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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2022 13:38:54 GMT -6
I got lost in the plot, who was his father ? Darth Fader Okay, hats off to that one.. LOL.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2022 17:04:37 GMT -6
Why build a whole building to listen to Presonus monitors and use a rack of warm gear? Well it's not exactly an "Epic" setup but they've done it the right way round.. Room and acoustics first, then equipment. I don’t know. They’re not gonna hear what’s going on anyway so if it sounds good to start with its gonna get screwed up. And it’s gonna get screwed up anyway by the warm gear. Cheaper option is still: 1) a MacBook or any pc laptop that passes latency mon 2) good dynamic mics. Shures, EVs, Beyers, Audix are all good. 3) a pair of Omni condensers. Unless you go for the shure ksm 137 or 141, these may be be the most expensive thing. If the people you recording have sicko drums, buy an additional different pair. Not from China. 4) any 8 channel interface or a better two channel one with an Adat port. If it’s not made by Presonus or Uli Behringer you’ll be fine honestly in 2022 5) bunch of decent closed headphones. A headphone amp. If you don’t get the behringer one that’s already impressive because lmsot everyone with credit card debt from a rack of warm or kt gear has that behringer one 6) a pair of usable monitors. None of this cheap resonant crap. No uh Presonus or the bigger Rokits or the JBl 305 where the low mids are gone and you can never sit a vocal or crank a high shelf because they suck on their own. The NHT Supers are still the cheapest good thing. The HS8 is okay too. The smaller HS monitors are only if you want to be tempted to put a gun to your head and hate music. They’re like shittier ns10s. The kali 6 is okay but the 8 is boxy trash. The expensive krk 6 are good and the Neumann 120 are good, the focals shapes and dynaudio bm6a are fine if you like the low end to be dominant, etc. there’s a lot of good stuff above guitar center level now that’s perfectly usable if you listen to music on it to understand it for a bit 7) 60 bucks for reaper or 200 bucks for logic. Do not subscribe to anything. That’s a wallet drain 8) have a car to drive to the bands practice space where they are comfortable in somewhere not a sheet metal barn with a logo slapped on it that screams that you will make them sound like a shitty metal album with Stephen slate drums and a cgi cover. 9) the only rack thing you might need is a 30 rack of beer
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Post by chessparov on Mar 13, 2022 17:55:07 GMT -6
Not qualified to judge here but... Would you even pick ITB Plugs (usually) over the Warm rack gear? And a Slate VSX headphone vs Presonus? (Gotta throw a rookie question in ) FWIW I like my Warm 47jr. a lot. Yes, UT 47FET/Heiserman H47 FET/Bock iFET are all overall superior. But it's still a very nice sounding mic. Chris
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Post by spindrift on Mar 13, 2022 18:17:53 GMT -6
You can’t buy taste
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2022 18:20:54 GMT -6
Not qualified to judge here but... Would you even pick ITB Plugs (usually) over the Warm rack gear? And a Slate VSX headphone vs Presonus? (Gotta throw a rookie question in ) FWIW I like my Warm 47jr. a lot. Yes, UT 47FET/Heiserman H47 FET/Bock iFET are all overall superior. But it's still a very nice sounding mic. Chris Chris, the hardware pieces that can compete with the best plugs now are limited too. Most hardware is a clone of stuff from 50 years ago. for every crane song, daking, kush, little labs, drawmer, or vertigo compressor there are a thousand takes on something from 50 years ago where the filters are slightly off. i fail to see how clones are better than Presswerk, Kotelnikov, Vulf, Molot, Impressor, etc There have been lots of filter advances in the last 50 years and most of these clones can’t get the 1176 exponential splat or SSL auto or whatever down anyway. If you can’t get auto right, how are you better than the Glue at 16x oversampling?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2022 18:23:34 GMT -6
Exacto. And stuff like the Art vla or art limiter or fmr pbc6a has way more flavor than a middling clone. People think the VLA doesn’t have flavor? Hit it hot…
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Post by Guitar on Mar 13, 2022 18:34:59 GMT -6
You can't taste it either :-D
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Post by chessparov on Mar 13, 2022 21:25:40 GMT -6
Thanks Dan. Although it makes the most sense for me to stay 95-98%+ ITB, for home recording... I still like learning. Chris
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2022 21:45:26 GMT -6
Thanks Dan. Although it makes the most sense for me to stay 95-98%+ ITB, for home recording... I still like learning. Chris ITB is so good now and the best stuff is usually under 150 bucks when not on sale!
