'd like to achieve. Have they just EQ'd the heck out of the signal from his headset? (When he gets soft and breathy, I think I can notice the tell-tale thump of an over-enthusiastic EQ.) I don't want to load up this thread with YouTube links, but his recording of Shenandoah (also on YouTube) is one of the top-ten most beautiful recordings by a baritone...however...it lacks the bass in the above-linked performance of If I Would Ever Leave You. I appreciate your input. To pull the trigger on the mod, I know, is a little of a leap of faith. I'm on limited funds, and I want to be as sure as I can beforehand that I can end up with the results I'm looking for.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 20, 2013 10:21:40 GMT -6
Bruce, from what i've listened to, just send your mic to Shannon at mic rehab, dudes a monster, the CV4 before and afters on the sticky above speak for themselves, also cowboy, JK, and matkat all rave about the mods they've gotten, and all their work sounds really really good. The last thing you want, is to HAVE to use an eq to make a mic sound "right"(HP filtering aside). IMO These are the characteristics that separate meh.. mics from great mics. Razory S's, T's, resonance or zing at 8-10k and an overall lurchyness (regardless of vocal/mic technique), great mics have natural S's, T's, and a smooth almost compressed, or high headroom response to dynamics(even with pretty bad vocal/mic tech) These are the specifics i look for when assessing the quality, or lack there of in a mic. Personally, I almost never eq on the way in, mic choice/placement should get the job done.
good luck T
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 20, 2013 11:52:39 GMT -6
Bruce By that last sample you provided, if that's the sound your looking for, that can easily be achieved with the CV-4. Finding the right proximity is the key. My guess is with that voice, start out a foot or more away. You'll still get the bass you want without having to HP so much. I'd add that it's not just back and forth to a mic, it's up and down and side to side to find the sweet spot. Two identical CV-4's might have different sweet spots.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 20, 2013 11:55:11 GMT -6
I would just move on, Bruce. Might not be for you.
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Post by tasteliketape on Oct 21, 2013 10:13:05 GMT -6
Received my final cv4 tweak from micrehab yesterday only heard at shannons on head phones not a 251 not a 47 but is very very smmooooth high lows mid very nice will post samples soon were headin home from Nashville Ps also a big thanks to Randy Kohrs for his time an tips also shannon at mic rehab
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 21, 2013 10:40:00 GMT -6
Received my final cv4 tweak from micrehab yesterday only heard at shannons on head phones not a 251 not a 47 but is very very smmooooth high lows mid very nice will post samples soon were headin home from Nashville Ps also a big thanks to Randy Kohrs for his time an tips also shannon at mic rehab cool, looking forward to hearing your impressions on it, thanx for reporting
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bruce
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by bruce on Oct 21, 2013 12:05:13 GMT -6
Thank you everyone for your help and sharing your experience. I look forward to hearing more sound files, too!
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Post by subhumanrecords on Apr 6, 2014 19:14:45 GMT -6
Any mic that Shannon sprinkles his unicorn piss on is worth every penny and more. He is the mic-man of all time. Hit me up Shannon.
Recording 2 inches @ a Time(plus PT)
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2014 19:21:40 GMT -6
I just produced an EP on an artist and used the modded CV4...awesome.
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Post by subhumanrecords on Apr 6, 2014 20:06:59 GMT -6
Do u live in Nashville? I lived there from 2002-2005. Interned at Soundstage for about a year. I'm in Nashville at least once a month.
Recording 2 inches @ a Time(plus PT)
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2014 20:39:45 GMT -6
Yeah. Actually just had Decker mix some of this record.
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