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Post by winetree on Aug 24, 2015 12:14:53 GMT -6
bought 2 ( still in the box ) @ 199.00 each. Just called Sweetwater to see what they can do to save me $100.00
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Post by plinker on Aug 24, 2015 14:08:51 GMT -6
Seems like they are practically giving them away. Getting ready to discontinue? I remember Sweetwater dumped all the Aphex 500 modules a few months ago when Aphex chose to discontinue the format. Crazy deals on very good units.
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Post by plinker on Aug 24, 2015 14:11:56 GMT -6
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,011
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Post by ericn on Aug 24, 2015 14:39:53 GMT -6
Well that sucks! Unless B&H is DCing it till they can match Sweetwaters price!
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 24, 2015 16:52:02 GMT -6
Probably discontinuing it so they don't have to match sweet waters price.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 24, 2015 18:53:05 GMT -6
Did anyone else notice Sweetwater now has a Labor Day sale: 2 DBX 560A for $300??!!
Anway I just postponed a separate purchase and ordered two more of these for now. I'm sure I can always sell one for more than I paid if I don't need 3.
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Post by epalex on Sept 4, 2015 15:34:18 GMT -6
SMT is OK for simple task's that don't involve the direct signal path, but that's about where they end. SMT allows machines to "stuff" the boards, and then at one time the pre tinned/fluxed board and components are baked on. A lot of higher end companies will do this, but will leave vital components to be done by hand, even the DBX, you can see some film box caps that have been hand soldered and stuffed, probably when the trimmers were installed. I'm ok with SMT's as long as it's for things like removing oscillation on opamps and some decoupling, but that's really as far as I'd design something with it. It can save a ton of time and cost though, and it can also provide a designer with a fully built and ready to go. A lot of the PCB companies offer this, so it can come in very handy. I think Svart did this for his converter. Hi Jerome, I am by no means the expert, by I do have to respectfully take exception with some of your statements. There are a lot of misconceptions and myths regarding SMT for audio. I believed many of them for a long time myself until I actually make a concerted effort to incorporate SMT into my designs. As someone that designs and manufacturers pro audio gear, I've actually found there are more pros than cons to using SMT. Here's some of the things I've learned: - It's a misconception that one needs specialized gear to solder or de-solder SMT parts. I use my normal soldering iron, solder wick, and flux...the same tools I use for through hole. It does require new techniques, however. I watched a bunch of videos on YouTube demonstrating these techniques (EEVBlog has some great ones. I now solder SMT parts by hand for my prototypes. With practice I'm almost as fast as doing through hole. I actually find it easier to desoldering SMT parts than through hole. - Because of the small size of SMT you can achieve performance closer to ideal with your layouts due to less parasitics. This means circuits behave the way you expect them. This is a good thing. - In general, thin film SMT resistors are equivalent in noise performance to metal film through hole counterparts, but with tighter tolerance (0.5% vs. 1%). Thick film SMT are no bueno for the audio path, however. Dave Hill wrote an excellent white paper about this a few years ago. I use Susumu and Panasonic thin film resistors in my designs exclusively. - Many TH electrolytic parts have equivalent SMT versions with identical specs. This is definitely the case with many of the Panasonic and Nichicon caps I like to use. - For electrolytic and film caps in the audio path I still prefer to use through hole parts. I have my favorite electrolytics which are not available or more expensive in SMT (I'm using TH to actually save cost and not the other way around). I think audio grade film caps is an area where the SMT offerings still have some catching up to do, but I'm confident we will get there in a few years. - PCB assembly is definitely cheaper when most of the board is SMT, and run quantities are high. This is precisely why companies why Rupert Neve manufacture their gear with contract manufacturers that work almost exclusively in SMT. All the RND stuff I've seen pics of is chock full of SMT. And it's rumored that their gear doesn't sound too bad. - Companies that insist on manufacturing exclusively with through hole will eventually find their part choices are dwindling. Even Jim Williams will tell you that all the newest and best sounding op amps are only available in SMT packages. There's no stopping progress. SMT is not something to fear. To create good sounding audio circuits with these parts one merely needs to educate oneself and learn new building techniques. Brad Thanks for all the useful info here, this particular debate always seems to confound me. However, I was wondering if you could address what you think the useful mods might be here, if any. Haven't seen a schematic yet so I'm not sure how to figure out signal path and also confused about how to discern between thick and thin film SMTs. Is it possible to recognize these based on physical attributes alone? I somewhat foolishly cracked my 560a open expecting some obvious low grade TH swaps for THAT2180 and wimas per the 160 mods but wound up scratching my head, so any further info from you or anyone else here on the matter would be greatly appreciated. I dooo love a good mod but I'm pretty unfamiliar with SMT territory, especially when it comes to ICs. The dbx v2b chip? THAT4305? Any concensus on these?
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 4, 2015 15:51:17 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 4, 2015 16:15:27 GMT -6
I think Jim Williams mentioned a mod a while back, not sure though..
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Post by epalex on Sept 9, 2015 7:12:57 GMT -6
Thanks Johnkenn! Jim did recommend a mod to the original rack mount 160a, but considering that this unit is all SMT and possibly contains upgrades to the rack mount version, I'm wondering if the same mods still apply, if perhaps more are recommended because of SMT or thick vs thin film components as brad mentioned. Just trying to get more info as I've never worked with SMT before and I haven't been able to track down a schematic for the unit either. Also does anyone know if there a way to read SMT caps and resistors that I don't know about? Thanks guys, -e
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Post by forgotteng on Sept 19, 2015 19:45:26 GMT -6
A couple thoughts, I have a 900 series rack with 2 903's and 2 905's (EQ) both were modded by Revive Audio. He did a great job and definitely "opened" them up for me.