OTB, there's awesome stuff for about 1000 a channel and sometimes way cheaper like all the FMR gear, Drawmer, the ART Dual Limiter (this thing is legitimately good and does way more than the VLA), used deals on Daking and Crane Song gear. I mean usually that stuff doesn't go that cheap but sometimes you see the Spiders go for like 4000 bucks and that's dirt cheap for how many channels of cool you're getting (great converter, great pre, great mixer, and great fx) and I'm always like god damn why wasn't this 500 a channel when I had 40 to 50 benjamins to blow?
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Post by chessparov on Mar 14, 2022 0:09:56 GMT -6
If/when I use that Radiator Plugin a lot... That's kinda my Mason/Dixon line for adding more Hardware.
And my "outboard" is 80's-early OO's Low End! Chris P.S. Sorry my Type C Exciter/Nanoverb & Comp are not up for sale. May consider Audioscapes-Straight trade.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2022 1:00:25 GMT -6
A tad bit snobby aye? I've had some warm mixing equipment and it sounded nothing like the original but it wasn't bad either. I must admit I've never really seen the point in buying lots of clones that end up costing more than a light "high end setup" or the originals. If I were going to do a premium studio on a budget (treatment / rooms aside) I'd get a ULN-8, a pair of Gethain's, some Bock / Gefell and Schoep's mic's plus a couple of Shelford's for lead Vox or "key" instruments. Add a few dynamics in there for drums, don't really care all that much what they are as long as they're proven. It doesn't look anywhere near as shiny but it's damn effective.. Then I'd just use the MH strip, Serban doesn't seem to struggle with it so? I think the problem is anyone who doesn't really know pro audio will look at the amount of equipment and say wow. A small amount of really good stuff that favours ITB stuff doesn't have the same visual impact.. However if I was tracking in a studio I'd appreciate the small but quality setup much more than masses of mid level and low end stuff.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 14, 2022 2:03:11 GMT -6
At the end of the day, we would really need to hear some songs done completely in a studio to decide on its sound quality and if files were blind, we’d just have to go on sonics.
A recording should be about its musicality and ability to engage the listener and what it evokes in them emotionally.
I just did my last song with all tracking done with my SA67, Daking pre and my SA76adf, very few plug ins for mix and my WA ssl clone on my mix bus. Tracking was inspiring and very easily dialled in and mixing was straightforward, easy with the great signal at source track quality: guess I am now a fan of the few better quality pieces.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 14, 2022 10:29:16 GMT -6
If I was tracking at Warm I would just mix in the box and use those great rooms... I'm sure it would sound good. Or hey maybe a little drum EQ on the way in or something. There's an SSL there too.
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Post by Ward on Mar 14, 2022 13:29:47 GMT -6
You can't taste it either :-D However . . . Taste is something you can develop a taste for
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Post by Guitar on Mar 14, 2022 14:07:48 GMT -6
You can't taste it either :-D However . . . Taste is something you can develop a taste for "Taste" is mostly in the nose, as a matter of fact.
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Post by tkaitkai on Mar 14, 2022 14:14:28 GMT -6
I may be in the minority here, but I’ve never had an issue with the way Warm gear sounds. I think high end gear is generally better, but the Warm stuff is a damn good second choice. I’d happily take a WA47 over a litany of mid-priced condensers. It may not be a Telefunken or a Bock, but it’s a serious contender given the price.
I’d also take Warm gear over most plugins. I’ve used the stuff — it sounds good, and generally beats working entirely ITB.
