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Post by OtisGreying on Sept 27, 2022 6:03:46 GMT -6
As to the original question . . . I dislike dead recording. So there's such a thing as too much absorption. Diffusion and a little bit of space is better anyhow. IMHO Same. I really dispise vocal booths & rarely use 'em. Only if there isn't another option. Seems like every studio on the planet either by design or accident winds up with an odd little space... A kinda glorified closet that's so small 'ya gotta go outside to change your mind. Then cover the walls with foam or panels and stick a singer in there. Hey check out our vocal booth its rad! It always sucks. Doesn't sound good and most singers tend to hate being shoved in there for long hours. Shoving a guitar amp into a padded cell is one thing. Vocals? Percussion? Horn players? Entirely another. So fast forward 7 months and I'm switching studio areas to a master bedroom in a house. It's H 11.5ft x W12.75 x L 19 ft, so quite a bit bigger. I experimented recording some vocals and felt they were quite a bit brighter than I was used to - makes sense now given I was in a foley booth before. So it seems the balance is better in this room but the acoustic problems are bigger, low end is smeary and the higher up the spectrum is echo-y (of course it isn't treated yet).
So
I've got 8 6 foot tube traps and various absorption panels to experiment with and I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on like 3-4 QRD/Skyline diffusers to try and not re-do the overly dead recording space experience I've had the last 4 years. It seems like if I can make the reflections in the room sound musical the recording will actually be much better/balanced here than in that foley booth! I hope!
I think my prior thinking was any reflections in the high end is that it would sound like reverb, or something splashy and unwanted - I think I'm now understanding that if high energy is diffused properly recordings will not necessarily sound reverb-y but actually more present and natural. right?
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 27, 2022 7:01:39 GMT -6
Good luck, its worth experimenting ! We have similarly sized rooms. I am not using monitors now, so moved my desk to mid side of room to open up the two ends. So, now, I have a sort of open vocal recording area at one end of my room : lots of absorption but I also moved my large curved diffusers there centred on the mid line. Haven't recorded yet, but I can already tell its sounds crisper then before, less room muck. Just going to experiment and hear ! ibb.co/PwVfCz1
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Post by OtisGreying on Sept 27, 2022 15:32:46 GMT -6
Good luck, its worth experimenting ! We have similarly sized rooms. I am not using monitors now, so moved my desk to mid side of room to open up the two ends. So, now, I have a sort of open vocal recording area at one end of my room : lots of absorption but I also moved my large curved diffusers there centred on the mid line. Haven't recorded yet, but I can already tell its sounds crisper then before, less room muck. Just going to experiment and hear ! ibb.co/PwVfCz1Your absorption game is strong kcatt! Those black panels to the left and right look hefty, did you buy those or make them? I’m looking for something similar that will really absorb down in the lower vocal range cause I’m a baritone singer. Also, you sing with those diffusers pointed at your back right? I was assuming I should put them directly ahead of me where I’m looking at the furthest wall but that seems like an interesting set up too, I’m sure you have absorption behind them?
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 27, 2022 16:02:36 GMT -6
Ha ha, those tall gobos are actually knock down bookshelf kits that were on sale .
I reinforced their backs, stuffed with roxul, covered fronts and put on wheels, so they can be rolled around as needed.
I’ll experiment with singing into and away from diffussers, they are also roxul stuffed and have a perforated back. They are in front of my actual wall 2x4 absorbers and the corner bass traps and below the clouds.
The low ceiling and room dimensions/modes were always problematic, so ended up building a lot of absorbers.
Of course, diffusers were originally at back of room, but it is mounted in a frame with wheels so also can be easily moved around .
Its good to experiment.
