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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 18, 2022 3:44:03 GMT -6
There is always a place for the downlow.
Good to remember AS is a small company , so building small runs for immediate sale maximizes it’s resources, and reduces costs and inefficiency ( storage etc.)
It invests in its lead, build, testing time upfront and only sells when batches are ready to go: so, build, sell, ship, but there will never be unlimited supply.
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 19, 2022 19:02:16 GMT -6
This is crazy. I was on the ball and couldn’t even add to cart the moment it showed in stock. I’m out.
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Post by enlav on Feb 19, 2022 19:15:50 GMT -6
Only five units hit the shelves tonight, so I wouldn't get too disheartened; if you think of it this way, there's a 305 still up 14 minutes after the drop and those were practically impossible to get even.... two months after they first released?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 19, 2022 19:16:43 GMT -6
Ya, the auction can be a drag, but there will be more opportunity.
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 19, 2022 19:47:59 GMT -6
Meh, didn’t mean to sound disgruntled. I’ve got a lot of great gear already. Audioscape makes pretty great stuff.
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Post by matt on Feb 20, 2022 21:16:10 GMT -6
I tried to order a pair of MEQs last night. Starting at exactly 8:00:00 EST/6:00:00 MST, it took me 55 seconds to move through the order/payment process only to see the dreaded "quantity unavailable" message at the end of the transaction. I don't think I can do it any faster. As others have said, it's very disappointing to want a product (and a pair of EQPs too) only to have to play the "concert ticket" game -repeatedly- just to close on a purchase. Because, in the end, ordering a product should not be a game.
It's very clear that demand for AS products far exceeds supply. While it can be an envious position for a company to be in, insufficient product availability can, and does, drive off customers. One of the greatest sins in business is to turn away people with cash in hand. It's a shame, the products are quality- I like my D-COMP very much, which I successfully ordered on my first try! I guess I got "lucky".
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 20, 2022 23:46:53 GMT -6
What I don’t understand is why they don’t give a customer the option of prepayment to secure a unit when available. AS could protect itself and say unit would be available in x months or you can request a full refund. The luck of auction system means there is no one ahead of anybody, so it wouldn’t be preferential, just a decision a customer makes. It nice to think you are not passing off good people, but let’s be frank, the current vagaries of the luck of the draw buy does.
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Post by christophert on Feb 21, 2022 3:57:09 GMT -6
Its a shit fight either way they go. Look at the INSANE backlog for Coil, Heiserman and Highland Dynamics (three companies that I spent nearly a year to move to the position of ready to ship ) Audioscape are operating in a crazy time, shortages of items, shipping madness, Covid, unreliable suppliers etc etc. I do recommend reaching out to them if you have had multiple failed attempts to purchase - very good communicators and good people
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Post by askomiko on Feb 21, 2022 4:12:33 GMT -6
Better that than the way of the Stam. Hmm, I made a poem.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 21, 2022 4:39:03 GMT -6
Depends: it’s a choice, not saying the wait is good, but Josh makes some unique gear that you can’t get elsewhere.
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Post by deaconblues on Feb 21, 2022 9:14:11 GMT -6
I’m not particularly in the market, but if I were, this kind of stuff would turn me off. Why not take pre-orders and deliver the product to whomever wants it? OK, I have talked to the AS guys a couple of times and have nothing to do with this one and more or less agree BUT. In a world where it seams everything is made of unobtainium and unknown inflation, yeah I can see this as a way to figure out how elastic your market is. It’s also a damn cheap way to generate some publicity on the cheap. This. It’s tactically smart. Proof? How about a 4-page thread that keeps their name in people’s mouths, is stuffed full of current and future customer insights, and isn’t really too much about the product but about the desire for a product.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 21, 2022 9:16:40 GMT -6
No question, AS makes great gear and they deliver, it’s just ordering which is problematic .
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Post by matt on Feb 21, 2022 10:06:04 GMT -6
What I don’t understand is why they don’t give a customer the option of prepayment to secure a unit when available. I would gladly participate in this kind of ordering method. One of the vendors in my other obsession, visual astronomy (Astro-Physics), uses a simple wait list- sign up for a product and receive notification when one is available. Customers are notified in the order they signed up to a particular list, and they have a short period of time to respond and make payment (I don't remember exactly how long, but it's no more than a day or two). They build their products in batches they call "production runs", and from a fabrication perspective, they are much more complex than any piece of audio gear will ever be. There's absolutely nothing unique about their business model. They don't require a deposit, and most of their telescopes and mounts are $10K+. Their owner base (including myself) is rabidly loyal in spite of lengthy wait times for some products. For them, the wait list system works, and customers don't feel at-risk because AP does not demand up-front payment for items that do not yet exist.
