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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 11, 2021 18:52:02 GMT -6
Oh man, reading your post.. yeah.. I wouldn’t worry too much about taking too long getting monitoring setup and the right sound. I always plan extra time for that if possible, because if you get the talent comfortable and mic placement just right, it will hopefully save 3x the work in editing. And I hate editing. I think it’s normal to take a while, tell the talent to have a break. I’ve worked with a guy who was super frustrating cause he’d have you sitting there 30 minutes+ thinking the red light was coming any second. Not my way to do things, imo. Good thing is I have tons of experience on the other side of the desk so to speak. So yeah… much better to say “dammit, I gotta reroute a couple things” than have someone sitting there. But yeah, better still to have it right ahead of time. Which I thought I did!
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Post by yotonic on May 11, 2021 19:16:48 GMT -6
I would stick to the SM7 for your voice. Moving to a condenser won't sound better and it will pick up more mouth noise. You are fortunate to have one of those voices perfectly suited for the SM7. There are a bunch of singers like that who it's a perfect match for; Ray Lamontagne, Brandon Boyd from incubus, too many to remember. I think the beauty of the SM7 on the right voice is that as a dynamic it filters out all the mouth noise a condenser exaggerates and leaves your vocal fry right in the sweet spot. I suspect after a long journey through condensers you will come back to these recordings and say "I like the way my voice sounds here". Lucky you.
In my experience the U47 variants have the most similar frequency curve to the SM7. But don't underestimate the vintage U87, it's a different animal than the modern U87 and killer on midrange for a register like yours, Jackson Browne and just about every great singer in the 70s cut epic tracks on them. For your voice SM7, Flea U47 for certain tracks and you can use it on some instruments and as a room mic, vintage U87, great on other tracks and you can use it on acoustic guitar, and even upright piano. Those mics seem to me to fit your voice, and writing style.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 11, 2021 19:54:59 GMT -6
I would stick to the SM7 for your voice. Moving to a condenser won't sound better and it will pick up more mouth noise. You are fortunate to have one of those voices perfectly suited for the SM7. There are a bunch of singers like that who it's a perfect match for; Ray Lamontagne, Brandon Boyd from incubus, too many to remember. I think the beauty of the SM7 on the right voice is that as a dynamic it filters out all the mouth noise a condenser exaggerates and leaves your vocal fry right in the sweet spot. I suspect after a long journey through condensers you will come back to these recordings and say "I like the way my voice sounds here". Lucky you. In my experience the U47 variants have the most similar frequency curve to the SM7. But don't underestimate the vintage U87, it's a different animal than the modern U87 and killer on midrange for a register like yours, Jackson Browne and just about every great singer in the 70s cut epic tracks on them. For your voice SM7, Flea U47 for certain tracks and you can use it on some instruments and as a room mic, vintage U87, great on other tracks and you can use it on acoustic guitar, and even upright piano. Those mics seem to me to fit your voice, and writing style. Thanks for listening closely and giving great feedback. That's kind of my thinking. If the SM7 works then something warmer like a U47 or U48 type mic could be great. You're right that I may just end up back where I started and, to be fair, I'm not ditching the SM7 by any means. Love that mic. I leave it set up and plugged in at all times right above my keyboards. And on my last record I shot out everything from a '60s era u67 to a vintage 414 to what have you and still ended up with the SM7 for 8/10 songs. Didn't think twice about it. It's quite possible that the U87s I've sung through just weren't "there". I've certainly heard that they can vary, not surprising due to age. I've played vintage guitars that were "meh" and then the same guitar of the same year that is "wow". Early Strats come to mind. Some are like, what's the big deal? Others are like... ok, yeah I get it. I'm definitely a dynamic mic type guy in general. I love the M88 on my voice too. But there are some songs where the capture of a condenser is what you want and I don't have anything that does that in a way that gets it sounding good going in as they say.
