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Post by tim on Dec 7, 2021 10:33:15 GMT -6
I began tinkering around with Logic a bunch lately as I've been having issues with PT. I actually used Logic for a bit back in the day when it was owned by emagic. I remember it had the weirdest mouse interaction with controls where they didn't click until you released the mouse button. Drove me mad. Anyway it seems like the UI has really improved over the years and it feels much more intuitive. The shortcut keys also seem pretty intuitive.
So are there really any big "gotchas" or issues with Logic these days that I should be aware of?
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 7, 2021 11:04:59 GMT -6
I began tinkering around with Logic a bunch lately as I've been having issues with PT. I actually used Logic for a bit back in the day when it was owned by emagic. I remember it had the weirdest mouse interaction with controls where they didn't click until you released the mouse button. Drove me mad. Anyway it seems like the UI has really improved over the years and it feels much more intuitive. The shortcut keys also seem pretty intuitive. So are there really any big "gotchas" or issues with Logic these days that I should be aware of? When I switched from PT to Logic (many years ago), the biggest “gotcha” for me was how you couldn’t click directly on the area where the waveforms are (on the Arrange page). Eventually I got used to just clicking at the top of the timeline, but that took me awhile to get used to the new muscle memory. There is the Marquis tool that allows for more PT-like behavior, but I just got used to a different workflow. The one tip that comes to my mind is probably this: make as many of your own key commands as you like. Customize those to your heart’s content, and then back them up in the cloud somewhere. Logic can do almost anything PT can do, but it will likely do it in a different way, and hopefully you can use a custom key command to make that particular function easier for yourself.
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Post by tim on Dec 7, 2021 12:17:09 GMT -6
Yeah there are a few things I sorted out right away so that I wasn't forced to just click on the playhead in the timeline. That's too much mousing around. One was setting "Marquee tool click zones" so it's more like the PT smart tool and the other was remapping a few shortcut keys for the transport so hitting spacebar resets the playhead to the last position and shift-spacebar plays from the marquee spot. Good tip on backing up those key commands. Will do. Thanks!
One thing that still confuses me is the input monitoring. I have yet to really sort out how to bus all audio to one track as my main mix bus and then send that to a print bus which I can toggle the input monitor on/off to compare my current mix against the last mix I printed. Logic plays both the printed mix and the mix bus together. I think it has to do with whether software monitoring is enabled. Or perhaps I'm thinking too much like PT and not like Logic??
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 7, 2021 12:23:49 GMT -6
I was a user of Logic for a long time and remain a fan, but I started dabbling in Studio One a while back and dabbling turned into diving head in. I suggest you take a look before fully committing to Logic. The user interface in Studio One just feels more modern (actually, more modern than any of the DAWs) and there are some basic things that happen much more intuitively. I think the mixer is easier to use, advanced routing is more intuitive, and patching in external hardware is way simpler.
Again, most of these DAWs can do what the others do, it's a matter of workflows and preference. For me, even little things like the ability to resize my faders depending on what I'm doing would be hard to walk away from. Just one example.
Can't hurt to look.
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Post by tim on Dec 7, 2021 12:39:39 GMT -6
I was a user of Logic for a long time and remain a fan, but I started dabbling in Studio One a while back and dabbling turned into diving head in. I suggest you take a look before fulling committing to Logic. The user interface in Studio One just feels more modern (actually, more modern than any of the DAWs) and there are some basic things that happen much more intuitively. I think the mixer is easier to use, advanced routing is more intuitive, and patching in external hardware is way simpler. Again, most of these DAWs can do what the others do, it's a matter of workflows and preference. For me, even little things like the ability to resize my faders depending on what I'm doing would be hard to walk away from. Just one example. Can't hurt to look. Good call. I tried Studio One years ago but it didn't stick at the time. Just took a quick look and it's funny how it looks very much like Logic with the inspector on the side and the mixer on the bottom. Yeah the faders in Logic are tiny, but they have a long almost linear sweet spot around unity that makes them really usable at that size so long as your gain staging is right.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 7, 2021 12:56:45 GMT -6
I was a user of Logic for a long time and remain a fan, but I started dabbling in Studio One a while back and dabbling turned into diving head in. I suggest you take a look before fully committing to Logic. The user interface in Studio One just feels more modern (actually, more modern than any of the DAWs) and there are some basic things that happen much more intuitively. I think the mixer is easier to use, advanced routing is more intuitive, and patching in external hardware is way simpler. Again, most of these DAWs can do what the others do, it's a matter of workflows and preference. For me, even little things like the ability to resize my faders depending on what I'm doing would be hard to walk away from. Just one example. Can't hurt to look.
