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Post by Ward on Dec 23, 2015 4:59:52 GMT -6
Updated the output capacitor on the SA2A with a Mundorf Supreme. It was a lot bigger than I thought but I made it work. Also updated some other caps. I can't leave anything alone. View AttachmentWhat was your reason for such a change? What was the result? I might like to follow your lead on this one!
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 23, 2015 8:01:27 GMT -6
Updated the output capacitor on the SA2A with a Mundorf Supreme. It was a lot bigger than I thought but I made it work. Also updated some other caps. I can't leave anything alone. What was your reason for such a change? What was the result? I might like to follow your lead on this one! Count me in as well. Very curious about this.
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Post by winetree on Dec 23, 2015 12:05:42 GMT -6
Just got an email from Joshua, Stam Audio, stating if I replaced C10, I should also remove/replace C25 also. Emailed him back for clarification of the remove/replace C25. I'll updated soon.
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Post by stam on Dec 23, 2015 12:06:19 GMT -6
If you are going to upgrade the output capacitor then I recommend you use a Solen Fast 10uf/600V one on C10.
It´s only 7 dollars or so and it´s the one I am using on the new batch.
C25 is no longer needed if you replace C10, C25 is there to improve the performance of C10, it was an easy solution and cost effective.
The reason to upgrade the output capacitor it´s because it passes audio and it might have a positive effect on it, I doubt you will be able to hear it at all but it will not worsen the unit of course.
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Post by winetree on Dec 23, 2015 13:24:19 GMT -6
Here's what I read about the difference in the two caps for SA2A - C10 replacement. I used the more expensive Mundorf Supreme compared to the Solen Fast cap.
Sound: The MCap Supreme delivers an open and spatial sound with lots of depth. Good reproduction of the musical nuances with detail and depth from the high treble right down into the low mid-range without exaggerating things. Clear and transparent sounding cap with a good sound stage. They provide a good improvement in clarity, focus and dynamics compared to standard quality MKP's and sound "meatier" than the Mundorf MCap EVO Silver Gold Oil, more mature and a tad warmer sounding as well. The degree of improvement is comparable to upgrading to high-end cables and interconnects. I must say I was impressed when I first auditioned them several years ago and still like to use them. Where as cheaper capacitors get can lost when fed complex materal, the Mundorf MCap Supreme keeps the overview on things like a full scale orchestra. I also found that the Mundorf MCap Supreme mixes very nicely with Clarity Cap SA capacitors. Verdict: 10
Sound: The Solen Châteauroux Fast cap is a good step–up from MKT capacitors often found in standard quality factory built units. Like the standard Intertechnik Audyn Cap nothing wrong with them but also nothing exciting, but if I had to choose between the two I would still go for the Solen, they seem to have a fraction more “musicality” to them. Compared with electrolytics they have much more detail, smoothness and a wider stereo image. Compared to a Mundorf Supreme Cap they sound closed-in. Midrange is slightly forward compared to more neutral caps, they can be a little nasal sounding in some configurations. D If you have a tight budget then this is a good choice! Verdict: 6+
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Post by stam on Dec 23, 2015 13:48:31 GMT -6
We ran about a dozen blind tests with "golden" ears producers and mixers on the SA-2A. Everybody could hear the difference in the T4B or transformers, about half of them could hear the difference when replacing tubes, particularly good NOS tubes, 9 out of 10 could not hear anything different when switching capacitors.
I don´t believe everything I read, no matter who wrote it, you have to trust measurings and your ears above all. Perhaps in guitar amps or other devices caps make a larger difference, replacing one cap in a optical attenuator based compressor with transformers and old tubes is like changing a guitar string while playing power chords through a messa boogie with gain at 11 (yes, eleven, louder than ten).
Barely noticable but still, an improvement.