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Post by notneeson on May 11, 2021 21:54:32 GMT -6
Your vocals sound pretty great to me. Thanks but keep in mind, the full band tracks were done in a different studio. I think I'm using an SM7B on pretty much everything on the Soundcloud link. There were some other things thrown at me which I honestly can't remember. All I remember is the U87 was not for my voice, that's for sure. On the Spotify stuff your guess is as good as mine. Those were pretty late night sessions and I was just singing into whatever they put in front of me. Some of the mics were silver, I remember that much. So if you hear drums, it's not me recording it on those links. I missed that 87s aren’t working for you. You have any time on an RE20? I have found it a little better than an SM7 on some, but not all voices. I own a WA47, I’m sure the Signal Arts is better, but the Warm works really well on some folks.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 11, 2021 22:02:30 GMT -6
Thanks but keep in mind, the full band tracks were done in a different studio. I think I'm using an SM7B on pretty much everything on the Soundcloud link. There were some other things thrown at me which I honestly can't remember. All I remember is the U87 was not for my voice, that's for sure. On the Spotify stuff your guess is as good as mine. Those were pretty late night sessions and I was just singing into whatever they put in front of me. Some of the mics were silver, I remember that much. So if you hear drums, it's not me recording it on those links. I missed that 87s aren’t working for you. You have any time on an RE20? I have found it a little better than an SM7 on some, but not all voices. I own a WA47, I’m sure the Signal Arts is better, but the Warm works really well on some folks. For whatever reason I haven't ever tried a RE20. Maybe I should borrow one from a friend, pretty much every songwriter I know in town has one. I'm kind of a dynamic mic lover so sort of odd that I've never tried one. On the WA47, isn't the Signal Arts guy the same guy who designed that one? I have a few friends that love the Warm Audio mics, seems like you're getting a lot for the dough.
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Post by ragan on May 11, 2021 22:07:25 GMT -6
Your voice does sound great on the SM7. If you're interested in other dynamics, the king for me is the Senn 441. I always stick it up along with a MK67 and I pick the 441 plenty of times. It's a desert islander for me.
Great tunes and voice! Engaging and interesting, two terms I don't throw around.
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Post by srb on May 11, 2021 22:17:40 GMT -6
I find a 1/2 hour to an hour spent soldering a great way to tune out the world . Great way to relieve stress. Although the cat did manage to knock a mask onto the hotiron, just a very small fire. Get your Zen on and solder for fun and expense deferment (and often reasonable savings). Keep a fire extinguisher handy...just because. You can make exactly what you want at at least the cost of buying pre-made. I started making my own cables 15 years ago and haven't looked back. You can use the good stuff.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 11, 2021 22:44:31 GMT -6
Your voice does sound great on the SM7. If you're interested in other dynamics, the king for me is the Senn 441. I always stick it up along with a MK67 and I pick the 441 plenty of times. It's a desert islander for me. Great tunes and voice! Engaging and interesting, two terms I don't throw around. Much appreciated. This is pretty encouraging actually to hear these comments and others. I've been sort of on hiatus with my own stuff for a variety of reasons. Getting set to release the record that's on a few of the sound cloud clips (the full band ones) just to get it off my chest so I can move on to other things. I do like the 441. Just hard to see when I would like that more than the SM7 on my own vocals. But I've never owned one. I'll end up with a few at some point I'm sure. Every few months I think about buying one and decide to save up for the "big" one instead.
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Post by ragan on May 11, 2021 22:48:25 GMT -6
Your voice does sound great on the SM7. If you're interested in other dynamics, the king for me is the Senn 441. I always stick it up along with a MK67 and I pick the 441 plenty of times. It's a desert islander for me. Great tunes and voice! Engaging and interesting, two terms I don't throw around. Much appreciated. This is pretty encouraging actually to hear these comments and others. I've been sort of on hiatus with my own stuff for a variety of reasons. Getting set to release the record that's on a few of the sound cloud clips (the full band ones) just to get it off my chest so I can move on to other things. I do like the 441. Just hard to see when I would like that more than the SM7 on my own vocals. But I've never owned one. I'll end up with a few at some point I'm sure. Every few months I think about buying one and decide to save up for the "big" one instead. Yeah I mean I see no reason for you to get a 441 when the SM7 sounds great on you and you like it. Just if you're going on a dynamic mic collecting spree. For additional dynamic mic perspective, I've got an RE20 too and I've never really loved it. The one thing I really like it for is a sort of crotch mic (batter head and snare underside sort of) on a drum kit. But for general purpose, despite it's sterling reputation among dynamics, I've just never loved it.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 11, 2021 22:52:46 GMT -6