I almost pulled the trigger on a pair of these last week but ended up going with 2 VLA500's since i already had a pair of 903's. I'm wondering if I made the right choice or if I should get 1 of each. Of course I like to buy gear in 2's if I can. Choices , choices.
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Post by EmRR on Sept 20, 2015 10:13:51 GMT -6
It could be your job to buy some and compare for us. Or not....
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Post by jeromemason on Sept 20, 2015 13:25:14 GMT -6
I modded my 560's.... crazy right...said I loved them like they were etc. etc. But, Randge rings me up and gets me all intrigued by a mod done by a company on eBay, so, I do a little digging and research and found some Burr Brown's that I wanted to try. Some didn't work and I don't recommend changing anything except the input and output op amps. The 4 channel IC's, don't bother, you're wasting your time and money there. But, I will say that I love my pair modded, very very smooth and open, plus, because I didn't screw around with the VCA or anything else the compression is still very much the DBX160 flavor, just not grainy and the headroom is far greater as well. I can peg the output meter and there's not a hint of distortion. Same on the input, hammering it sounds very nice. I went through probably 4 or 5 different opamps before I found the one I like the best. Just make sure if you're going to attempt this to have hot air and the right tools to do SMD work... it's very tight in there and I'm not certain how strong these PCB's are and how much they'll take. I worked very fast when I did mine.
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Post by forgotteng on Sept 20, 2015 16:28:03 GMT -6
It could be your job to buy some and compare for us. Or not.... I'm terrible at those comparison gigs. I'm the kind of engineer that likes to turn some knobs until it sounds cool and feels right. As soon as I put something together guys would be tearing it apart because I did not laser align the ratio knob or something crazy. But I love reading other guys experiments. Now if you want to come visit me and check it out in real time, I'm all about it.
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Post by EmRR on Sept 20, 2015 16:45:37 GMT -6
Oh, a simple "they sound the same / they sound different / I like this one the best / they are each useful for different things" would be fine. Everyone should read anything online with a truckload of salt anyway.
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Post by forgotteng on Sept 20, 2015 16:49:14 GMT -6
Oh, a simple "they sound the same / they sound different / I like this one the best / they are each useful for different things" would be fine. Everyone should read anything online with a truckload of salt anyway. That I might be able to pull off.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 20, 2015 17:34:59 GMT -6
I just want two Sta-Levels.
I can dream, can't I?
I never really liked the DBX compressor/limiters when I had my home studio anyway. I used them every day, sparingly, but always wanted something less obvious.
What are you guys using them on?
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Post by forgotteng on Sept 20, 2015 18:20:22 GMT -6
I just want two Sta-Levels. I can dream, can't I? I never really liked the DBX compressor/limiters when I had my home studio anyway. I used them every day, sparingly, but always wanted something less obvious. What are you guys using them on? I hear you. Sta-levels are on my dream list. I use my DBX 903's on drums and bass but I have used them on vocals too. Up until a couple of weeks ago I was mixing on a Soundtracs MX32 console with a modified Braurerize approach where I had a compressor on each Buss that i could assign whatever I wanted to. So I would have a JDK R-22 on 1-2 A Daking FETIII on 3-4 a DBX 903's on 5-6 and an Overstayer stereo VCA on 7-8 each of these I would use for a different character and level of aggressiveness. Usually I would have a VinTech CA609 on the 2 buss and could switch out those buss comps with an FMR RNC or RNLA or Aphex Dominator or ART VLA II. I've since got rid of the desk so now it's more of a routing patching convenience question. Sorry for the long explanation but often I use the DBX's for tracking toms and vocals sometimes snare. I like them and they are functional I'm sure with more experience and use I'll develop stronger opinions and preferences.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,011
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Post by ericn on Sept 20, 2015 18:35:46 GMT -6
Theres always the Drip DIY like the one I've almost finished ! Plus you get to help Dandelou with his GR EQ fund !
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Post by wiz on Sept 20, 2015 18:55:08 GMT -6
I have two STAs
(Drip)
8P
Wiz
DBX 160 snare and bass... snare, all the live long day
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Post by Guitar on Sept 27, 2015 11:55:37 GMT -6
SMD rework scares the shit out of me, that's very brave. I find that the 560A can be very transparent in soft-knee mode even with pretty heavy compression. I like color any way most of the time. I've also come to really like VCA boxes even though tube and FET dynamics are pretty far up on my wish list. They're not just cheap, they can also sound really good.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Sept 28, 2015 8:58:29 GMT -6
I like the fact that they're grainy. Pairs up with clean pres just right sometimes. I've used them on everything. I'm not hearing anything I'd like to change really.
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Post by jeromemason on Sept 28, 2015 14:35:55 GMT -6
I like the fact that they're grainy. Pairs up with clean pres just right sometimes. I've used them on everything. I'm not hearing anything I'd like to change really. You'd have to hear these I have.... Kinda between, I def was against till I swapped the in/out opamps... Same vibe but more headroom and warmer. Something to keep in the bag for sure.
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 28, 2015 15:01:46 GMT -6
I like the fact that they're grainy. Pairs up with clean pres just right sometimes. I've used them on everything. I'm not hearing anything I'd like to change really. You'd have to hear these I have.... Kinda between, I def was against till I swapped the in/out opamps... Same vibe but more headroom and warmer. Something to keep in the bag for sure. J, what OA's did you use?
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Post by jeromemason on Sept 29, 2015 13:23:50 GMT -6
OPA1642s. A lot of trials with different opamps, this one I liked for the DBX the most.
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