Becasue I use the RAVEN this is one big thing why I am running aroud the Studio One offer... ALso the workflow is extremly LOGICAL/Intuitive.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 7, 2021 13:43:58 GMT -6
I was a user of Logic for a long time and remain a fan, but I started dabbling in Studio One a while back and dabbling turned into diving head in. I suggest you take a look before fulling committing to Logic. The user interface in Studio One just feels more modern (actually, more modern than any of the DAWs) and there are some basic things that happen much more intuitively. I think the mixer is easier to use, advanced routing is more intuitive, and patching in external hardware is way simpler. Again, most of these DAWs can do what the others do, it's a matter of workflows and preference. For me, even little things like the ability to resize my faders depending on what I'm doing would be hard to walk away from. Just one example. Can't hurt to look. Good call. I tried Studio One years ago but it didn't stick at the time. Just took a quick look and it's funny how it looks very much like Logic with the inspector on the side and the mixer on the bottom. Yeah the faders in Logic are tiny, but they have a long almost linear sweet spot around unity that makes them really usable at that size so long as your gain staging is right. Logic is definitely my second favorite. Here are a few other things I like about Studio One - Mixer scenes are pretty cool and a unique feature - I like how they handle the FX chains for presets - CTC Console emulation sounds great in my opinion and does it a bit differently than others. Maybe similar to Harrison Mixbus in this respect? Not sure how that one works but CTC is smooth. - Clip gain editing super easy - I really like organizing my workflow by color and I also like how fast it is to hide/show what I do and don't want to see (groups, etc) - I use Faderport16 and it's pretty awesome with S1 Things I still miss about Logic - Swipe comping is so easy. Just stupid easy. - Take layering is fine in S1 but still feels more logical to me in Logic. - Logic integration on the Mac ecosystem is, of course, great. S1 is probably second best though I think.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 7, 2021 13:46:52 GMT -6
I was a user of Logic for a long time and remain a fan, but I started dabbling in Studio One a while back and dabbling turned into diving head in. I suggest you take a look before fully committing to Logic. The user interface in Studio One just feels more modern (actually, more modern than any of the DAWs) and there are some basic things that happen much more intuitively. I think the mixer is easier to use, advanced routing is more intuitive, and patching in external hardware is way simpler. Again, most of these DAWs can do what the others do, it's a matter of workflows and preference. For me, even little things like the ability to resize my faders depending on what I'm doing would be hard to walk away from. Just one example. Can't hurt to look.
Becasue I use the RAVEN this is one big thing why I am running aroud the Studio One offer... ALso the workflow is extremly LOGICAL/Intuitive.
Plus, the German engineering! (Incidentally, just started working for a German software company a few months ago for my day job and I can definitely see why the German developers are dominating in the audio software world. The German approach to manufacturing translates very nicely to software with great workflows and functional but attractive design.)
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Post by sirthought on Dec 7, 2021 15:29:02 GMT -6
One thing that still confuses me is the input monitoring. I have yet to really sort out how to bus all audio to one track as my main mix bus and then send that to a print bus which I can toggle the input monitor on/off to compare my current mix against the last mix I printed. Logic plays both the printed mix and the mix bus together. I think it has to do with whether software monitoring is enabled. Or perhaps I'm thinking too much like PT and not like Logic?? I've seen videos of engineers doing this with the print track in PT, but I've never figured out a way to do that smoothly in Logic, other than setting up solo/mute for those faders. If you figure it out, I'd love to know. My main experience with PT is seeing others use it in tutorials, which I've watched a lot. I actually love Logic , but PT seems to have: - more powerful group options. You can do more things with groups, including controlling a plugin across several tracks. - playlists that attach to the project in more useful ways. - Logic's I/O naming labels are global, not attached to a project. So if you are mixing for another band/producer it's much harder to get the bus/aux/routing labels setup the way they have their project created, even if it was also in Logic. Either you spend a ton of time re-typing your list of labels to match theirs (big NO), or you end up looking at a generic 'Aux 241' or whatever number it is, and having no clue what that effects bus is. I'm sure there's much more, but those things jump out at me when I see other's tutorials using PT. I find Logic to work pretty fast. The track stacks and comp folders are crazy good. And the stock instruments and tools like Space Designer are really robust. If I had a DAW like this in the early 90s, well, I could have created much more music over my career. LOL I have friends who only use Digital Performer, which I don't hear as many people talking about on the forums, but it seems unique in some nice ways. And the stock plugins on DP are very nice.