Much appreciated. This is pretty encouraging actually to hear these comments and others. I've been sort of on hiatus with my own stuff for a variety of reasons. Getting set to release the record that's on a few of the sound cloud clips (the full band ones) just to get it off my chest so I can move on to other things. I do like the 441. Just hard to see when I would like that more than the SM7 on my own vocals. But I've never owned one. I'll end up with a few at some point I'm sure. Every few months I think about buying one and decide to save up for the "big" one instead. Yeah I mean I see no reason for you to get a 441 when the SM7 sounds great on you and you like it. Just if you're going on a dynamic mic collecting spree. For additional dynamic mic perspective, I've got an RE20 too and I've never really loved it. The one thing I really like it for is a sort of crotch mic (batter head and snare underside sort of) on a drum kit. But for general purpose, despite it's sterling reputation among dynamics, I've just never loved it. I kind of have a Beatles vs Stones feeling on the RE20 and have never given it a chance. All my friends who have it seem to crap on the SM7B and I love the SM7B so it makes me not like the RE20. Dumb I know. But I also talk to my microphones and basically treat them like small pets. I wouldn't want the SM7B to think I'm unfaithful. It gets lonely up in this room. haha
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Post by Guitar on May 12, 2021 5:10:22 GMT -6
I can give some very brief feedback on what I think of as the "big four." To my voice only, and several others I've recorded, the SM7B is the best, the ultimate. You have one so I'll stop here. The RE20 has more of a "nose" or a "point" on the top end, so on singers that have that in their voice, I tracked one, it's the wrong mic. I think it would be wrong on you, based on the sound clips. MD441 might work because, at least the one I had, can be a bit dark smooth, velvety, might smooth things out. For that reason it's not flattering on a darker voice (like mine.) I had good luck with it on a female vocal. M88TG is another good one, but it also has a bright presence on the top, which may or may not always be flattering, and it tends to P-pop more than the others. Some people love it but I just never loved it for voice. What I do love it on are any kind of low end source, any kind of drum close mic, bass cabinets, etc, it's spectacular. I'd buy 4 of these before buying 4 MD421.
I would buy a big dog tube condenser just to be your friend, just to have that experience. It's a new world of sound if you haven't been there yet. You can always sell it in a year or two if you need other things. I sold my Peluso after 7 or 8 years to buy a Panasonic GH4 and some lenses, to start a new hobby, but I learned a lot from it and it was one of the most favored mics in my collection. Not just for my own voice but for 80% of the other singers I was tracking at the time.
251 style mic, is my new daydream believer, but that's a different animal. Hard to go wrong with either style, do you like souffle or chocolate cake.
The SM7B sits in the case now but I do use it sometimes. Subjectively it's a tiny bit smaller in the mix, but it absolutely works with no complaints. Sort of the friend that's always there for you when you need them.
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Post by notneeson on May 12, 2021 8:38:33 GMT -6
I missed that 87s aren’t working for you. You have any time on an RE20? I have found it a little better than an SM7 on some, but not all voices. I own a WA47, I’m sure the Signal Arts is better, but the Warm works really well on some folks. For whatever reason I haven't ever tried a RE20. Maybe I should borrow one from a friend, pretty much every songwriter I know in town has one. I'm kind of a dynamic mic lover so sort of odd that I've never tried one. On the WA47, isn't the Signal Arts guy the same guy who designed that one? I have a few friends that love the Warm Audio mics, seems like you're getting a lot for the dough. Yeah exactly, Chad a Signal Arts could tell you more and has commented on some choices on the Warm he felt weren’t the right way to go. That said, the WA47 is worth a listen in my opinion. And for the record, I own an RE20 and have tracked as much if not more with various SM7s and I think they’re both great. It’s not binary at all for me.
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Post by Guitar on May 12, 2021 9:25:31 GMT -6
I've had a lot of good success with the RE20 as well, should have mentioned that. I liked it on my voice, another baritone voice singer, on acoustic guitar for a different kind of sound, anything bass related, kick, bass cabinet. Really articulate on a bass cabinet. works on a guitar cab also. I just didn't find it as widely versatile on singers specifically, compared to the SM7B, by some relatively small amount maybe.
