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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 6, 2022 10:40:09 GMT -6
Love that Third Eye, glad to hear of your console experience. I may head the same way, but not for a while until I have a space.
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Post by bricejchandler on Jan 6, 2022 11:00:58 GMT -6
The Jim Williams Delta does sound really good, MUCH MUCH MUCH better than an original Delta. I have a friend who has a small one and I really liked how it sounded and I thought really hard about it when I was console shopping but then I priced it out and for the console I was checking out, a 16 channel which you can get used for around $500, getting upgrades on all channels, busses and psu was close to 5K. That was 8 years ago, but for 5k you start to see some really nice used consoles that don't need to be modded to sound good.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2022 11:09:21 GMT -6
I'd like to know a bit more about your SSL Big Six experience Shadow. What was your previous interface(s)?Urr, so far I've been through a ULN-8, Apogee Symphony MK1, UA Apollo X6, MOTU 1248, Audient ID, a Pro Tools Mbox Pro and an Mbox1.. I'm sure there's more.. Anyway my last interface was the Apollo X6 (I still have the MOTU for reasons).. I s the Six your main A/D-D/A ?
It is now yeah.. Do you use the pres, or other pres, or both?
I have two Shelford Channels and two 6176's. If I need extra's though I will use the board pre-amps as they are perfectly fine.. Please say more about the "massively dramatic difference".
I've not had much time with any of my new equipment yet and I'm still waiting on bits, but this is the difference a recent purchase made.. realgearonline.com/thread/5871/bettermaker-mastering-limiterKcat was gracious enough to donate a track to test it out on. From thereon everything I've tested out keeps accumulating differences, I have the Shelfords (with some Stam 2A's) as a return (HW) insert on 1 - 2, 6176's on 3 / 4 (using 1176's with the split function), then a Vari-mu (IGS Tubecore Mastering) and Lexicon 92 as an FX insert (going through SSL Violet EQ's), API 529 as a master bus comp, 2X API 5500's as bus / master bus EQ's and finally the Bettermaker mastering limiter on the master HW insert loop. At that point the board is packed, there's nothing more I can route but that's fine with me (and my wallet). Even the Shelford's alone (remember the ISK thread?) makes quite a difference in terms of depth, width, colour and presence as Kcat so aptly described. I will say though, some modern day song / ITB enthusiasts I've talked to think that sort of sonic presentation "sounds weird".. So, yeah whatever.. Totally worth it. Anyway, there's a point at which this becomes a bit "much".. I had a larger setup with the SSL 4K but like another mixer on GS it got bypassed a lot, the workflow was just easier ITB.. When you've got options to the nth degree it does the opposite IMO of enable creativity, great if you're running a commercial facility (sometimes) but not so much when you're self tracking. The Big Six was a bit of a saving grace, it stopped me from going overboard.. Also by this point there's no doubt in my noggin that the limiting factor is me, if someone can't make a setup like this work then quit, sell up and go on a few nice holidays. I'll tell you all about my holiday's shortly.. Do you use the Big Six for mixing, can you simultaneously use Plug-ins in the DAW too?
Yes, I still use surgical ITB EQ on the sends to the board.. It's great for dipping your toes into the water because you can use it as a fully hybrid setup. When you're starting out in the OTB world you can use the broad stroke EQ's and G-Comp as additions to good effect, then just use plugins to do the rest if you wish. It sorta limits the board but it's better than having to buy everything at once.. If you need more tracks than the board can offer, sort it out ITB and stem it.. Simple. Oh, congratulations on getting it, and good luck!
Appreciate it ..
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Post by bricejchandler on Jan 6, 2022 11:23:09 GMT -6
Sounds like a really fun setup Shadowk. I'm curious what kind of music do you mainly work on? What number of tracks are you usually working with in a mix?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2022 11:32:21 GMT -6
Sounds like a really fun setup Shadowk. I'm curious what kind of music do you mainly work on? What number of tracks are you usually working with in a mix? Yeah, I had to get a bit creative with the SSL.. Up until this point I've always mixed metal (the extra growly type) and I'd always want a 24 track mixer ideally, presently I'm veering more towards rock / pop (pop rock or alt) and acoustic variations of. Took me a few weeks to figure it all out but I managed to get synths / piano's, vox, vox bus, bass, guitars and drums working on a 12 channel without having to bypass the board's EQ or lose functionality (like parallel mixing). That being said I'm on the limit..
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Post by bricejchandler on Jan 6, 2022 11:43:07 GMT -6
Sounds like a really fun setup Shadowk. I'm curious what kind of music do you mainly work on? What number of tracks are you usually working with in a mix? Yeah, I had to get a bit creative with the SSL.. Up until this point I've always mixed metal (the extra growly type) and I'd always want a 24 track mixer ideally, presently I'm veering more towards rock / pop (pop rock or alt) and acoustic variations of. Took me a few weeks to figure it all out but I managed to get synths / piano's, vox, vox bus, bass, guitars and drums working on a 12 channel without having to bypass the board's EQ or lose functionality (like parallel mixing). That being said I'm on the limit.. Yeah for some metal you need 24 tracks just for the drums haha. You seem to have put a lot of thought into it and I'm glad it's working out. After having mixed for 10 years on a 36 track console and being in the box for the last 5 years, each time I think of going hybrid I can't wrap my head around how I'd go about it, I'd completely have to change how I mix since basically I just copy pasted my OTB setup ITB. But, like you from the posts I've read, really feel like something is missing with my ITB mixing.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jan 6, 2022 16:17:21 GMT -6
I'd like to know a bit more about your SSL Big Six experience Shadow. Thanks to the comments here I've let go the idea of a tracking mixer until I have a room that I can in fact, track in. That's not such a big deal anyway, start with a Soundcraft and some strategic mics, then move on up if work allows. Another .02, I think this is the direction I would take if I was getting into the mixer route. Either a Six or a Ghost (preferably moded by JW) or similar. I shopped those for quite a while five or so years ago and almost jumped in. I find consoles of most any flavor inspiring but that's just my opinion. The Six looks super cool but I lost track of that long thread on it as far as how it performed. Now there's that bigger one too. You could also upgrade down the road and get a Burl B2 or something similar for A/D. Lots of options on improving the tracking front if needed.
