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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 15, 2022 2:11:30 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 7:03:00 GMT -6
So you can buy 5 more speakers and charge more an additional atmos mix
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Post by javamad on Mar 15, 2022 7:15:05 GMT -6
Having trouble getting broke musicians to pay existing rates … I don’t see them covering a 7.4.1 set up :-)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 7:50:49 GMT -6
I think the important part of this is the addition of monitoring with the Apple spatial encoder. That (of course) requires the Apple earbuds, but it's still a nice and necessary step forwards. Since Apple's spatial audio is currently only available using Earpods and the speakers on the M1 Macbook, you might make the argument that the speakers in the mix room aren't quite necessary. I still greatly prefer speakers, but it's a little hard to take them along if I'm mowing the lawn or running the snowblower. There's absolutely no way to monitor Apple's immersive stuff on speakers using the Dolby renderer (something the adults at Apple and Dolby need to resolve).
In short this means that you'll be monitoring your immersive mixes exactly the way the listeners will hear. No speakers--at all--are required. You can quibble with it (I certainly do), but it appears to be the way most people hear music. The cost of entry for the mixer is pretty low.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 15, 2022 8:36:40 GMT -6
Thx Michael, I have no earbuds, but that explains the why ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 8:50:44 GMT -6
I think the important part of this is the addition of monitoring with the Apple spatial encoder. That (of course) requires the Apple earbuds, but it's still a nice and necessary step forwards. Since Apple's spatial audio is currently only available using Earpods and the speakers on the M1 Macbook, you might make the argument that the speakers in the mix room aren't quite necessary. I still greatly prefer speakers, but it's a little hard to take them along if I'm mowing the lawn or running the snowblower. There's absolutely no way to monitor Apple's immersive stuff on speakers using the Dolby renderer (something the adults at Apple and Dolby need to resolve). In short this means that you'll be monitoring your immersive mixes exactly the way the listeners will hear. No speakers--at all--are required. You can quibble with it (I certainly do), but it appears to be the way most people hear music. The cost of entry for the mixer is pretty low. So I can charge an extra hour or two and do a mixdown on earpods now? That's amazing. I will keep that in mind.
How is it vs the Slate phones or Goodhertz Can Opener?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 9:12:53 GMT -6
So I can charge an extra hour or two and do a mixdown on earpods now? That's amazing. I will keep that in mind.
How is it vs the Slate phones or Goodhertz Can Opener?
Quality of the buds? I don't have any idea. But it doesn't matter. The immersive stuff is only enabled on the Apple gear. If I'm stuck on cans, I'd rather use my Beyer 1990s. But they're not supported either. |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 15, 2022 9:56:57 GMT -6
We've seen this since the 70s. Music listeners, by and large, don't care about surround of any sort. You can expand it (5.1, DTX), and rebrand it (Immersive) and it doesn't matter. Music consumers don't want it. They aren't demanding it, they don't give a shit. Music (as some believe) is more cohesive when it all comes from 'in front' of the listener.
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 15, 2022 10:05:24 GMT -6
I get excited if the end user has stereo speakers!!
My wife listens to all her favourite records (on Spotify) via her Amazon Alexa Studio (essentially a mono point)
My kids have their computer speakers about 6cm apart or listen to the speakers in their iPhone (essentially a mono point)
I sit in my studio making tiny adjustments to panning as I mix .... and I really do wonder "why should I care"
Dolby Atmos - how many speakers!
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Post by EmRR on Mar 15, 2022 10:13:39 GMT -6
It was car audio that 'saved' surround, because the manufacturers went with systems that could play it at one point. Easily the largest segment. Do they today?. Now the kids don't want cars. I don't want earbuds. Stalemate.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Mar 15, 2022 11:04:52 GMT -6
Has anyone on this forum ever had a client request Atmos? I haven't, and I can't imagine investing the time and money into it when there's absolutely zero demand for it from any of my current clients. I'm a bit mystified by the number of AEs that seem to be rushing to get in on Atmos. Who's gonna pay them to do it? I'll keep an open mind if it actually becomes a big thing, but if history is a guide it will just be a niche.