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Post by rocinante on Dec 23, 2015 13:56:40 GMT -6
Interesting. That cap is a subject of endless debate. Ive read and discussed it with designers and engineers on either side regarding its sonic qualities. Both had convincing and detailed arguments. I do know this; If you stick a cheap nichison in there it wont sound as good as the pricier solen fast cap, which is in the end what i went for. All in all it makes a difference im just not sure how much.
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Post by wiz on Dec 28, 2015 18:14:42 GMT -6
stamI bought a SA2A on eBay... can you just confirm you got the order.. and I also asked a question about T4 cells, and duty coming into Oz... hit me up to let me know you got it through please looking forward to a bit of STAMmering in the new year 8) cheers Wiz
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Post by EmRR on Dec 29, 2015 9:41:10 GMT -6
That cap is a subject of endless debate. Ive read and discussed it with designers and engineers on either side regarding its sonic qualities. The other 'old dead guy' trick no one ever seems to know about is to reverse the order of the cap and output transformer, putting cap to ground and transformer to plate.
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Post by Ward on Dec 29, 2015 10:42:21 GMT -6
That cap is a subject of endless debate. Ive read and discussed it with designers and engineers on either side regarding its sonic qualities. The other 'old dead guy' trick no one ever seems to know about is to reverse the order of the cap and output transformer, putting cap to ground and transformer to plate. Won't that burn out the cap prematurely and also require a serious 'emptying' of the cap every time you open the case, to avoid potential electrocution? Is the difference in sound worth it? I'm no expert, just been shocked a few times in the past - thanks to tanked-up capacitors!
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Post by EmRR on Dec 29, 2015 10:51:11 GMT -6
If we are talking about an LA-2A, which I believe we are, it's normally plate to cap to transformer to ground. No DC flowing. The cap it at DC potential. No significant difference in potential if you reverse the order of cap and transformer, except the transformer is now at an elevated potential, and the cap is at a lesser potential. No DC flowing either way. Some believe it sounds better. The only difference is elevation of DC voltage at the transformer relative to ground. Any quality transformer designed for this job should have more than acceptable insulation for the job. No one should have their hand carelessly near either setup.
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 29, 2015 12:06:20 GMT -6
So we're talking about adding DC to the transformer, is the objective to induce quicker saturation?
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Post by EmRR on Dec 29, 2015 12:50:23 GMT -6
You aren't adding DC, there's still a cap blocking it. You are simply changing the relationship order of the two parts to achieve the same end goal: no current flow. There's roughly 100VDC at that tube connection point. Another related option that was frequently used 80 years ago:
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Post by Ward on Dec 29, 2015 13:48:52 GMT -6
Why, this just keeps getting curiouser and curiouser!
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Post by winetree on Dec 29, 2015 14:00:21 GMT -6
Updated the output capacitor on the SA2A with a Mundorf Supreme. It was a lot bigger than I thought but I made it work. Also updated some other caps. I can't leave anything alone. All I did was upgraded the output Cap as suggested by Stam. Now we're doing mods. I'm just a solder jockey and don't understand all this. Is the mod something that will make it sound or perform better?
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Post by EmRR on Dec 29, 2015 14:00:31 GMT -6
Just to point out, if you are gonna play with the caps, this is one more way to do it. It might or might not be an audible option, could be more, could be less, than using a different cap.
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Post by winetree on Dec 29, 2015 14:06:28 GMT -6
O.K. So the mod could be done instead of the C10 cap upgrade. Seeing I already upgraded the cap, I'm going to leave mine unit as is, unless I hear of some great improvement. I only upgraded the cap in one of my units so I can do a comparison between the upgraded one and the original cap.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 29, 2015 14:25:56 GMT -6
Or on the untouched one, swap the transformer and cap positions. Or not. Another option. Knowledge is a dangerous thing.
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Post by rocinante on Dec 29, 2015 17:07:23 GMT -6
Or on the untouched one, swap the transformer and cap positions. Or not. Another option. Knowledge is a dangerous thing. Yeah it is. And addictive.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 29, 2015 17:10:22 GMT -6
Of course this may not be as easy a swap in practice as it is in theory, depending on the board layout.
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