I understand that AS is a small company, and may have challenges with suppliers. And their "batches" are very small for everything they make due to various factors including finding, training, and keeping skilled assemblers. OK fine, it's how the world is these days. My hope is that AS can see a way to build their business to meet their customer base in spite of these challenges. And I am ready, willing and able to support their growth with multiple purchases. Heck, if availability become more general, I'd end up owning most of their product line. Otherwise, my gear budget will end up being spent elsewhere, or not at all, which would be a shame.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 21, 2022 10:36:24 GMT -6
Makes sense to me and why not give customers the option?
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shawnh
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by shawnh on Feb 21, 2022 10:40:12 GMT -6
As others have stated - there is no great solution for these guys. Personally I prefer the way audio scape handles it. At least when you do get lucky then it’s on the way and you get your gear. Pre-orders and/or waiting months/years for something I’ve already paid for bothers me a lot more. I guess I’ve been pretty lucky so far. My golden 58 is supposed to be here today!!
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Post by deaconblues on Feb 21, 2022 11:25:29 GMT -6
What I don’t understand is why they don’t give a customer the option of prepayment to secure a unit when available. I would gladly participate in this kind of ordering method. One of the vendors in my other obsession, visual astronomy (Astro-Physics), uses a simple wait list- sign up for a product and receive notification when one is available. Customers are notified in the order they signed up to a particular list, and they have a short period of time to respond and make payment (I don't remember exactly how long, but it's no more than a day or two). They build their products in batches they call "production runs", and from a fabrication perspective, they are much more complex than any piece of audio gear will ever be. There's absolutely nothing unique about their business model. They don't require a deposit, and most of their telescopes and mounts are $10K+. Their owner base (including myself) is rabidly loyal in spite of lengthy wait times for some products. For them, the wait list system works, and customers don't feel at-risk because AP does not demand up-front payment for items that do not yet exist.
I understand that AS is a small company, and may have challenges with suppliers. And their "batches" are very small for everything they make due to various factors including finding, training, and keeping skilled assemblers. OK fine, it's how the world is these days. My hope is that AS can see a way to build their business to meet their customer base in spite of these challenges. And I am ready, willing and able to support their growth with multiple purchases. Heck, if availability become more general, I'd end up owning most of their product line. Otherwise, my gear budget will end up being spent elsewhere, or not at all, which would be a shame.
I prefer this approach as well. Have personally worked on systems like this for brands in other industries who had limited products with high demand, I’ve seen it work. Customers feel like their time is respected, and the business gets to cut out certain unknowns (like product demand, sizing, options, etc) while optimizing their resources to deal with supply chain issues.
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Post by jhsmastering on Feb 21, 2022 12:10:20 GMT -6
What I don’t understand is why they don’t give a customer the option of prepayment to secure a unit when available. I would gladly participate in this kind of ordering method. One of the vendors in my other obsession, visual astronomy (Astro-Physics), uses a simple wait list- sign up for a product and receive notification when one is available. Customers are notified in the order they signed up to a particular list, and they have a short period of time to respond and make payment (I don't remember exactly how long, but it's no more than a day or two). They build their products in batches they call "production runs", and from a fabrication perspective, they are much more complex than any piece of audio gear will ever be. There's absolutely nothing unique about their business model. They don't require a deposit, and most of their telescopes and mounts are $10K+. Their owner base (including myself) is rabidly loyal in spite of lengthy wait times for some products. For them, the wait list system works, and customers don't feel at-risk because AP does not demand up-front payment for items that do not yet exist.
I understand that AS is a small company, and may have challenges with suppliers. And their "batches" are very small for everything they make due to various factors including finding, training, and keeping skilled assemblers. OK fine, it's how the world is these days. My hope is that AS can see a way to build their business to meet their customer base in spite of these challenges. And I am ready, willing and able to support their growth with multiple purchases. Heck, if availability become more general, I'd end up owning most of their product line. Otherwise, my gear budget will end up being spent elsewhere, or not at all, which would be a shame.
BradM of Louder than Liftoff is using this method for their new Silver Bullet mk2's, as well as Chroma+. Personally, I think it'd be cool if AudioScape did this, but their business is their business, and it is working for them, if not very well for some of us.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 21, 2022 12:18:09 GMT -6
I wasn’t suggesting year’s of delay. it seems to me that AS is pretty on top of time to market estimates.
We don’t know the numbers , but I bet for every happy customer who closed a deal, there are 3-4 who didn’t. Initially, I am sure they will try again later.
But as the luck of the draw purchase system wares thin, do you think 100% of those retry at every subsequent auction?
I don’t and that’s where to me the luck of the draw system could be improved.
