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Post by mobeach on Oct 23, 2014 18:58:04 GMT -6
What would be a good "older" console for someone that can't afford a Neve, SSL, API, or anything in that category? Something solid that probably never got much recognition?
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Post by dreyes111 on Oct 23, 2014 19:13:09 GMT -6
I have a friend with about 15 Grammies and he has a Mackie console in his studio that I've seen on ebay for 500 bucks....
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 23, 2014 20:04:47 GMT -6
The Soundcraft Ghost is one a lot of people buy and get modded and say they are killer. Not breaking the bank, modding is the best way to go IMO.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Oct 23, 2014 20:08:07 GMT -6
Soundcraft delta / Venue! Here is the thing though it all comes down to condition.
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Post by mobeach on Oct 24, 2014 4:47:51 GMT -6
I have a Soundcraft 324 Live but it's digital of course.. in order to use it for studio I need to use Insert-Direct out adapters that plug into the channel inserts, because that model doesn't have direct outs. But ultimately I want an old analog console.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 24, 2014 7:34:18 GMT -6
Spend some time learning about different consoles, lots of info all over the net, watch Craigslist and do a local EBay search. Bargains will show up, but you have to know what you want and be ready to spend some time mameing sure it is what it is build as. The keys to any used console and long term costs are 1. Condition 2 Location 3 Time
Your always going to find a seller who thinks because they paid $13,000 in the early 90s their board is worth thousands ( I have the original invoice for my $750 status) You can where a seller down as they figure out that their old centerpiece is now eating space.
Documentation is worth it's weight in gold, knowing how to connect. A board is priceless !
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 24, 2014 9:00:45 GMT -6
also do yourself a favor and go modular, even if a console looks perfect on the outside, once it hits the 20 year mark, the electrolytic caps are degrading and due for replacement, the easier it is to work on, the cheaper it is to get things proper, thats my 2 cents.
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Post by svart on Oct 24, 2014 9:11:54 GMT -6
Alesis X2. They typically need some TLC but once done it's a good console with features not found in anything else in the range.
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Post by jimwilliams on Oct 24, 2014 9:20:43 GMT -6
The one you can still get parts for. Otherwise, buy two, one as a spare. All the X2 parts were tossed out by Alesis when they moved from LA.
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Post by mobeach on Oct 24, 2014 9:25:34 GMT -6
Your always going to find a seller who thinks because they paid $13,000 in the early 90s their board is worth thousands ( I have the original invoice for my $750 status) I hear ya, my 324 originally went for $4,800 but I got it as a factory close out because they that bad power supplies, so I paid $999 for it NIB, the warranty covered a new power supply which is $800. All that being said I'll sell it for $700 or trade it. It's never been gigged.
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Post by svart on Oct 24, 2014 9:39:17 GMT -6
The one you can still get parts for. Otherwise, buy two, one as a spare. All the X2 parts were tossed out by Alesis when they moved from LA. Nah, people still part them out pretty heavily. Usually you can cruise ebay and get a console for 500$ and spare channels for around 15-30$ each from time to time. The power supply and the master channels are the hardest parts to find. Biggest issue with them is the damn power connectors inside the unit. Alesis saw fit to use quick connects for the power and those connectors are always burning up. Once you replace those or just solder the wires to the boards, they act a lot better.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 24, 2014 10:15:33 GMT -6
Alesis X2. They typically need some TLC but once done it's a good console with features not found in anything else in the range. i used one of these once long ago, and i liked it, i owned a TAC scorpion at the time, the pretty cool sounding eq on that was the only thing that made me stick with it, otherwise...it was a maintenance pita.. it seemed alesis was trying to show everyone up at the time, I can appreciate that from a co, something happened that threw their plan to the dogs though, i cant remember what it was..? Svart?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 24, 2014 10:47:33 GMT -6
How about a Yamaha PM1000? A lot of cats seem to like those and they go for low bucks.