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Post by drumsound on Mar 15, 2022 11:13:41 GMT -6
Has anyone on this forum ever had a client request Atmos? I haven't, and I can't imagine investing the time and money into it when there's absolutely zero demand for it from any of my current clients. I'm a bit mystified by the number of AEs that seem to be rushing to get in on Atmos. Who's gonna pay them to do it? I'll keep an open mind if it actually becomes a big thing, but if history is a guide it will just be a niche. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 11:27:52 GMT -6
Has anyone on this forum ever had a client request Atmos? I haven't, and I can't imagine investing the time and money into it when there's absolutely zero demand for it from any of my current clients. I'm a bit mystified by the number of AEs that seem to be rushing to get in on Atmos. Who's gonna pay them to do it? I'll keep an open mind if it actually becomes a big thing, but if history is a guide it will just be a niche. Do keep in mind that this forum has a fairly limited focus and doesn't cover everything that goes on in the world of audio. A large number of broadcast TV shows have been 5.1 for quite some time--since digital broadcast became the standard several years back. Of course Atmos is an increasing request for TV streaming--Apple, Netflix, Disney, Amazon, etc. Music-only services are seeing a greater and greater amount of immersive (Amazon, Apple and others). A whole lot of back-catalog is being remixed (any opportunity to sell you something you've already bought several times over). And a large amount of new music is now being mixed in immersive forms of one type or another. The price of entry has lowered (Dolby doesn't require a specific room spec for music as they do for post). Atmos comes along with Logic and the full Dolby renderer is only a couple hundred bucks. Once you get the hang of mixing in immersive it's not really that hard. Music opens up and it's so much easier to hear all the parts in a piece. A tastefully-done mix is an absolute pleasure to hear. It's moving forward quickly and in significant ways. The clientele of many folks on this forum may enjoy a more conservative approach (and that's perfectly fine of course). But there's significant motion in the direction of immmersive and it's supported on the client side from buds to laptops to soundbars (some work quite well) to full doctor/lawyer speaker setups. I don't think you dismiss it before exploring that world. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 12:23:41 GMT -6
Has anyone on this forum ever had a client request Atmos? I haven't, and I can't imagine investing the time and money into it when there's absolutely zero demand for it from any of my current clients. I'm a bit mystified by the number of AEs that seem to be rushing to get in on Atmos. Who's gonna pay them to do it? I'll keep an open mind if it actually becomes a big thing, but if history is a guide it will just be a niche. Do keep in mind that this forum has a fairly limited focus and doesn't cover everything that goes on in the world of audio. A large number of broadcast TV shows have been 5.1 for quite some time--since digital broadcast became the standard several years back. Of course Atmos is an increasing request for TV streaming--Apple, Netflix, Disney, Amazon, etc. Music-only services are seeing a greater and greater amount of immersive (Amazon, Apple and others). A whole lot of back-catalog is being remixed (any opportunity to sell you something you've already bought several times over). And a large amount of new music is now being mixed in immersive forms of one type or another. The price of entry has lowered (Dolby doesn't require a specific room spec for music as they do for post). Atmos comes along with Logic and the full Dolby renderer is only a couple hundred bucks. Once you get the hang of mixing in immersive it's not really that hard. Music opens up and it's so much easier to hear all the parts in a piece. A tastefully-done mix is an absolute pleasure to hear. It's moving forward quickly and in significant ways. The clientele of many folks on this forum may enjoy a more conservative approach (and that's perfectly fine of course). But there's significant motion in the direction of immmersive and it's supported on the client side from buds to laptops to soundbars (some work quite well) to full doctor/lawyer speaker setups. I don't think you dismiss it before exploring that world. People said the same thing about Dolby 5.1 remixes of music and all that led to were DVDs that sat on the shelves because only the most die hard fans would touch them. Of course everyone who did them got paid a pretty penny. Some of that stuff is still sitting 15 years later in local record stores. Same with HDCD. All it lead to was some bad sounding Van Halen and King Crimson CD pressings for the most part and Pacific Microsonics getting royalties from big box store hifi companies and then making out like bandits when Microsoft bought them.