I agree about the vibe of the studio, though. It does seem a little too prim and proper for my taste, but I’d probably get over it within five seconds of being there. I could make music in that place.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 14, 2022 20:21:49 GMT -6
i fail to see how clones are better than Presswerk, Kotelnikov, Vulf, Molot, Impressor, etc Hey Dan. I wonder if you've looked at the SSL Native compressors? I've been using X-Comp a little, and more recently X-Valve Comp which is slightly different. I know you talk a lot about fast attack times. I had a pokey clean guitar that needed to be loud. I limited the mix bus, but the guitar was breaking up badly, it was gross. So I added X-Valve Comp with the fastest attack time set to "Peak" mode and it smoothed it out just fine. No clicky stuff or whatever, it just worked. This is becoming a regular issue for me with "jazz guitar." Those loud clean tones need some taming to control the gross clipping that can happen when they're loud, I have to reach for compression a lot. There's a lot more overdrive in "jazz" tones than I realized, is another thing. You end up hearing it clearly. I think it's a beautiful sound. I would say that X-Valve Comp also has a sort of beautiful fat and round tone to it, kind of some mojo in this one for my ears. I'll be using it more. Just wondering if you've analyzed this one. It's "not a clone" or "emulation" so I figured you could be interested, haven't tried it on drums or cymbals yet, but I will.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2022 23:51:42 GMT -6
i fail to see how clones are better than Presswerk, Kotelnikov, Vulf, Molot, Impressor, etc Hey Dan. I wonder if you've looked at the SSL Native compressors? I've been using X-Comp a little, and more recently X-Valve Comp which is slightly different. I know you talk a lot about fast attack times. I had a pokey clean guitar that needed to be loud. I limited the mix bus, but the guitar was breaking up badly, it was gross. So I added X-Valve Comp with the fastest attack time set to "Peak" mode and it smoothed it out just fine. No clicky stuff or whatever, it just worked. This is becoming a regular issue for me with "jazz guitar." Those loud clean tones need some taming to control the gross clipping that can happen when they're loud, I have to reach for compression a lot. There's a lot more overdrive in "jazz" tones than I realized, is another thing. You end up hearing it clearly. I think it's a beautiful sound. I would say that X-Valve Comp also has a sort of beautiful fat and round tone to it, kind of some mojo in this one for my ears. I'll be using it more. Just wondering if you've analyzed this one. It's "not a clone" or "emulation" so I figured you could be interested, haven't tried it on drums or cymbals yet, but I will. No idea. There's probably some kind of saturation or distortion to it like PSP OldTimer or MJUC or Blockfish to it to just saturate stuff out if the fast attack doesn't really work. Honestly, in mixes, I've just been using Molot lately out of laziness. I know how to get it to do what I want because I used the free version for years and the saturation makes stuff fat.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 15, 2022 4:03:06 GMT -6
tkaitkaiI think you make a good point, everybody doesn’t drive Ferraris, but a Chevy still gets you where you need to go. Warm by design was never aimed at the high end: always a value proposition with lower costs as a primary goal. Personally, I do think there is a dimensionality to OB that plug ins don’t have, so I run a hybrid system, ob while tracking , itb for mixing with some ob on my mix bus. But there is no question modern plug ins sound really good too. It will be interesting to hear tracks from the Warm studio, with the ssl board and Lynx conversion, bet they will sound great.
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Post by Ward on Mar 15, 2022 5:12:59 GMT -6
However . . . Taste is something you can develop a taste for "Taste" is mostly in the nose, as a matter of fact. Well, that stinks. (queue Chrisparov)
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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 15, 2022 7:37:07 GMT -6
Just track through the AWS. I’ve never had a problem doing as such. If you can’t make a record on an AWS I don’t know what to tell ya...
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Post by mcirish on Mar 15, 2022 9:21:18 GMT -6
I needed another preamp for more drum channels. I picked up the WA-412 and replaced the opamps with CAPI CA-0252's. I think it sounds good. Is there better? Well, I might like my Daking a bit more but the WA-412 is working just fine. I think it's pretty close to an API. At least it's close enough to the sound I want to hear. If my drums suck, I don't think that is the main culprit. Warm makes some pretty good mid-level stuff. I would imagine for most people that it fills a need and works well enough.
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Post by Ward on Mar 15, 2022 11:56:34 GMT -6
SNIP If you can’t make a record on an AWS I don’t know what to tell ya... You're either A. A total elitist who demands nothing short of perfection with his designer jelly beans or B. Clueless and reads about how other people make records without ever doing it
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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 15, 2022 12:32:12 GMT -6
SNIP If you can’t make a record on an AWS I don’t know what to tell ya... You're either A. A total elitist who demands nothing short of perfection with his designer jelly beans or B. Clueless and reads about how other people make records without ever doing it Hey - can’t I be a little bit of both?!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 12:32:57 GMT -6
Just track through the AWS. I’ve never had a problem doing as such. If you can’t make a record on an AWS I don’t know what to tell ya... All the newer "super analogue" SSL stuff sounds awesome. Except for the treble on the cheapo interface they make. But that still sounds way better than Presonus.
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