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Post by OtisGreying on Sept 27, 2022 16:23:56 GMT -6
Ha ha, those tall gobos are actually knock down bookshelf kits that were on sale . I reinforced their backs, stuffed with roxul, covered fronts and put on wheels, so they can be rolled around as needed. I’ll experiment with singing into and away from diffussers, they are also roxul stuffed and have a perforated back. They are in front of my actual wall 2x4 absorbers and the corner bass traps and below the clouds. The low ceiling and room dimensions/modes were always problematic, so ended up building a lot of absorbers. Of course, diffusers were originally at back of room, but it is mounted in a frame with wheels so also can be easily moved around . Its good to experiment. So you bought a bookshelf kit and just didn’t install the shelves? I’m thinking I may want to do the same to get something as tall and deep as that. And being able to move it around would be fantastic.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 27, 2022 16:26:51 GMT -6
I put in the mid one and screwed it in place for some structural integrity, that created the two large rectangular deep cavities, stuffed with two layers of roxul.
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Post by jmoose on Sept 27, 2022 17:22:14 GMT -6
I think my prior thinking was any reflections in the high end is that it would sound like reverb, or something splashy and unwanted - I think I'm now understanding that if high energy is diffused properly recordings will not necessarily sound reverb-y but actually more present and natural. right? Yeah... something like that! I dig having space around things. The ability to breathe. Even if the room is "dead" or "neutral" there's a difference between a large space and a small space... its more then early reflections & all that. Just about any room, things can only get so loud before the space starts to get uncomfortable. Audio from the source needs a place to go... like a stupid loud guitar cab and it just starts compressing the air out of the room? The mics hear that. Most of the vocals I've ever cut have been done in the big room. If there's a dead wall I'll take advantage of that but more often then not I'll hang a couple packing blankets to tame things down & kill any "natural" reverb that might be occurring. Get "the space" for things to breathe without echo coming back. Final position of the singer has a lot to do with where they're comfortable. If someone wants to live in a booth? This is not a problem. Some people (most?!) don't want to face the control room & have people watching them... maybe there's a far corner in the big room where I can build them a little gobo fort. Depends. You seen this? From the Sound City/606 soundtrack... Couple shots where you can see the whole vocal setup. Looks like a Bock 251 in the big room... just a packing blanket behind the mic. Go to 2:20 and its totally clear and so not fancy. I'd bet $100 that maybe Vig & Grohl don't dig vocal booths either? If they did they'd probably have used it right?
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 27, 2022 18:03:13 GMT -6
Remember, a diffuser diffuses, not reflects, so it can make a smaller room seem larger than it is, back on my experimentation jag, but i think if you experiment with placement, absorption and diffusion, you will find a sweet spot.
Having some mobility with the diffusers and absorbers creates flexibility for your experimentation, after-all each singer will be different too!
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Post by OtisGreying on Sept 27, 2022 21:36:39 GMT -6
Is diffusion in the 800hz-3k range useful for tracking? I’m wondering if that’s pretty low. I would think like the 5k+ range is the area to diffuse? Vocals, gtr etc? Assuming you have adequate absorption
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 28, 2022 1:19:58 GMT -6
I’m considering a set of 8 tube traps for recording. My control room is my recording room - and it’s a foley booth from the 80s I think, but the room is CRAMMED with my equipment, and some non music related storage - metal chairs, metal table/ drawer/ furniture, it’s just my circumstance in this particular place so I can’t take that stuff out. So sound is bouncing off of a lot of things actually and I think there are quite a few reflections hitting my recordings from the spot where I record because of all this stuff surrounding me. My stems often sound bloomy in the lows and low mids - lots of resonating there. Most it’s vocals and acoustic guitar that I’m tracking. But if I’m wrong and it’s fine as is - would there be such a thing as having too much absorption in a recording environment? Could that be a bad thing for vocal recording in particular? Thanks guys. My room is set up so there’s a sliding scale (in 3rds) of treatment down the length of the room (save for bass traps in each corner) So where my speakers are there’s a lot of treatment including cloud traps, the next third has no ceiling treatment and less absorption and the final third has only diffusion and no absorption at all. I then decide which 3rd I’m going to record in depending on the effect I’m after. So, vocals done down the treated end don’t sound too damped to me just very dry and intimate. The live end sound very “live” so to speak. I also use a large movable acoustic screen to put behind me when I’m tracking vocals. I don’t think there’s any right or wrong just different acoustic effects you either like or don’t. I mean you can record in the bathroom if you wanted that sound! It’s all valid.
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