Super Audio CD bombed. DXD is bombing as we speak. High-rez downloads are already just a novelty.
and I just bought 60 bucks of krautrock reissues on normal CD. The pressings of some stuff still sells.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Mar 15, 2022 13:21:10 GMT -6
Has anyone on this forum ever had a client request Atmos? I haven't, and I can't imagine investing the time and money into it when there's absolutely zero demand for it from any of my current clients. I'm a bit mystified by the number of AEs that seem to be rushing to get in on Atmos. Who's gonna pay them to do it? I'll keep an open mind if it actually becomes a big thing, but if history is a guide it will just be a niche. Do keep in mind that this forum has a fairly limited focus and doesn't cover everything that goes on in the world of audio. A large number of broadcast TV shows have been 5.1 for quite some time--since digital broadcast became the standard several years back. Of course Atmos is an increasing request for TV streaming--Apple, Netflix, Disney, Amazon, etc. Music-only services are seeing a greater and greater amount of immersive (Amazon, Apple and others). A whole lot of back-catalog is being remixed (any opportunity to sell you something you've already bought several times over). And a large amount of new music is now being mixed in immersive forms of one type or another. The price of entry has lowered (Dolby doesn't require a specific room spec for music as they do for post). Atmos comes along with Logic and the full Dolby renderer is only a couple hundred bucks. Once you get the hang of mixing in immersive it's not really that hard. Music opens up and it's so much easier to hear all the parts in a piece. A tastefully-done mix is an absolute pleasure to hear. It's moving forward quickly and in significant ways. The clientele of many folks on this forum may enjoy a more conservative approach (and that's perfectly fine of course). But there's significant motion in the direction of immmersive and it's supported on the client side from buds to laptops to soundbars (some work quite well) to full doctor/lawyer speaker setups. I don't think you dismiss it before exploring that world. Look, I think Atmos is amazingly cool. I see it doing great things in the film industry and such. Maybe gaming. But for music I think it'll be a sideshow for all but the big budget artists/labels. The VAST majority of music is not that. But I'm willing to be proven wrong. And I doubt I will... It may be cheap to buy the renderer but don't you need 7 speakers or something? |
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Post by Guitar on Mar 15, 2022 13:24:35 GMT -6
I think it might be a tie in with that Facebook/Meta bullshit that's being developed right now. More virtual bullshit for your non-life.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2022 13:56:01 GMT -6
Do keep in mind that this forum has a fairly limited focus and doesn't cover everything that goes on in the world of audio. A large number of broadcast TV shows have been 5.1 for quite some time--since digital broadcast became the standard several years back. Of course Atmos is an increasing request for TV streaming--Apple, Netflix, Disney, Amazon, etc. Music-only services are seeing a greater and greater amount of immersive (Amazon, Apple and others). A whole lot of back-catalog is being remixed (any opportunity to sell you something you've already bought several times over). And a large amount of new music is now being mixed in immersive forms of one type or another. The price of entry has lowered (Dolby doesn't require a specific room spec for music as they do for post). Atmos comes along with Logic and the full Dolby renderer is only a couple hundred bucks. Once you get the hang of mixing in immersive it's not really that hard. Music opens up and it's so much easier to hear all the parts in a piece. A tastefully-done mix is an absolute pleasure to hear. It's moving forward quickly and in significant ways. The clientele of many folks on this forum may enjoy a more conservative approach (and that's perfectly fine of course). But there's significant motion in the direction of immmersive and it's supported on the client side from buds to laptops to soundbars (some work quite well) to full doctor/lawyer speaker setups. I don't think you dismiss it before exploring that world. People said the same thing about Dolby 5.1 remixes of music and all that led to were DVDs that sat on the shelves because only the most die hard fans would touch them. Of course everyone who did them got paid a pretty penny. Some of that stuff is still sitting 15 years later in local record stores. Same with HDCD. All it lead to was some bad sounding Van Halen and King Crimson CD pressings for the most part and Pacific Microsonics getting royalties from big box store hifi companies and then making out like bandits when Microsoft bought them.
Super Audio CD bombed. DXD is bombing as we speak. High-rez downloads are already just a novelty.
and I just bought 60 bucks of krautrock reissues on normal CD. The pressings of some stuff still sells.