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Post by michaelcleary on Jan 6, 2022 20:02:37 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 6, 2022 22:27:11 GMT -6
Should I ever make it to having a room I can track a band in, I'll keep that mixer in mind, thanks Michael.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 6, 2022 22:51:54 GMT -6
Thanks for taking time with all my questions Shadow. Your list of interfaces is of brands I've always wished I could try, the Symphony, MOTU, Audient, etc. How would you compare the Big Six converters to the Apollo and Symphony?
Conversion is my first reason for thinking of moving on from the Apollo. I had a Burl Bomber here for a week, and it sure was sweeter than the Apollo, though pretty highly colored.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 1:56:03 GMT -6
Thanks for taking time with all my questions Shadow. Your list of interfaces is of brands I've always wished I could try, the Symphony, MOTU, Audient, etc. How would you compare the Big Six converters to the Apollo and Symphony? I don't have an issue with most modern converters, tech has moved on and most of them are very good. It's mainly about features, support, drivers etc. for me. Unfortunately the Apollo X has a few annoying sonic quirks.. Firstly there's a mid forward thing going on, not in an analytically pleasant way either. A few smooth guitar reference tracks sounded a bit like buzz saws. Also it doesn't seem to have much in the way of headroom via the analogue section, congested or (loud) tracks tend to fade into mush when chorus's kick in. The bass definition is cool but apart from that the characteristics of the Apollo don't connect with the specs of the unit. The MOTU isn't a million miles away, it just doesn't have that mid forward squashy thing even if there's a bit less definition due to it. The MOTU's headphone amps could be better (they struggle to drive my AT R70x's), I've had issues with drivers on Windows and it's a TB2 interface which needs a converter. The Symphony is a great if not very expensive all rounder. The SSL is as good as any I've tried so far, would have preferred TB but ahh well...
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 7, 2022 21:52:54 GMT -6
Than you sir!
I like TB too. It made me wonder how a satellite and SSL Big Six would work together, (assuming I could afford to get a satellite to add to the Big Six).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2022 1:54:54 GMT -6
Than you sir! I like TB too. It made me wonder how a satellite and SSL Big Six would work together, (assuming I could afford to get a satellite to add to the Big Six). If you're talking about something like an Octo you just plug it into your computer. It'll work.. The question is why bother? Most of the UA plugs I used weren't made by them, the 6176's I have are mainly used as limiters and I'll probably replace them with some 500 series Serpent Splice's. Tokyo Dawn / Logic is good enough for the clean surgical stuff.. UA as a software / HW universe is great if you want a quality single manufacturer all in one system, when you take one foot out of the door with the SSL for example there's better options. Also for the price of an Octo you could get a lunchbox and a couple of FMR comps to mess around with. Quite fancy an RNLA myself.. I'll eventually get some Summit TLA-100's to replace the Stam's as they've not exactly been reliable although, I dunno the FMR stuff is cool despite it being dirt cheap..
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Post by Guitar on Jan 8, 2022 12:59:55 GMT -6
@soriantis it's pretty inspiring to follow your gear journey this past year or so. Your arrival at a hyper-modern streamlined hybrid hard/soft system is pretty incredible. And you've clearly put a lot of consideration into the entire thing.
I'm still an unapologetic In The Boxer but it's setups like yours, these sort of small room, one desk hybrid things that really excite my imagination.
As opposed to the Abbey Road / Blackbird types of setups that in my opinion are sort of dated in 2022.
Also the "Imaginary Studio" is something I've probably spent thousands of hours daydreaming about.. it's a good pastime. For me, it's the mobile recording setup that I'm obsessed with. Even though I only do jobs like that maybe twice a year. But it's fun to dream.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 8, 2022 13:02:33 GMT -6
That's food for thought Shadow, thanks. The idea of a lunchbox instead of UAD's plug-ins is brilliant. I think it would end up costing much more, but the truth is only the ATR-102 and maybe the Ocean Way are important to me. There are probably options I haven't explored as far as the Ocean Way is concerned, but the ATR-102 has been my "betterizer", on every track since 2012. That's the only plug-in I haven't found anything that would replace it.
I always wanted a lunchbox, I just couldn't get past laying all that money out for a box with nothing in it, when I could just buy rack mount gear.
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Post by reddirt on Jan 8, 2022 19:18:29 GMT -6
Martin, is there a single ATR-102 setting you use on every mix or is it song specific. Cheers, Ross
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 8, 2022 23:20:12 GMT -6
Hey Reddirt, I use Smooth Vocal on the 2 bus, occasionally the 30 ips mastering setting. Don't be fooled by the "vocal", it works better than all the other presets. I haven't bothered with the other settings in years because those two work beautifully.
I almost always open up the hood and dial away the hiss. On rare occasions I tweak a few things, but mainly that's it. The trick then is to toggle the reproduce and record buttons until it sounds the way you like and the levels don't peak. I then add a pinch of compression later on the 2 bus.
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