Is it actually fair, that one person might secure a unit their first time and another person might try numerous times and not secure a unit?
I understand you can sort of just have fun with it and get a kick if you secure a unit, but,,,,,
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Post by nudwig on Feb 21, 2022 12:37:31 GMT -6
Yeah, I've tried 4-5 times through the years and I guess I'm just slow as I never had luck. Being it's 5p for me when they drop I'm usually in a session, a few times I worked the schedule to open up a gap around that time and after those didn't work I quit bothering even to try. I really respect how they've managed to keep units coming out and customers interested so I'm definitely not knocking what works for them but I have a million things to balance so I prefer the LTL waitlist method. Maybe after all this weird NFT treatment of gear subsides I'll try again or pick one up at Stubhub/Reverb. Or perhaps we need a dedicated person around here that has quick draw fingers.
Complaints aside this Golden 58 looks awesome!
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Post by Guitar on Feb 21, 2022 12:41:12 GMT -6
I was hoping for a gold SM58 with a "psychedelic teenager" Audioscape logo on it. Very disappointed!!
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Post by matt on Feb 21, 2022 14:28:29 GMT -6
Pre-orders and/or waiting months/years for something I’ve already paid for bothers me a lot more. I feel the same way about 100 percent pre-payment. It's why I like the wait list approach- it serves as a "soft" commitment to buy, but is not binding on the customer, and failure to deliver by the seller does not mean that the customer has been ripped off. Plus, a well-implemented first in/first out list is inherently fair, and easy/cheap to manage. It's the Internet version of waiting in line, with no cutting allowed!
Alternately, an "official" order could be placed, but not charged until shipped. If wait times drag on, the customer can cancel. This is how GC/Musician's Friend works. Heck, if GC can do it successfully, then anyone can. VK has a "request delivery ETA" feature for out of stock items. The tech to support this sort of Web storefront functionality is well-known. There are ways to get it done.
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Post by locrain on Feb 21, 2022 23:05:32 GMT -6
I tried to order a pair of MEQs last night. Starting at exactly 8:00:00 EST/6:00:00 MST, it took me 55 seconds to move through the order/payment process only to see the dreaded "quantity unavailable" message at the end of the transaction. I don't think I can do it any faster. You should definitely be able to do it faster unless there is a serious issue with your internet speed or your computer. It should take 3-4 clicks, no entry of any info, that all needs to be stored in advance. Add to cart, hit checkout, you have one more click to increase the quantity to 2, then you move to payment, 1 click to confirm, 1 click to confirm shipping address, then 1 click to place the order. At least I think that's the order, it's a whirlwind, so I vould be mixing the order up, but the point is that of you have it set up as you should, it is only a mater of a few mouse clicks to leave an order, if you do anything that doesn't involve clicking the mouse you'll be too slow. I would strongly recommend that you contact Chris whenever you are looking at getting a pair. The bloodsport lottery is hard enough without the extra click and cart update to add a 2nd unit, that might be what slows you down too much. Chris will get you a matched pair if you want, their stuff is all pretty tight, but there is enough individual variation it's nice to get a matched set. I wouldn't recommend ordering a set through the normal channels, it would definitely pay to contact Chris and explain what you're looking for; I would be surprised if he did not help you out.
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Post by askomiko on Feb 22, 2022 10:13:09 GMT -6
Waiting list would be better. Ordering at 3am doesn't work for us in European time zones. On the other hand, if everything is constantly sold out, they don't need more demand at the moment.
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Post by lpedrum on Feb 22, 2022 19:24:26 GMT -6
The limited run Golden 58 is an outlier for Audio-Scape, and as such can't really be viewed as a good measuring stick for ordering their products. I've bought two AS products, the Opto Comp and the 76D. I had no problem purchasing either on the first try. Yes, I do live in the same time zone. But honestly I'd set my alarm for 3am if that's what it took to get their products. Or if I was working I'd have someone I trust make the purchase for me.
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Post by Ward on Feb 23, 2022 11:01:21 GMT -6
As most of you know, I am affiliated with Audioscape now. outreach@audio-scape.com I do my best to assist customers who haven't been able to get what they need when they need it - as much as humanly possible and will continue to do so.
As for the 'lottery' as some have called it? It's company policy. We won't pre-sell ANYTHING we might not have available due to supply chain issues. And supply chain is the only issue right now. The company is amazing. The staff are all incredible. If parts such as transformers weren't in such short supply now, s lot more inventory would be available two or three times a week. And everybody is feeling it.
The RGO family is VERY VERY important to Audio-Scape and we'll do everything we can to get everybody sorted ASAP. Please be patient. We aren't going to take your money and make you wait and wait and wait.
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