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Post by connor on Sept 1, 2021 19:56:44 GMT -6
Here is full unedited context of the conversation I had with Rob in my server about the ATC amplifier, before he knew that the OP (seller) had made the situation public. He has since deleted many of the messages before being banned. imgur.com/a/69XSwOrYou be the judge.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,971
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Post by ericn on Sept 1, 2021 20:30:44 GMT -6
While I am sure outing Rob the audio fool feels good we all know he will just set up a new account under a different name. Sucks but that’s how it goes. As far as the mess, well that could be my place on any given day😳. Now it would be hilarious, well not for Nick, if we were to find out the guy was using those Switchcraft RCA/XLR adapters that come unwired.
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Post by enlav on Sept 2, 2021 8:20:42 GMT -6
Here is full unedited context of the conversation I had with Rob in my server about the ATC amplifier, before he knew that the OP (seller) had made the situation public. He has since deleted many of the messages before being banned. Wow, thanks for taking the time to not only archive all of this but also for sticking up for seller and the integrity of doing aftermarket (is that the term?) business.
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Post by teejay on Sept 2, 2021 8:39:46 GMT -6
I also really considered having a tech declare this thing totaled when I got it so I could get my money back too, but then what would that make me? I'm an honest guy, and we are hard to come by sometimes in this industry. A few of you have hired me for work and I never want people to question my integrity. I did report back to Reverb that it is in perfect working order, and asked what the next steps are. It's often difficult to be the person of integrity in this world we live in today. It feels like the term "Nice guys finish last." can apply to us many times over. Those of us who are of the same mindset as you, who choose character over self-service, and do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, understand and appreciate how you are handling this. Stay true to who you are, and you'll have no regrets. As Glen Campbell said, "Theres no pillow as soft as a clear conscience."
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 2, 2021 10:02:00 GMT -6
I also really considered having a tech declare this thing totaled when I got it so I could get my money back too, but then what would that make me? I'm an honest guy, and we are hard to come by sometimes in this industry. A few of you have hired me for work and I never want people to question my integrity. I did report back to Reverb that it is in perfect working order, and asked what the next steps are. It's often difficult to be the person of integrity in this world we live in today. It feels like the term "Nice guys finish last." can apply to us many times over. Those of us who are of the same mindset as you, who choose character over self-service, and do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, understand and appreciate how you are handling this. Stay true to who you are, and you'll have no regrets. As Glen Campbell said, "Theres no pillow as soft as a clear conscience." Very true. Thanks for saying all that.
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 2, 2021 10:10:31 GMT -6
It's interesting, I plugged the ATC back in last night and I've been able to compare it to my cheaper class D stuff. At low listening levels the ATC is just worlds better sounding. Maybe not as accurate, but for sure prettier. At higher levels things get interesting. The ATC almost has like a kind of added harmonics/distortion? I don't really wanna use that word, but it's not as clear as the class D. Maybe it adds a glue of sorts. The Topping which is my super cheap amp adds a little something too. My other amp, the Behringer A800 which I picked up as a backup more studio friendly amp is actually really freaking good. At higher levels the bass comes to life and really is just super clear and punchy. Not as thick as the ATC, but very clean and clear. I could see using the ATC in a true hi-fi setup if I was gonna keep it, which I'm not, but the Behringer is actually really great with these speaker for mixing/critical listening. It also has more power than the ATC. Anyway, I'm digressing form the topic here. Should hear back from Reverb Support today and I'll report back for all those who are interested. This has been a great thread, and I totally appreciate everyone's input.
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 2, 2021 10:28:46 GMT -6
Remind me what speakers you're using this amp with?
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 2, 2021 10:49:16 GMT -6
The ATC SCM12's
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2021 11:19:14 GMT -6
It's interesting, I plugged the ATC back in last night and I've been able to compare it to my cheaper class D stuff. At low listening levels the ATC is just worlds better sounding. Maybe not as accurate, but for sure prettier. At higher levels things get interesting. The ATC almost has like a kind of added harmonics/distortion? I don't really wanna use that word, but it's not as clear as the class D. Maybe it adds a glue of sorts. The Topping which is my super cheap amp adds a little something too. My other amp, the Behringer A800 which I picked up as a backup more studio friendly amp is actually really freaking good. At higher levels the bass comes to life and really is just super clear and punchy. Not as thick as the ATC, but very clean and clear. I could see using the ATC in a true hi-fi setup if I was gonna keep it, which I'm not, but the Behringer is actually really great with these speaker for mixing/critical listening. It also has more power than the ATC. Anyway, I'm digressing form the topic here. Should hear back from Reverb Support today and I'll report back for all those who are interested. This has been a great thread, and I totally appreciate everyone's input. It might be the opposite. Usually cheaper amps strip things out and higher end amps are cleaner (Bryston) or add some euphony (McIntosh, Pass) while still being more detailed than cheap stuff. If your atc amp was the p1, you’re probably just pushing the amp at higher levels with inefficient speakers, which explains the distortion. P2 is a monster amp which ATC reccs themselves for higher levels and better bass. Just insane $$$$
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Post by howie on Sept 2, 2021 12:32:02 GMT -6
So far I've been lucky with Reverb - with my 30 sales - or buys - since 2017. Not the slightest hassle. The fees have gone up, though.
