AD conversion come to Jesus talk

Yeah maybe so…but I just wonder if it’s one of those things you don’t hear until it’s stacked.

What’s your preamp? Since you’re saying Apollo vs Burl I’m guessing you don’t plug into the Apollo pre and use a pre before the Burl.

Why not split the signal from the pre output to both Apollo and Burl, either using a splitter cable or a patchbay if you have either. [There is no impedance issue since it’s line level after the pre. It will be an exact split; you can send to two Apollo channels to test that they will null out.]

This way the take/performance/chain is identical except for A/D. Don’t forget to volume match though.

I just did this in fact. I realized I have way too many nice things and listed both my Carbon and my Lynx - but I remember when I got the Lynx I split a pair of channels like this to both of them and recorded a couple of layers of elec, acoustic and vocal. And then I listened to each set blind. The differences were exactly as you’d expect judging from price point and reputation of the highly usable Carbon vs the formidable Lynx.

I am only tracking vocals and acoustics and DI nowadays. I don’t feel the Apollo converters are holding me back. I previously used Motu 16a , RME UCX, Apogee Duet, RME 9632
I got decent results with all of them. The Apollo has the best feature set of all of them for me..but really it’s because of Luna. The workflow and sound of its summing and tape is the right aesthetic for me. Not having to use the Motu or RME mixer is a huuuuuuige bonus.

I still use a 1073 BAE DMP and a Siemens V72 over Apollo preamps though(not always though as I really like the sound of the Apollo preamp for some things) I notice the difference with the preamps (and this might seem a little weird)when tracking my own vocals and acoustics. There is a feeling of more air space and life in what I am monitoring through cans whilst performing. Even though ABing real preamps against their Unison counterparts doesn’t reveal a huge difference when listening back on studio monitors when mixing…..I certainly feel it when tracking. So I decided to just continue doing it that way.

Any choices I make during mixing or performance anomalies far outweigh the impact on the end result than the difference between what converter I might have used.

Not to say I wouldn’t love the Burls…never used them.

Cheers

Wiz

I’ve never used the newer range Apollos, but I had a gen 1 and gen 2. Only used outboard pres. I wouldn’t say anything I tracked was bad, but when I upgraded to the Lynx, I had one of those “oh” moments. I know a lot of people can’t hear, or don’t care about such things, but I do. I don’t know how to describe what I hear on Apollos, but I bet if you did a split and posted it here I could tell the difference between the Burl and Apollo.

My Apollo is my interface and I have the Burl set up spdif in. So it’s a one or the other thing.

I had the Burl for a week around six years ago. It sounded better than the Apollo I had at the time. I don't remember if it was gen I or II. The Burl felt pro, much like a real Neve sounds pro.

I still wasn't completely satisfied with the Apollo conversion when I had the 2nd. gen. I have the X6 gen III now. It was better, but then I had the full monty Black Lion Audio mod done. It's now transparent. I don't notice the sound or "tone" of the Apollo anymore. It's just what the track actually sounds like. I don't even think about upgrading anymore. Perhaps if I had a studio of my own I might consider other options, but for my uses now, my Apollo is a serious workhorse. I'm mixing and co-producing a friends next album, and my mixes take much less time to get done since the BLA mod. It made me wonder if it was these other aspects all along that bugged me and not the converters themselves.

This is what they do:

Digital
– New internal, ultra-low-jitter, XB word clock with proprietary implementation
– The clock modification alone makes a big difference to the A/D and D/A conversion stages. It opens up the soundstage and removes grit!
Premium Mod (Premium Analog I/O)
Analog
– New, high performance op-amps on all analog inputs and outputs
– New, high-grade signal path capacitors on analog inputs (not available on X16)
– New, high-grade decoupling capacitors on mic preamps, Hi-Z inputs, and headphone amplifiers (not available on X16)
– New, high-grade decoupling capacitors on line outputs (X16 only)
– New, high-grade decoupling capacitors used for global power filtration
– Improving the performance of the analog stage circuits makes a drastic difference for tracking, mixing, and mastering (expect amazing micro-dynamics and space)!
Digital
– Proprietary decoupling on all A/D and D/A converters using methods found in our Signature, FM, and XB modifications
– Our approach to converter decoupling reduces noise generated during the conversion process, leaving you with crisp, clear audio!

My experience is similar to Martin and Wiz in different ways.

Despite having better conversion in the house, I found the Apollo work flow easy and intuitive.

But I did not like the sound of the conversion. At all. I had the BLA mod done. That did the trick.
I subsequently had a total of three different Apollos modded. The end result was consistent, and excellent.

It is hard to part with the centerpiece of a studio for a few weeks,
but it was a significant enough improvement that I sold my other AD's (2192) 
and my other DA (Antelope and Benchmark DAC-1).

But I also am completely on board with the vibe of a performance.
I have had set ups that were so uninspiring I just stopped writing.

These kind of decisions have almost nothing to do with money (unless money is tight).

MJH

I am also very interested in these comparisons. I’ve had Lavry/Apollo Gen 2/Apogee/Avid Carbon/Dangerous Converts AD/DA/HD24

Maybe Black Lion is the way to go, sounds like there is enough feedback to give it a shot.

Workflow and Sound really matters to me the most. I’m happy with my current setup, but it’s too much. Looking to downsize and try out some different comps and maybe a new interface or workflow. I tried to go really cheap to Presonus and that didn’t work out too well. Studio One and the fader/interface had really good integration, but I couldn’t use the sound of the interface. The headphones amps and sound of the interface just didn’t do it for me.

So I’m trying to wrap my head around doing this with the patchbay. If I use a half normaled config, I could route the mic into the upper back, then one signal from the upper front to Pre1 and one from lower back to Pre2, right?

What a great idea. Love this test!

Which I now own. :-) 

(Just braggin' 'bout my JK hand-me-downs)