So far I’m not a fan of ATMOS, I have yet to hear something I emotionally connect with, but the earbud/ headphone intergration might make this the first surround music format to take hold. The problem with Quad, DVD audio, Dolby’s multiple attempts and SACD has and will always be the fact that for music you really need at least 4 channels of identical speaker and amplification for it to work. The Expense is just to much to get the consumer to bite. In video the only real front to back panning is for transitory sources, you don’t position something between surrounds and left or right, in surround for video the rears are pretty much effects. For music you really need identical phase and frequency response of all speakers for the panning to result in a predictable result otherwise try mixing with an unmatched set of left and right, now go take that mix and play it back on any other pair of speakers and let’s see how your soundstage presets it’s self ( seriously try it, It’s how I would explain to people why most surround set ups are just not designed for music. I did play around with one of these funky Atmos sound bars and found it very strange, but that’s me. |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 15, 2022 14:08:25 GMT -6
Has anyone on this forum ever had a client request Atmos? I haven't, and I can't imagine investing the time and money into it when there's absolutely zero demand for it from any of my current clients. I'm a bit mystified by the number of AEs that seem to be rushing to get in on Atmos. Who's gonna pay them to do it? I'll keep an open mind if it actually becomes a big thing, but if history is a guide it will just be a niche. I only hear kids in recording classes at Uni mention encountering it. |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 15, 2022 14:44:56 GMT -6
Ya know, if concert tapers started releasing their multichannel bootlegs.....there are plenty of people in that community putting up rigs capable of easily generating surround mixes, if there was anything to be done with them. But....that's not Atmos.....
They're as rabid as the high end hifi people, so it's a market if anything is....but it's unofficial gray territory.....nevermind....
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Post by Guitar on Mar 15, 2022 15:19:22 GMT -6
Ya know, if concert tapers started releasing their multichannel bootlegs.....there are plenty of people in that community putting up rigs capable of easily generating surround mixes, if there was anything to be done with them. But....that's not Atmos..... They're as rabid as the high end hifi people, so it's a market if anything is....but it's unofficial gray territory.....nevermind.... I just discovered the "Dime" community, going to see if I can find some cool shows. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2022 16:47:25 GMT -6
Has anyone on this forum ever had a client request Atmos? I haven't, and I can't imagine investing the time and money into it when there's absolutely zero demand for it from any of my current clients. I'm a bit mystified by the number of AEs that seem to be rushing to get in on Atmos. Who's gonna pay them to do it? I'll keep an open mind if it actually becomes a big thing, but if history is a guide it will just be a niche. I only hear kids in recording classes at Uni mention encountering it. Of course the post guys are all in, a couple of hip- hop guys I know are interested as well as one classical guy, but Um not sure the music guys understand it ! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2022 16:49:04 GMT -6
Ya know, if concert tapers started releasing their multichannel bootlegs.....there are plenty of people in that community putting up rigs capable of easily generating surround mixes, if there was anything to be done with them. But....that's not Atmos..... They're as rabid as the high end hifi people, so it's a market if anything is....but it's unofficial gray territory.....nevermind.... Honestly I’d rather steal someone’s IEM Feed, oh wait been there done that🤪 |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 15, 2022 17:15:16 GMT -6
Ya know, if concert tapers started releasing their multichannel bootlegs.....there are plenty of people in that community putting up rigs capable of easily generating surround mixes, if there was anything to be done with them. But....that's not Atmos..... They're as rabid as the high end hifi people, so it's a market if anything is....but it's unofficial gray territory.....nevermind.... Honestly I’d rather steal someone’s IEM Feed, oh wait been there done that🤪 You steal everyones IEM feed AND sync with surround audience mics! Seriously some of these tapers have more gear than us. |
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Post by M57 on Mar 15, 2022 17:37:04 GMT -6
I get excited if the end user has stereo speakers!! My wife listens to all her favourite records (on Spotify) via her Amazon Alexa Studio (essentially a mono point) My kids have their computer speakers about 6cm apart or listen to the speakers in their iPhone (essentially a mono point) I sit in my studio making tiny adjustments to panning as I mix .... and I really do wonder "why should I care" Dolby Atmos - how many speakers! I use to go on field trips with kids just a few years ago (pre-Covid) when I was teaching middle school students. They would "share" music on the bus by listening on one earbud while letting a friend listen to the other, which of course horrified me, and I let them know it - not because they were listening to only one channel, but be because they were swapping ear-gunk! They could care less about stereo. |
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Post by Ward on Mar 16, 2022 5:53:37 GMT -6
Surround sound was cool in the day, as was 5.1 and 7.1 and any other variation of 'Quad' or attempts at beyond stereo.
But I only have 2 ears, and stereo sounds great to every one of my clients . . . so far. I'm a little bit of a Lud sometimes.
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