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 2, 2021 13:13:29 GMT -6
It's interesting, I plugged the ATC back in last night and I've been able to compare it to my cheaper class D stuff. At low listening levels the ATC is just worlds better sounding. Maybe not as accurate, but for sure prettier. At higher levels things get interesting. The ATC almost has like a kind of added harmonics/distortion? I don't really wanna use that word, but it's not as clear as the class D. Maybe it adds a glue of sorts. The Topping which is my super cheap amp adds a little something too. My other amp, the Behringer A800 which I picked up as a backup more studio friendly amp is actually really freaking good. At higher levels the bass comes to life and really is just super clear and punchy. Not as thick as the ATC, but very clean and clear. I could see using the ATC in a true hi-fi setup if I was gonna keep it, which I'm not, but the Behringer is actually really great with these speaker for mixing/critical listening. It also has more power than the ATC. Anyway, I'm digressing form the topic here. Should hear back from Reverb Support today and I'll report back for all those who are interested. This has been a great thread, and I totally appreciate everyone's input. It might be the opposite. Usually cheaper amps strip things out and higher end amps are cleaner (Bryston) or add some euphony (McIntosh, Pass) while still being more detailed than cheap stuff. If your atc amp was the p1, you’re probably just pushing the amp at higher levels with inefficient speakers, which explains the distortion. P2 is a monster amp which ATC reccs themselves for higher levels and better bass. Just insane $$$$ I can’t imagine how heavy either. The P1 is 44 lbs! It’s heavier than my guitar amp.
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 2, 2021 17:29:37 GMT -6
Ok, so reverb says I have 14 days to refund this guy since the amp is working, but I can also claim a 350 dollar repair credit to cover any damage it may have incurred along with any loss I’ll take on a resale. Which is kinda BS because that’s about what I paid between reverb and safe shipping fees.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 2, 2021 17:38:11 GMT -6
And what if you don’t ? If the amp is working what is the basis of him returning it ?
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Post by svart on Sept 2, 2021 17:38:46 GMT -6
Ok, so reverb says I have 14 days to refund this guy since the amp is working, but I can also claim a 350 dollar repair credit to cover any damage it may have incurred along with any loss I’ll take on a resale. Which is kinda BS because that’s about what I paid between reverb and safe shipping fees. At least you'll somewhat break even and not get totally screwed out of the amp and the money.
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Post by ragan on Sept 2, 2021 18:01:15 GMT -6
Yeah I don’t get it. His whole return claim was that it didn’t work. It works. I know Reverb skews towards the buyers but what is their claimed justification for you having to refund a working piece of gear?
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Post by tkaitkai on Sept 2, 2021 18:06:03 GMT -6
If the amp is working what is the basis of him returning it ? This is what blows my mind. I mean yeah, if the amp is working, I guess it would be good karma to refund him, but how on god's green earth does Reverb justify this kind of bullshit? The dude bought an item as-is, falsely claimed it to be broken, and you just received it back in perfect working order. Reverb should honor the terms of an as-is sale and make this doofus keep the fucking amp. God, what a loser. But either way, I commend you for being so patient through this whole process. I would have lost my shit on day one.
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 2, 2021 18:09:53 GMT -6
Yeah I don’t get it. His whole return claim was that it didn’t work. It works. I know Reverb skews towards the buyers but what is their claimed justification for you having to refund a working piece of gear? I realllllllly tried to get their with the reverb mediator guy, but he just ignored these questions. I could probably keep pushing it, but at this point, I just wanna get whatever money they are offering and re-list the thing. Actually, I’m gonna try and sell it privately that way reverb can’t make any more money off of this thing and I keep the profit. Anyone here on real gear, if you’re interested I can sell this thing for 2 grand. It sounds beautiful and new now they are 3500 bux.