I do find the RE20 much more widely usable on instruments, than the SM7B, on the other hand, so I might buy one again for that reason. I've never had a ton of luck with the SM7B pointed at things that don't sing but I realize this is completely subjective and I haven't tried it on hi hat yet, since I've never miked a hi hat in my life.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 12, 2021 9:45:06 GMT -6
I can give some very brief feedback on what I think of as the "big four." To my voice only, and several others I've recorded, the SM7B is the best, the ultimate. You have one so I'll stop here. The RE20 has more of a "nose" or a "point" on the top end, so on singers that have that in their voice, I tracked one, it's the wrong mic. I think it would be wrong on you, based on the sound clips. MD441 might work because, at least the one I had, can be a bit dark smooth, velvety, might smooth things out. For that reason it's not flattering on a darker voice (like mine.) I had good luck with it on a female vocal. M88TG is another good one, but it also has a bright presence on the top, which may or may not always be flattering, and it tends to P-pop more than the others. Some people love it but I just never loved it for voice. What I do love it on are any kind of low end source, any kind of drum close mic, bass cabinets, etc, it's spectacular. I'd buy 4 of these before buying 4 MD421. I would buy a big dog tube condenser just to be your friend, just to have that experience. It's a new world of sound if you haven't been there yet. You can always sell it in a year or two if you need other things. I sold my Peluso after 7 or 8 years to buy a Panasonic GH4 and some lenses, to start a new hobby, but I learned a lot from it and it was one of the most favored mics in my collection. Not just for my own voice but for 80% of the other singers I was tracking at the time. 251 style mic, is my new daydream believer, but that's a different animal. Hard to go wrong with either style, do you like souffle or chocolate cake. The SM7B sits in the case now but I do use it sometimes. Subjectively it's a tiny bit smaller in the mix, but it absolutely works with no complaints. Sort of the friend that's always there for you when you need them. I love the M88. Picked up a mint model from the 70's and I'm using it on kick a lot and also where I need a vocal mic with decent rejection but the SM7 isn't working. I.e. singer/songwriter tracking live. Used it for some scratch vocals that were like... "wait, why are these scratch again?" I will probably always use the SM7 for denser mixes of my own music. And I like wild, dense mixes. But it doesn't work as well (works, but not as well) on really sparse stuff that I like to do as well. I really want something big and fat to fill the space when it's just me and a piano or guitar doing a Tom Waits thing or something.
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Post by Guitar on May 12, 2021 9:49:17 GMT -6
Great mic! Kevin Barnes, singer of Of Montreal uses one as nearly his only microphone, and for all vocals. I think Cherry Peel, maybe every single instrument was the M88TG if I remember correctly. That was a big buying point for me, I wish I had 4 or 5 of them. *chefs kiss* on kick for me too.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 12, 2021 9:56:13 GMT -6
I've had a lot of good success with the RE20 as well, should have mentioned that. I liked it on my voice, another baritone voice singer, on acoustic guitar for a different kind of sound, anything bass related, kick, bass cabinet. Really articulate on a bass cabinet. works on a guitar cab also. I just didn't find it as widely versatile on singers specifically, compared to the SM7B, by some relatively small amount maybe. I do find the RE20 much more widely usable on instruments, than the SM7B, on the other hand, so I might buy one again for that reason. I've never had a ton of luck with the SM7B pointed at things that don't sing but I realize this is completely subjective and I haven't tried it on hi hat yet, since I've never miked a hi hat in my life. Great argument for the RE20. I have also never really found much use for the SM7B outside of vocals and horns. And even horns have been taken over by the m160 for me (easiest thing in the world if you've got a player with nice articulation and a good sounding instrument, just point the m160 at it and be done as long as you like darker tones as I do... this after years of struggling to get good horn sounds). But next on my list for my "darker" mics is a second m160. It's not cheap so it'll be a ways away but man I just love that thing on everything and I really want to try it as a pair of drum overheads. I've been doing Recorder Man with m160 and 57 for overheads (don't judge, I like old school sounds!), really want to do that with a second m160.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 12, 2021 10:00:55 GMT -6