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Post by svart on Oct 24, 2014 11:33:34 GMT -6
Alesis X2. They typically need some TLC but once done it's a good console with features not found in anything else in the range. i used one of these once long ago, and i liked it, i owned a TAC scorpion at the time, the pretty cool sounding eq on that was the only thing that made me stick with it, otherwise...it was a maintenance pita.. it seemed alesis was trying to show everyone up at the time, I can appreciate that from a co, something happened that threw their plan to the dogs though, i cant remember what it was..? Svart? Not really sure but I'm pretty sure it was ITB recording and production problems that sunk the X2 console. Alesis was in already in financial trouble at the time of the X2 though. They put some serious cash into the design effort, but they also designed it around ADAT usage, so as more people went ITB, they were still selling OTB products. The X2 never really fit in at the time because you either had really big studios buying large consoles, or you had small studios going ITB. The X2 was in the 10's of thousands of dollars new, so it certainly wasn't going to get picked up by smaller studios. If they made one around the time that people started going back out to outboard gear and/or analog summing then they probably would have made a healthy profit, like the AWS900 and it's brethren have. The X2 EQ is based on the Steve Dove CAPS design. Fred Forssell has mentioned this before in some of his design papers as being one of the best. The X2 was a really good concept, but it was plagued by design errors. Some, if not most of these were fixed in later revisions but I heard from an ex-Alesis employee that it cost them a lot of money to fix the units in the field that had failures, so I'm sure it had a lot to do with killing the product.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 24, 2014 11:45:12 GMT -6
i used one of these once long ago, and i liked it, i owned a TAC scorpion at the time, the pretty cool sounding eq on that was the only thing that made me stick with it, otherwise...it was a maintenance pita.. it seemed alesis was trying to show everyone up at the time, I can appreciate that from a co, something happened that threw their plan to the dogs though, i cant remember what it was..? Svart? Not really sure but I'm pretty sure it was ITB recording and production problems that sunk the X2 console. Alesis was in already in financial trouble at the time of the X2 though. They put some serious cash into the design effort, but they also designed it around ADAT usage, so as more people went ITB, they were still selling OTB products. The X2 never really fit in at the time because you either had really big studios buying large consoles, or you had small studios going ITB. The X2 was in the 10's of thousands of dollars new, so it certainly wasn't going to get picked up by smaller studios. If they made one around the time that people started going back out to outboard gear and/or analog summing then they probably would have made a healthy profit, like the AWS900 and it's brethren have. The X2 EQ is based on the Steve Dove CAPS design. Fred Forssell has mentioned this before in some of his design papers as being one of the best. The X2 was a really good concept, but it was plagued by design errors. Some, if not most of these were fixed in later revisions but I heard from an ex-Alesis employee that it cost them a lot of money to fix the units in the field that had failures, so I'm sure it had a lot to do with killing the product. this is what i remember...
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 24, 2014 11:56:01 GMT -6
cowboycoalminer should see this and comment, I believe he has a modded SoundCraft.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Oct 24, 2014 12:06:29 GMT -6
Not really sure but I'm pretty sure it was ITB recording and production problems that sunk the X2 console. Alesis was in already in financial trouble at the time of the X2 though. They put some serious cash into the design effort, but they also designed it around ADAT usage, so as more people went ITB, they were still selling OTB products. The X2 never really fit in at the time because you either had really big studios buying large consoles, or you had small studios going ITB. The X2 was in the 10's of thousands of dollars new, so it certainly wasn't going to get picked up by smaller studios. If they made one around the time that people started going back out to outboard gear and/or analog summing then they probably would have made a healthy profit, like the AWS900 and it's brethren have. The X2 EQ is based on the Steve Dove CAPS design. Fred Forssell has mentioned this before in some of his design papers as being one of the best. The X2 was a really good concept, but it was plagued by design errors. Some, if not most of these were fixed in later revisions but I heard from an ex-Alesis employee that it cost them a lot of money to fix the units in the field that had failures, so I'm sure it had a lot to do with killing the product. this is what i remember... X2 was dead and gone by the time ITB took hold The death went like this 1 Mackie 8 bus, cheap UPS shipable, less problems expandable did I mention Cheap? 2 Behringer Mackie 8 buss clone Even cheaper 3 Yamaha o2r Small foot print digital, automation and recall ! Also Alesis was viewed by the dealers who knew how to sell and support it as lowend, they already all had a ton of consoles in that price range.
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 24, 2014 12:11:00 GMT -6
I had a low serial Mackie 32-8 and I kick myself for selling the damn thing. That's back when they made them over on the west coast and there was something for sure different sounding than the newer ones.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 24, 2014 12:57:13 GMT -6
How about a Yamaha PM1000? A lot of cats seem to like those and they go for low bucks. The mythical PM1k, sure it has transformers and a very specific DOA, sure a certain Former broker/ then dealer had one and poetically gushed about the pres. It was a live board, anybody who used them understood they were the cheap big board of the time, but they sucked then, they suck now , even after layers of beer and gunk. Yes the pres hav a sound , so did my roommates Peavy 701, I would rather not deal with either . Here's the thing an old Yamaha hand said to me a number of years ago " that guy who loves his PM1000, wouldn't have touched one when they were current , when did the sucker age like wine?"
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Post by scumbum on Oct 24, 2014 13:46:55 GMT -6
I have a friend with about 15 Grammies and he has a Mackie console in his studio that I've seen on ebay for 500 bucks.... Is it the SR24.4 ? This is what I have and it sounds great to me .
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 24, 2014 14:17:23 GMT -6
What jcoutou said, "How about a Yamaha PM1000? A lot of cats seem to like those and they go for low bucks."
or the Soundcraft Ghost.
Cowboycoalminer uses a modded Ghost and gets great results, and from what I've read, The Yamaha was made to compete with the big boys, so it's a great value.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 24, 2014 14:42:57 GMT -6
soundcraft delta 200
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Post by mobeach on Oct 24, 2014 15:38:41 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 24, 2014 15:54:56 GMT -6
I know it's not modular, and thats enough to not buy it IMO, if you buy a 16 channel modular board, you can have 15 channels go down and still use it. Modular configs allow easy repair on channel strip at a time while you still use it, the board you linked requires you to send the entire thing off for repair, or disconnect everything to flip it and get to a problem yourself, JUST SAY NO.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 24, 2014 16:43:56 GMT -6
Well some would say this is modular, each ch is on its own PCB you just have to remove all the knobs and retaining nuts to remove the module. Spirts are the result of Harmon buying Speck, not bad but I prefer the Allen and Heath in that price range, I mixed on a Live Spirit for a year.
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