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 2, 2021 18:12:22 GMT -6
If the amp is working what is the basis of him returning it ? This is what blows my mind. I mean yeah, if the amp is working, I guess it would be good karma to refund him, but how on god's green earth does Reverb justify this kind of bullshit? The dude bought an item as-is, falsely claimed it to be broken, and you just received it back in perfect working order. Reverb should honor the terms of an as-is sale and make this doofus keep the fucking amp. God, what a loser. But either way, I commend you for being so patient through this whole process. I would have lost my shit on day one. I wasn’t patient with the safe shipping claims guy. Made sure he knew I was pissed. But, they’re so numb to that stuff. Just following protocol sir, sorry for your troubles. The video clearly shows something wrong with the amp. Please refund the money upon return to you.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 2, 2021 18:13:00 GMT -6
Exactly, the buyer bought the item, returned it, falsely claiming it was not working , when it returned working, so there is no basis for the return and Reverb is not holding the buyer to his commitment.
All completely illogical , as the item is legally the buyer’s once paid for and received.
I don’t understand how Reverb’s position of the seller being obligated to accept the item back has any legal basis.
It doesn’t belong to the seller anymore ?
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 2, 2021 18:34:25 GMT -6
The problem is I can’t have a conversation with this mediator guy. There is literally like a 24-36 hour space between responses. It’s awful. Maybe I’ll issue the refund and cancel my card right after. Then play dumb just like the buyer.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 2, 2021 18:41:49 GMT -6
The problem is I can’t have a conversation with this mediator guy. There is literally like a 24-36 hour space between responses. It’s awful. Maybe I’ll issue the refund and cancel my card right after. Then play dumb just like the buyer. I actually spent about two hours on the phone to a Reverb mediator from Australia. About 1.5 hours was on hold. Complete waste of time. I actually began to wonder if I was in the middle of a Monty Python sketch.
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 2, 2021 18:50:54 GMT -6
The problem is I can’t have a conversation with this mediator guy. There is literally like a 24-36 hour space between responses. It’s awful. Maybe I’ll issue the refund and cancel my card right after. Then play dumb just like the buyer. I actually spent about two hours on the phone to a Reverb mediator from Australia. About 1.5 hours was on hold. Complete waste of time. I actually began to wonder if I was in the middle of a Monty Python sketch. I wish I could still talk to someone on the phone. That part of the business is done.
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Post by jmoose on Sept 2, 2021 19:02:17 GMT -6
Ok, so reverb says I have 14 days to refund this guy since the amp is working, but I can also claim a 350 dollar repair credit to cover any damage it may have incurred along with any loss I’ll take on a resale. Which is kinda BS because that’s about what I paid between reverb and safe shipping fees. Like I offered on the phone if you need someone, a 3rd party tech to look it over and write something up on letterhead... give you a receipt or whatever to grease the wheels for reverb just say the word. Personally? With loose screws in the lid I'd want to open it up and see if anything was obviously tampered with but that's just me. There's no good reason for screws to work loose in shipping... Means Mr rental dude either popped the top or if he didn't & they did work loose in shipping? That means it got dropped or bounced around. Neither gives warm fuzzies.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 2, 2021 19:51:36 GMT -6
I actually spent about two hours on the phone to a Reverb mediator from Australia. About 1.5 hours was on hold. Complete waste of time. I actually began to wonder if I was in the middle of a Monty Python sketch. I wish I could still talk to someone on the phone. That part of the business is done. My issue was not with the seller but with Reverb itself. Within seconds of my purchase I received a message from Reverb telling me that my transaction had been canceled due to ‘Suspicious Activity’. However Reverb canceled the transaction AFTER the $2.5k left my account. So I was out $2.5k, locked out of any further actions and was given no further explanation. The seller was expecting to see the payment come through and now my payment had disappeared into Reverb’s system and then the bullshit to try and find out what had happened and how to get my money back really began.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,971
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Post by ericn on Sept 2, 2021 21:20:42 GMT -6
The problem is I can’t have a conversation with this mediator guy. There is literally like a 24-36 hour space between responses. It’s awful. Maybe I’ll issue the refund and cancel my card right after. Then play dumb just like the buyer. Nick careful After a couple of conversations Reverb will probably send a nasty letter and then send it to collections. The fact is unless your a trust fund baby ( if so adopt me) your screwed. Like so many many things it’s not really about if your in the right it’s about what Reverb judges to be right. I am sure if BradD and I went through the rules we could probably find something with his law degree and my years of dealing with this BS, but you would still need to find a lawyer to fight it paying by the hour and then find out there is an arbitration clause and then your lawyer is useless because the user agreement sets the court of jurisdiction. I’m sorry bro but your boned! At least you have a working amp, you learned an expensive lesson. Unless we all decide to give Nick a couple of bucks because he ended up bearing the cost of this lesson he is truly boned.
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