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Post by bradd on Dec 7, 2021 16:08:42 GMT -6
If you decide to move to Logic, you should definitely check out MusicTechHelpGuy's YouTube tutorials. When I made the move back in 2013, I watched all of those and made meticulous notes, which I still refer to on occasion.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 7, 2021 16:56:53 GMT -6
^^This^^
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 7, 2021 17:02:20 GMT -6
Becasue I use the RAVEN this is one big thing why I am running aroud the Studio One offer... ALso the workflow is extremly LOGICAL/Intuitive.
Plus, the German engineering! (Incidentally, just started working for a German software company a few months ago for my day job and I can definitely see why the German developers are dominating in the audio software world. The German approach to manufacturing translates very nicely to software with great workflows and functional but attractive design.)
I dont know I think the US is still more creative in digital Audio....but ... we are getting better. One good thing about our attitude is ... we only release stuff when we are stisfied with it. Did not knew that Studio One is made by Germans.
Germans in audio?
Native is famous. Steinberg Ex Emagic Brainworx
Uhe FLA BRA DDMF (??)
I know Germany is great in digital securty technology, in cars and some other stuff I dont have on my mind now. The only thing that always scares me that little Deutschalnd is the world third biggest export nation, working like crazy.
Are we as big as New Jersy, maybe smaler... need to go to bed now.
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Post by mjheck on Dec 7, 2021 17:05:44 GMT -6
A few things that come to mind for me - either gotchas or aha moments,, depending on my mood . 1) delay compensation has some options than can be confusing. I forget what mistake I made early on, but I think it involved setting delay compensation to “all,” recording some tracks that were routed through busses, then having those tracks out of time due to changes made on those busses. That was over a decade ago so it likely has been modified - or I just got burned and didn’t do it again . Worth reading up on that feature to make sure it is working how you work. 2) pan law. Logic defaults to -3dB compensated. I found regular “-3dB” behaved more how I expected panning to behave. 3) also on panning - know you can change a stereo track to pan in true stereo, where both channels move over (rather than, say, the high keys or the piano go all the way up and the low keys are turned all th way down. 4) lastly, similar to the panning, I really like being able to change the sends to pre and post pan and pre and post fader. That is another one of those right click kind of things. Sometimes the difference is negligible - sometimes it is a big difference. I feel like I learn something every session and I’ve been using Logic exclusively for fourteen years now. JMH
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 7, 2021 17:16:35 GMT -6
Plus, the German engineering! (Incidentally, just started working for a German software company a few months ago for my day job and I can definitely see why the German developers are dominating in the audio software world. The German approach to manufacturing translates very nicely to software with great workflows and functional but attractive design.)
I dont know I think the US is still more creative in digital Audio....but ... we are getting better. One good thing about our attitude is ... we only release stuff when we are stisfied with it. Did not knew that Studio One is made by Germans.
Germans in audio?
Native is famous. Steinberg Ex Emagic Brainworx
Uhe FLA BRA DDMF (??)
I know Germany is great in digital securty technology, in cars and some other stuff I dont have on my mind now. The only thing that always scares me that little Deutschalnd is the world third biggest export nation, working like crazy.
Are we as big as New Jersy, maybe smaler... need to go to bed now.
PreSonus is in the US, the software division is in Germany.
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Post by tim on Dec 7, 2021 17:24:11 GMT -6
I've seen videos of engineers doing this with the print track in PT, but I've never figured out a way to do that smoothly in Logic, other than setting up solo/mute for those faders. If you figure it out, I'd love to know. Best I've sorted out is like you mentioned and just do the solo thing between two the mix bus and my print track using option-click. Then I can just stack prints/bounces to alternate tracks on my print track. I've notice switching between alternate tracks has some lag which is annoying.
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Post by tim on Dec 7, 2021 17:27:22 GMT -6
If you decide to move to Logic, you should definitely check out MusicTechHelpGuy's YouTube tutorials. When I made the move back in 2013, I watched all of those and made meticulous notes, which I still refer to on occasion. yup seen a few of his videos. Actually found him while looking into the monogram cc.
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Post by tim on Dec 7, 2021 17:30:12 GMT -6
1) delay compensation has some options than can be confusing. I forget what mistake I made early on, but I think it involved setting delay compensation to “all,” recording some tracks that were routed through busses, then having those tracks out of time due to changes made on those busses. That was over a decade ago so it likely has been modified - or I just got burned and didn’t do it again . Worth reading up on that feature to make sure it is working how you work. Yeah that is a bit of concern for me as I also have a bunch of hardware inserts going. So far I haven't notice any issues there but that will certainly suck if it goes sideways. Thanks!