For whatever reason I haven't ever tried a RE20. Maybe I should borrow one from a friend, pretty much every songwriter I know in town has one. I'm kind of a dynamic mic lover so sort of odd that I've never tried one. On the WA47, isn't the Signal Arts guy the same guy who designed that one? I have a few friends that love the Warm Audio mics, seems like you're getting a lot for the dough. Yeah exactly, Chad a Signal Arts could tell you more and has commented on some choices on the Warm he felt weren’t the right way to go. That said, the WA47 is worth a listen in my opinion. And for the record, I own an RE20 and have tracked as much if not more with various SM7s and I think they’re both great. It’s not binary at all for me. Good advice on the WA47. I have a friend who has one here in Austin but I can't remember who. Maybe I can get my hands on it. I've decided on the SAE Premium 48 because I want the figure 8 pattern... how cool would it be to get the WA47 as well and pair those two up for m/s. Close your eyes and you're in Columbia Studio B, pretty sure I hear Paul Simon warming up his voice in the hallway.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 12, 2021 10:19:39 GMT -6
Yeah exactly, Chad a Signal Arts could tell you more and has commented on some choices on the Warm he felt weren’t the right way to go. That said, the WA47 is worth a listen in my opinion. And for the record, I own an RE20 and have tracked as much if not more with various SM7s and I think they’re both great. It’s not binary at all for me. Good advice on the WA47. I have a friend who has one here in Austin but I can't remember who. Maybe I can get my hands on it. I've decided on the SAE Premium 48 because I want the figure 8 pattern... how cool would it be to get the WA47 as well and pair those two up for m/s. Close your eyes and you're in Columbia Studio B, pretty sure I hear Paul Simon warming up his voice in the hallway. That leaves and extra G to spend on a Weight Tank Comp. You'll be glad you did.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 12, 2021 11:20:50 GMT -6
Good advice on the WA47. I have a friend who has one here in Austin but I can't remember who. Maybe I can get my hands on it. I've decided on the SAE Premium 48 because I want the figure 8 pattern... how cool would it be to get the WA47 as well and pair those two up for m/s. Close your eyes and you're in Columbia Studio B, pretty sure I hear Paul Simon warming up his voice in the hallway. That leaves and extra G to spend on a Weight Tank Comp. You'll be glad you did. I think I might have found one of these from a French site. You would pick this over one of the Audioscape offerings? Like an LA2A type or a Pultec EQ type?
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 12, 2021 12:29:06 GMT -6
That leaves and extra G to spend on a Weight Tank Comp. You'll be glad you did. I think I might have found one of these from a French site. You would pick this over one of the Audioscape offerings? Like an LA2A type or a Pultec EQ type? I don't have any Audioscape (yet), but pretty much every vocal coming from my studio goes through this (pretty heavily). Along with a bunch of single instruments. Fiddle, banjo mando, hand percussion, etc.
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Post by Tbone81 on May 12, 2021 12:47:31 GMT -6
I think I might have found one of these from a French site. You would pick this over one of the Audioscape offerings? Like an LA2A type or a Pultec EQ type? I don't have any Audioscape (yet), but pretty much every vocal coming from my studio goes through this (pretty heavily). Along with a bunch of single instruments. Fiddle, banjo mando, hand percussion, etc. Hey Jesse, how would you describe the WT on vocals? I have a V-Comp but have been thinking about a different style vari-mu for vocals, like a Locomotive 14B or WT Comp.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 12, 2021 12:49:59 GMT -6
I don't have any Audioscape (yet), but pretty much every vocal coming from my studio goes through this (pretty heavily). Along with a bunch of single instruments. Fiddle, banjo mando, hand percussion, etc. Hey Jesse, how would you describe the WT on vocals? I have a V-Comp but have been thinking about a different style vari-mu for vocals, like a Locomotive 14B or WT Comp. Weight Tank is warmer sounding than the 14b. I'll often run 10dB or more of reduction without the vocal folding down. The 14b is faster and can clamp harder, but it more sheeny pop sounding to me.
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Post by askomiko on May 12, 2021 13:18:27 GMT -6
I think I might have found one of these from a French site. You would pick this over one of the Audioscape offerings? Like an LA2A type or a Pultec EQ type? I don't have any Audioscape (yet), but pretty much every vocal coming from my studio goes through this (pretty heavily). Along with a bunch of single instruments. Fiddle, banjo mando, hand percussion, etc. Collateral damage: I've had WT sitting in the shopping cart for weeks now, after a few beers the impending weight of a weekend approaching and warmth of the first summer day melted my brain and now I've got one incoming.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 12, 2021 13:42:33 GMT -6
I don't have any Audioscape (yet), but pretty much every vocal coming from my studio goes through this (pretty heavily). Along with a bunch of single instruments. Fiddle, banjo mando, hand percussion, etc. Collateral damage: I've had WT sitting in the shopping cart for weeks now, after a few beers the impending weight of a weekend approaching and warmth of the first summer day melted my brain and now I've got one incoming. Wait a minute... where did you buy it from? I can't find one in stock?
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Post by askomiko on May 12, 2021 13:49:43 GMT -6
Floatingpointaudio in france.
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