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deif
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by deif on Dec 7, 2021 18:54:48 GMT -6
The Logic Pro team is also German.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 7, 2021 19:20:13 GMT -6
One thing that still confuses me is the input monitoring. I have yet to really sort out how to bus all audio to one track as my main mix bus and then send that to a print bus which I can toggle the input monitor on/off to compare my current mix against the last mix I printed. Logic plays both the printed mix and the mix bus together. I think it has to do with whether software monitoring is enabled. Or perhaps I'm thinking too much like PT and not like Logic?? - Logic's I/O naming labels are global, not attached to a project. So if you are mixing for another band/producer it's much harder to get the bus/aux/routing labels setup the way they have their project created, even if it was also in Logic. Either you spend a ton of time re-typing your list of labels to match theirs (big NO), or you end up looking at a generic 'Aux 241' or whatever number it is, and having no clue what that effects bus is. This is one of those areas where the original DNA of the programs still pokes through: Logic was for composers and writers, people who had a studio set up that didn't change. Those areas have been closing over the years, but there are definitely still some holdouts like this one.
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deif
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by deif on Dec 7, 2021 19:26:07 GMT -6
I can't think of any "gotchas." Logic Pro just works... and you can't beat the CPU efficiency.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 7, 2021 19:38:50 GMT -6
I can't think of any "gotchas." Logic Pro just works... and you can't beat the CPU efficiency. I really do like Logic a lot, and have been using it for a long time, but Reaper (which I otherwise don't like very much) absolutely beats Logic in CPU efficiency. Like, kills it. To be fair, it kills everything else in that category, too.
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deif
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by deif on Dec 7, 2021 19:59:15 GMT -6
I can't think of any "gotchas." Logic Pro just works... and you can't beat the CPU efficiency. I really do like Logic a lot, and have been using it for a long time, but Reaper (which I otherwise don't like very much) absolutely beats Logic in CPU efficiency. Like, kills it. To be fair, it kills everything else in that category, too. Interesting. Reaper is what I use for my main job but I've never used it for music production. I should give it a shot.
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Post by sirthought on Dec 7, 2021 20:51:02 GMT -6
- Logic's I/O naming labels are global, not attached to a project. So if you are mixing for another band/producer it's much harder to get the bus/aux/routing labels setup the way they have their project created, even if it was also in Logic. Either you spend a ton of time re-typing your list of labels to match theirs (big NO), or you end up looking at a generic 'Aux 241' or whatever number it is, and having no clue what that effects bus is. This is one of those areas where the original DNA of the programs still pokes through: Logic was for composers and writers, people who had a studio set up that didn't change. Those areas have been closing over the years, but there are definitely still some holdouts like this one. You actually used to be able to save your labels with a separate file, like a preset. They dropped that after Logic 9.
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Post by tim on Dec 7, 2021 20:58:03 GMT -6
I can't think of any "gotchas." Logic Pro just works... and you can't beat the CPU efficiency. I really do like Logic a lot, and have been using it for a long time, but Reaper (which I otherwise don't like very much) absolutely beats Logic in CPU efficiency. Like, kills it. To be fair, it kills everything else in that category, too. Agree! I ventured into Reaper for a bit when I was using iZotope Iris 2 and PT came to a screeching halt when trying to run more than a few voices. Reaper handled it no problem. I was pretty blown away by its low CPU utilization. The thing I had against Reaper is it felt like a very steep learning curve to get going but once I had a handle on it, it was much faster for music produciton. I didn't really care for it for mixing because of all the extra setup you had to do to get VCAs working. And it also didn't play nicely with slate trigger at the time. I would imagine that's better now.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 7, 2021 20:58:54 GMT -6
This is one of those areas where the original DNA of the programs still pokes through: Logic was for composers and writers, people who had a studio set up that didn't change. Those areas have been closing over the years, but there are definitely still some holdouts like this one. You actually used to be able to save your labels with a separate file, like a preset. They dropped that after Logic 9. Huh - interesting. I withdraw my comment, members of the jury. Funny, there are a number of things I miss from Logic 9 (OS-level custom color palette being a big one). I don't remember using that feature back then, but I'm suddenly wondering if I did. I do remember having different I/O labels for two different clients. Now I'm wondering if I had custom label files for each of them that I assigned based on which client I was working for. Sounds like something I would have done if it were available...
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